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Couple questions.

Bucksnbears

Bucksnbears

Well-Known Member
As for Clover in a foodplot. Why would Imperial sell their clover blend with a big percent being an annual?
I bought a bag a month ago and read the label.
I think like 40% was berseem which I believe is an annual?
For years, I've bought Ladino from JB Hunt company and it's always been fantastic but I was in a time crunch this spring and decided on a new/ small plot and just bought a bag at Scheels. Was really disappointed after reading the label.
It's coming in good now but I fear next spring it's gonna be thin being so much is an annual.
Input on this thought?

One more. This doesn't seem to get talked much about. Crop Oil.

How much importance do you guys have in it?
Is it herbicide selective or can it be mixed with all herbicides?

From what I've read about it, seems to be more important when dealing with grasses. True?
 
So the Berseem is actually a good thing imo on two fronts. It provides year 1 forage and acts as a nurse crop for the perennials.

What I have a.much bigger issue with is the 30% coating. It's listed as inert. Boooo.

Not needed if you plant clover on a time appropriate basis. It's a total money scam

We plant a very similar blend as Whitetail institute minus the 30% waste.
 
Berseem is also a way to cut their costs down in the blend as well.
I go through my clover blends often to see preferences. Crimson is another that’s really high on attraction & desirability. I will usually add that and I never leave out Alice white. Or reds. I usually mix it up with Alsike, balansa, berseem, ladino & a few others too. Lots of Diversity is a very good thing.
100% must use crop oil. Clethodim needs as much plant contact as possible to kill. Why u don’t wanna mow grass then spray. It needs to stick on a lot of the grass material to kill. So yes- crop oil is a MUST!
 

Sligh1,​

Why do you say Berseem keeps their costs down? It actually adds to the cost because they add it on top of what they need to give you for the given acreage. I had a food plot seed company for many years and I added Berseem as a cover crop because clover plots often don't thicken up until the second year. So the berseem gives people a lot better first year crop and deer love it, but it added a significant expense to my clover blend.

IowaBowHunter1983​

That inert coating is so high because they coat it with lime to make a little micro climate in the soil around each seed because they assume most hunters will have a pH on the low side.
 
october1 said:

Sligh1,​

Why do you say Berseem keeps their costs down? It actually adds to the cost because they add it on top of what they need to give you for the given acreage. I had a food plot seed company for many years and I added Berseem as a cover crop because clover plots often don't thicken up until the second year. So the berseem gives people a lot better first year crop and deer love it, but it added a significant expense to my clover blend.

IowaBowHunter1983​

That inert coating is so high because they coat it with lime to make a little micro climate in the soil around each seed because they assume most hunters will have a pH on the low side.
Click to expand...
This is a label from W.I. from a few years back. They call it a rainbond coating. It probably does help during they times its needed, but folks should just understand what they are paying for when comparing prices. It's not apples to apples.

We use Balansa as the annual component. splitting hairs with berseem.

Screenshot_20240609_083732_Gallery.jpg
 
october1 said:

Sligh1,​

Why do you say Berseem keeps their costs down? It actually adds to the cost because they add it on top of what they need to give you for the given acreage. I had a food plot seed company for many years and I added Berseem as a cover crop because clover plots often don't thicken up until the second year. So the berseem gives people a lot better first year crop and deer love it, but it added a significant expense to my clover blend.

IowaBowHunter1983​

That inert coating is so high because they coat it with lime to make a little micro climate in the soil around each seed because they assume most hunters will have a pH on the low side.
Click to expand...
This one is very simple margins in biz. They can drop the rates on the most expensive (whites) & buy berseem, usually (last I checked long ago) at very low prices. It’s kinda the same thing on why they do coatings & filler…. Cheap to add weight & margins go up. Now- the end result- it’s still great. Don’t misunderstand…. I like berseem. I probably like crimson & balansa better but …. Berseem gets up fast. I totally agree with everything u said. Seed coatings also do have some benefits. The smaller amount of white clovers can usually spread with stolons & reseeding themselves so it’s not that big of deal. No big deal … smart business blend. Smart $ maker. Splitting hairs on small plots with the cost. On big scale, I’d rather make my own “better” blend & get far more seed for the $. Very minor & if a guy is seeding “1 acre a year”…. I wouldn’t care a drop.
 
After seeing the label on that bag it looks like they must have dropped using any lime as a coating a while back (I'm also very unimpressed with that seed blend). I'm not sure how much their Rainbond coating would cost. When I was in the business those specialty coatings were expensive but they are so popular now it may be cheap.

Lately I have been thinking of getting back in the business in part because there are a lot of companies out there that aren't very good. There is so much more competition now though I'm not sure if I want to do it or not. Plus I no longer have land to do test plots on so it probably won't happen. If I do it though, depending on cost, I may have my seed brightly coated to make it a lot easier to get good coverage when broadcasting because you can see small seed like clover on the ground. For farmers I wouldn't be too worried about it, but most customers tend to be newbies or have little experiance.

I never cut my clover seeding rate to make more money (& I made very little money!). I gave a full rate needed for broadcasting and then added some berseem (Frosty when it came out) as extra so it cost me more and cut into my profits. Plus even though berseem is cheaper per pound you have to plant 4-5 times more lbs per acre so it's actually more expensive to add vs just a higher seeding rate of annuals. Many companies would give 3-4 lbs to plant an acre. I would give about 7.5 lbs an acre. Based on the whitetail institutes 8 lbs per acre seeding rate I'm thinking this is their general line of thought too....... I would have people send me pictures of clover that was way over crowded because they were so used to getting ripped off they would order double the acreage needed and put it all out.

Sligh1,
I find the Balansa interesting. Especially the cold tolerance, but not so much in it's apparent horizontal creeping nature. I will test it if I can find a place to do test plots & start a new company. What would you say the pro's & con's of Balansa vs Frosty berseem clover are?
 
I have probably 15 types of clover I’ve used regularly through out the years. I was going through clover fields to see which had the most pressure by clover type a few weeks ago. One walk through one field …. Crimson was probably #1, followed by Alice white. Time of year & so many other variables make this anectodal. Usually the mix has 1-2 annuals: crimson & either balansa or berseem. Then run 2 whites: Alice white & either ladino or kopu II. Alsike if any bit wetter ground. & 2-4 lbs of red. Absolutely a smoker combo. While I do all this silly business- I am sure a guy just doing ladino would be laughing at me saying “this is just fine!” ;)
 
Sligh1 said:
I have probably 15 types of clover I’ve used regularly through out the years. I was going through clover fields to see which had the most pressure by clover type a few weeks ago. One walk through one field …. Crimson was probably #1, followed by Alice white. Time of year & so many other variables make this anectodal. Usually the mix has 1-2 annuals: crimson & either balansa or berseem. Then run 2 whites: Alice white & either ladino or kopu II. Alsike if any bit wetter ground. & 2-4 lbs of red. Absolutely a smoker combo. While I do all this silly business- I am sure a guy just doing ladino would be laughing at me saying “this is just fine!” ;)
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lol You are real close to the mix I sold. It just depends on your exact variety of a few of those and I only used berseem as an annual. Strictly for a cover crop. And you are right, it was an absolute smoker combo. Especially with the specific varieties of a couple of those I used. Best mix possible IMHO, but having said that, if I only had one clover I could use for all situations I would use Alice. Ladino is a good one though.
 
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Sligh1 said:
I have probably 15 types of clover I’ve used regularly through out the years. I was going through clover fields to see which had the most pressure by clover type a few weeks ago. One walk through one field …. Crimson was probably #1, followed by Alice white. Time of year & so many other variables make this anectodal. Usually the mix has 1-2 annuals: crimson & either balansa or berseem. Then run 2 whites: Alice white & either ladino or kopu II. Alsike if any bit wetter ground. & 2-4 lbs of red. Absolutely a smoker combo. While I do all this silly business- I am sure a guy just doing ladino would be laughing at me saying “this is just fine!” ;)
Click to expand...

@Sligh1, you usually planting this in the fall? Does berseem overwinter alright?

october1 said:
lol You are real close to the mix I sold. It just depends on your exact variety of a few of those and I only used berseem as an annual. Strictly for a cover crop. And you are right, it was an absolute smoker combo. Especially with the specific varieties of a couple of those I used. Best mix possible IMHO, but having said that, if I only had one clover I could use for all situations I would use Alice. Ladino is a good one though.
Click to expand...

Curious what mix you had!
 
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