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Couple Q's on PH

T

TimberPig

Active Member
Things are a little slow around here so I will throw this out.

Last year I put in a very small plot of Biologic Clover Plus, maybe 1/8th acre or so, in a clearing I made in the timber. The soil test done by FS, showed the PH to be 5.7. It showes the "buffer PH" to be 6.7.
My first question is which do I go by, 5.7 or 6.7, and what is the difference between the two PH ratings?

Second Q: The agronimist at FS advised to put down 150lbs of SuperCal each year for 3 years to bring the PH up. I put down 100lbs at planting in the spring, and another 50lbs in the fall.
SuperCal was stated to be a concentrated substitute for lime, recommended due to the fact that the plot is unreachable by anything but ATV. Lime recommendation was 500lbs/acre. What exactly is SuperCal, and does anybody use it in place of lime? (I know its a little late to be asking that question!)

The plot looks really nice after I mowed it several times to control weeds, and a light spraying of grass killer to control the grasses that came back after planting. It either was poast or similar to poast, not sure of the brand now. Only hunted the plot one night, due to its close proximity to a bedding area, and killed a big doe. I mostly planted it just to help keep deer on the property and as an experiment.
Thanks for any info.
 
Anybody??

Anybody know what exactly supercal is, and whether or not it is a concetrated substitute for lime as advertised? I just think it is odd that I have never read about Supercal in any posts dealing with lime, considering that lime is a problem for many people with hard to reach plots.

Thanks for any info.....
 
T.Pig,

The actual pH of your soil is 5.7. The buffer pH is a measure of your soils ability to resist change to pH. Some soils will resist more than others. They run a seperate test for this. It is measured by the soils deviation from the beginning value of 8.For example two soils with a pH of 5.7, one has a buffer of 7.2 and one with 7.6. The soil with a buffer of 7.2, deviated more from 8, and will require more lime than the one with 7.6 to bring the two soils' pH to the same ending pH level.

As for the SuperCal, it is actually gypsum. Calcium Sulphate. Like used in drywall. It is not the same as lime. Lime will raise your pH, by lowering acidity/toxicity. From my understanding, Supercal is normally used on already high pH soils to create a more friedly growing environment for the crop. It is definately not the same as lime. I believe one of my co-workers is doing some research on it in high pH soybean fields. I believe the product makers are claiming that is can have lime like effect. I will check in on this and get back to you.

If it were me, I would just make a few more trips with the four wheeler and put on the extra 350 lbs of lime. That way you know your pH will rise, and the lime will stay in your soil. Gypsum leaches down through the profile.
 
Thanks John Deere, I was starting to think I had asked one of those "too stupid to answer questions"!

I did put down two 40# bags of lime this spring, purchased from a local greenhouse for an overly high price of $6.50 a bag. I know that is not enough and am thinking about buying a 12v ATV spreader to help with these applications.

I appreciate the explaination of buffer ph, but I must admit I am still no less confused by it. I dont know if 5.7ph with a buffer of 6.7 is good or bad, or indifferent?

For what it is worth, the clover looks fantastic. It is a good 12" to 16" tall, dark green, and is showing signs of good usage with many nipped off stems. Trail cam photos show lots of deer, squirrels, rabbits, coons, and the occasional turkey are enjoying it.

Interestingly, it is a bottomland area along a stream, that my county soil survey book rates as "poor" (Ackmore-Colo soil type) for grasses and legumes under the "potential for habitat elements" section. I cant see how it could have done any better anywhere else and I am quite happy with how it turned out.
 
T.Pig,

I talked to my co worker today. He told me that if they sold you SuperCal SO4 it will have no liming effect. If instead it was SuperCal 98, it is a true lime. In fact a high quality and 4X cost lime. I bet the FS guy would have sold you the 98, so you should be in good shape. The SuperCal just probably cost you more.

As for pH

I believe that ISU recommnends a pH around 6.5 for most corn and soybean fields, around 6 for most grasses, and 7 for alfalfa. Your pH of 5.7 is low and you need lime. Adding the lime will help make soil bound nutrients more available and improve growing conditions. Your soil has a buffer of 6.7, and needed 500lbs of lime to bring the actual pH up to 6.5. If the same 5.7 pH soil had a buffer pH of 6.0, it would need maybe twice as much (1000 lbs) lime to raise the soil pH to 6.5.
To put it simply, a pH of 5.7 is low and needs lime. The closer the buffer pH to 0, the more lime(increased rate in lbs/acre) will be required to raise the pH regardless of the beginning pH. The closer the buffer pH is to 8, the lower rate(lbs /acre) will be required to raise you actual pH.Hope that helps you out. If you have any other questions, go to the ISU Agronomy website and do some reading. They have a lot of good info and recommendations.
 
Thanks again for the good info. I understood that 5.7 was too low, just didnt understand the whole buffer ph thing. It makes more sense now, but it looks like as long as you know the actual ph and the amount of lime needed to correct it the buffer ph rating is not as important to know.

I will have to check on which type of SuperCal it is, here again I was unaware there were more than one kind. Cost was not bad really, for pelletized product. I bought 150# SuperCal, and I think 100# of both P and K, and it was around $7 total. Much cheaper than $6.50 for a 40# bag of lime from the greenhouse. The lime I bought there I noticed looked identical to the SuperCal, brownish grey colored BB sized pellets.

Did your friend say what SuperCal SO4 is used for if not for raising ph?
 
Subject: Where to buy?

I saw in your post that you got a great price on the following and was hoping you could let me know the name number and location of where I can purchase. My email address is flsun@hotmail.com. Thank you very much

I bought 150# SuperCal, and I think 100# of both P and K, and it was around $7 total.
 
mcdowke, check your PM's.
By the way, the SuperCal that my FS sells is the 98G and its what I spread on my tiny clover plot. Works fine except for the dust storm when it comes out of the Bumper Buddy at 90mph! The clover has looked great for 2 years now, could use some 2-4DB though.
 
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