Cross Bows in Iowa....? I hope not

[Sligh1]

I appreciate both above comments and respect you both.
Let me ask you this, if you guys or anyone else (really this is for everyone else) hunt regular "by permission ground" over the past 10 years.... What's happened to your access in the last 10 years for ARCHERY SEASON? What has happened to the # of bowhunters in your area during archery season in the last 10 years??

What I'll say from my observation from about 8-10 counties and maybe 30 different "neighborhoods"..... I've seen access DWINDLE in the last 10 years. Lost countless farms. I see more treestands now than I ever did. I see more archery hunters now VS 10 years ago by a staggering amount. Why, I don't buy the "we're losing hunters" argument- MAYBE we're losing hunters across the country & that includes all sorts of game animals but deer hunters in Iowa - NO WAY. We are not losing deer hunters in Iowa UNLESS you're talking about guys who are saying "the hunting sucks, I'm not seeing any deer and I'm losing access" - that's where we are losing deer hunters!!!!! Our access has gone way way way down (please correct me if you haven't seen this in your area!!!). More bowhunters now than probably any time in my memory so we're not losing guys, sorry, we're not. We're losing access, yes. It will be far worse too if 40% more guys are out there in archery season.

 

[DannyBoy]

I see crossbows as a niche, just like muzzleloader and traditional archery. The MASSES use compounds or shotguns.

Compounds for the capable should not be used during archery season. Those not lucky enough to be physically capable of using compound or traditional tackle should absolutely be allowed to hunt during archery season with a crossbow. Aside from that, I'm perfectly fine allowing crossbows during muzzy but leave it at that.

I think allowing crossbows would stiffen competition on permission farms for sure, so that's my selfish reasoning. My logical reasoning is that they do provide an unfair advantage. You shoulder it like a gun, put the scope on the deer and pull the trigger and can do so with an extended range. Compound hunters with super state of the art equipment can squeak out another 10 or 20 yds beyond my comfortable range (40 yds) but only with tons of practice and perfect hunting scenarios to allow that far of an ethical shot. I've shot a crossbow once and was grouping around 4" at 60 yds with a shooting rail type rest. I couldn't dream of picking up my bow even for the first time practicing for the year, usually late spring of every year, and nailing 60 yd shots like that.

 

[bcuarcher]

I agree with Sligh. For me, it's not as much of an argument of whether it compares to the "purity" of archery, it's more about the number of hunters that would flood in to the first archery season and its affect on population and land access. Right as we speak i'm sure there are countless hunters in Iowa that only hunt during the gun seasons because they 1) don't know how to shoot a bow or don't know anybody who will teach them, or 2) don't have/want to take the time to learn to become proficient at shooting a bow. Allowing the use of crossbows for anybody during 1st archery season would allow ALL of those people who would love to hunt during the rut to easily flood into the season, which would result in the before mentioned problems with populations, deer/buck quality, and land access. I am all for allowing those with physical limitations to use crossbows, but allowing anybody to use them would lead to a downward spiral to the quality of hunting in Iowa.

 

[Droptines]

Has Pope & Young accepted crossbow kills in their record books?

 

[CurtisWalker]

I guess my only thought to add to this is does anyone know of any ground that doesn't get archery hunted anyway.

Nope we have 18 maybe more bowhunters in the four square miles maybe one square mile of that is actually hunted and contains timber... I'd hate to see what a 40% increase would do

 

[Sligh1]

The action I'm now taking is running for Iowa Senate, winning and then making sure a Bill passes called the "Stop messing with Iowa's deer seasons" Bill. A good buddy of mine will make sure he wins the Governor position & we have a majority in house & senate so this will pass- WE HAVE THIS COVERED! It will make sure we quit throwing all these frigin monkey wrenches in what is a good system & a delicate system that has many challenges already. if it's not broke, quit trying to fix it - like adding adding a late shed buck season. My Bill is gonna pass and all the lobbyists & special interest groups and groups who see $ figures are gonna have to go somewhere else!

Here's a flaw humans, Americans, Politicians and citizens NEVER figure out.... They can never look past what one action or law can do with the ripple effect, unintended consequences and all the negative side effects down the road. "Let's allow crossbows! Simple, done! Our Crossbow Lobbyist said it will bring 40% more bow hunters to the sport & out during archery season!! YES!!! IT PASSED, NOW LAW!!"........ NR draw gets flooded with 1k-2k more applicants (making that up, just a guess). NR's outrage and demand more tags or flood gates to open. Guys in droves across the state get fed up with too many bowhunters.... Leasing ramps up to unseen levels and access is denied to thousands. Little chunks where the "everyday guy" hunts gets piss pounded to levels never seen by droves of guys kicked off of leased farms and every little buck gets pounded, "hunting sucks". 5-6% of the state that's timbered ground, 5 years goes by and most is leased or bought by hunters trying to insulate themselves from the huge increase in pressure, killing and additional hunters. Maybe a group pushes to get shotgun season to start during mid November, why not?!?!? I mean, a lot of this is the tip of the ice burg, some may or may not happen & a lot will happen you don't even realize BUT... What i'm saying is, our politicians and voters often, if not the vast majority of the time - rarely think through the unintended consequences and always just try and showcase something as Rose colored when it really isn't and ultimately will hurt the masses while putting $ in the pockets of those that enacted the new laws or Bills. THINK & THINK HARD. IOWA IS DELICATE. OUR DEER RESOURCE IS DELICATE. ACCESS IS DELICATE & HURTING. THINK!

 

[loneranger]

Sorry guys but saying allowing another weapon would ruin what we have as Bow Hunters is a bit elitist . We bow hunters already have two months of hunting and more, and all of the rut to ourselves. Those involved with shotguns won't have CrossBow Drives. Ya still have to make blinds,plan your hunts,do scouting,,sit quiet for long periods of time,care about scent control, nothing like the Shotgun hunting. More and more people is the way society and population is going. More land eaten up by malls and suburbs. Less wild places. That is the trend. Move west is all I can say.

 

[bowmaker]

Another issue to consider in this increasing debate might be disallowing handguns from this late muzzle loader season. If you are concerned about a weapon with a legitimate effective range in actually hunting big game of 30 or 40 yards, what about the handguns that can be scoped and shoot and kill game at 100 or even 150 yards with cartriges like 44 mag or 454 casuell or 500 S&w. Don't these easy to carry and easy to shoot and easy to kill at extended ranges weapons also threaten our deer herd and thereby need to be elimated? Why do we complain about what other hunters do that is legal and try to inflect our personal standards to limit their enjoyment of hunting?

 

[Altiman94]

Allowing crossbows during archery season has nothing to do with more hunters. That's just a self serving interest to keep more of the pie to ourselves. The argument is more definition of archery and if they fit. Compound hunting is not an art, it's a science.

 

[Jdubs]

After reading the posts I have to side with Sligh's position. In PA we allowed crossbows 5 years ago. The bowhunting population doubled. The crossbow is a huge advantage over the bow, compound or traditional. I watched friends of mine who couldn't shoot an archery deer of any kind become successful three years running using a shouldered, cocked & locked, scope mounted weapon. Good for them but point is the crossbow is an absolute advantage. Lastly, residents here who argue access is an issue due to NR landowners and NR hunters will see the access challenge increase with added interest by R's and NR's. Be careful what you wish for. Crossbow companies, lobbies and politicians could care less about your, and your kids, hunting future.

 

[bowhuntinpacker]

When you can use crossbows in the Olympics as "archery" equipment or when you can show up at a IBO shoot and enter, or enter a buck in the record books without it having its own section it ain't archery. sorry it's that simple it's a game changer. Seen it first hand hate to see a great state like iowa fall with the rest.

Agree 100%

 

[Sligh1]

Man, I wish I could make the pro-crossbow folks go hunt the state of Michigan or Pennsylvania for a season. Earl is right about other states, most have found a million ways to make hunting suck and have those folks flock to states like Iowa. Why do we constantly want to do things that hurt the resource vs helping it? I mean, the likelihood we'd ever see a bill, for example, that would reduce our buck harvest to one buck VS a bill that would allow crossbows during archery is insane - we will likely never see the 1st example, likely will see the crossbow fight though. Almost all due to special interests, politicians & $. Before you jump on the crossbow wagon, go spend a season in MI or PA, it's an absolute joke, sorry, it is.

 

[Central Iowa]

"Crossbow companies, lobbies and politicians could care less about your, and your kids, hunting future."
Bingo!

 

[loneranger]

I moved here from MI. Main problem with MI is 9 million people not CrossBows. 800,000 gun hunters,,,400,000 bow hunters. Iowa has about 3 million residents. Also, a whole lot of MI is public land, where the human population concentrates. On private farmland as in the far south of MI, hunting is similar to Iowa. Private land managed right means good hunting. I may have made your argument. Less hunters=better hunting...but I think the overall state population plays the biggest role. I don't think hords of shotgun hunters, and people not formerly interested in hunting, would suddenly swarm into the CrossBow ranks. Abundant crop for food and private land makes Iowa better,,not to mention one of the biggest differences,,keeping guns out of the rut!

 

[Sligh1]

On private farmland as in the far south of MI, hunting is similar to Iowa. Private land managed right means good hunting. I may have made your argument. Less hunters=better hunting...but I think the overall state population plays the biggest role. I don't think hords of shotgun hunters, and people not formerly interested in hunting, would suddenly swarm into the CrossBow ranks. Abundant crop for food and private land makes Iowa better,,not to mention one of the biggest differences,,keeping guns out of the rut!

Come on now LR- I've spent my whole younger life hunting Southern MI farmlands, that statement is respectfully comedy!! It's a JOKE. I've hunted Van Buren, Kalamazoo & Jackson counties in MI for years and they are nothing even in the Galaxy VS iowa, not even close. Not pulling the wool over my eyes on that one!

I will, can, whatever, back up the claim (I'm 100% sure on this) that many crossbow lobbies in many states (MI was one of them) claim 40% more hunters, new hunters, blah blah blah will be "archery hunting" if they legalize crossbows. The crossbow wisely uses this to their advantage when they try and make the increased revenues of tag sales, crossbow sales, economic growth, etc attractive. More $ and about $ and they use that wisely & effectively to their lobbying advantage. So yes, more hunters, by a lot. Who on here has super low pressure bow hunting land all over?!?!? Can I come? Who on here hasn't lost countless chunks to leasing or been over-run by other bowhunters in the recent past, like last 10 years? We have tons of bowhunters and surely a heck of a lot more than a decade ago. Finding good bowhunting land with lower pressure is pretty frigin tough imo. Add "40%" or whatever out there, oh geesh.

"Keeping the guns out of the rut". Ya, back to the argument I was avoiding BUT I darn near think it would be "guns during the rut". Short range guns. Come on, that's all they are. Put to the shoulder, no drawing, look thru scope and pull the trigger. Look at youtube and look at the amount of guys who can put tiny groups at 50, 60 yards with a crossbow. That's about the same range that I was comfy with using my shotgun with free sights when I started hunting. Even if it was 30-40 yards, it's so close to just being a gun. At that point, how about we allow traditional muzzleloaders from Oct 1 to jan 10? Where's the line? Personally I think we've crossed the line before and now folks want to go screw it up again, never ending battle trying to protect a state resource constantly wanting to be pimped out for $.

 

[Jdubs]

The timing of the introduction of the crossbow is curious as well. PA introduced the crossbow 5 years ago when hunters began to voice their displeasure with the deer numbers and state management methods; which resulted in the decline of license sales and revenue. Enter the new weapon which helped replace lost hunters and added hunters to a new season they had never tried before. IA's herd reduction and now talk of the crossbow is several years behind PA's position, but very similar. It's a smoke and mirrors attempt to satisfy the FB, insurance companies, timber companies , equipment companies on one hand and resident hunters and DNR revenue goals on the other. The problem is the winner is the side willing to grease the pockets of the decision makers.

 

[bkcrrtnps]

Seems like your theroy is a little out there. Since when can you compare using a crossbow during archery, to allowing shotgun, rifle during the allowed archery season? You don't see group hunts during archery with people using crossbows. You will never see crossbows shooting out to 500 yards like you would with a rifle. I use a crossbow all of archery season and always will. I was granted the the right to use them with a lifetime permit from the Iowa dnr and it's going to soon be legal for everyone in Iowa to use a crossbow all of archery season. Never can you compare a gun or any sort to a crossbow.

You missed the entire point of Slighs comments!!!

 

[Sligh1]

I guess my only thought to add to this is does anyone know of any ground that doesn't get archery hunted anyway.

Let's get simplistic and SELFISH (YES, I SAID IT!!!) for a second. I know ground 400-500 acres that is owned by a guy and 2-3 people archery hunt it. Then, I know of sections dominated with 40's, 80's & 160 acre chunks - many having 5, 6, 10 guys bowhunting on and off on all of them, sections with 20 guys happen & I've seen it countless times. Which would you rather hunt?!?! If we're being honest, wouldn't everyone want to hunt an area with LESS PRESSURE? Why? Because it's more "natural" for hunting deer on natural movement, hunting a balanced age structure, having a chance at a mature buck, etc. Could that be a few valid reasons? Could it be that we see what "droves of hunters" do to an area? Like "DESTROY IT" in the sense of "shooting anything", over pressuring, making deer nocturnal, running them off to areas without the pressure, conflicts with other hunters, etc? Sorry guys, more people on a delicate resource isn't always a great answer. There's a lot of guys/gals that don't "care" about the resource the way you care about it. Why do you think there' s a large % of people that won't hunt public or perceive it as: overhunted, dangerous, crappy hunting, crowded, etc, etc? Why would we want to push our landscape towards the direction of "over-run" and not toward the direction of "natural with balanced amount of hunters"? It really is 2 clear directions. I guess my "SELFISH" point of view likes peace & quiet. I guess I got sick of hunter disputes on over-run ground. I got sick of ruined hunts, got sick of most the deer I passed getting pounded by the other 6 guys hunting the same little farm as me. (yes, I'll get bashed for that, ok, fine). I love peace & quiet, hunting deer in a natural quiet setting, doing all I can to help the habitat & neighborhood, not dealing with armies of other hunters and the chance at an older deer. That's me being selfish I guess.

 

[Hardwood11]

Something to consider in this debate. A crossbow is much easier to shoot out of a ground blind or box blind than a bow (longer distances as well)... Factor in Iowa and rutting bucks near food sources and you have an easier time--- harvesting a buck--- increases the odds. You will see more top end bucks shot, absolutely no doubt about it.

Plus with a scope, you will see crossbow guys have better shooting light in evening and in the morning. All factors in more bucks harvested.

 

[Fishbonker]

I hunt with both. I have a lifetime crossbow permit and have hunted both compound and crossbow. There is nothing wrong with using a crossbow. And the word bow both on crossbow and compound make it archery. I will hunt all season with either or no big deal to me. I say hunt with what makes your heart content.

Just to clarify, you use both archery equipment and a crossbow every year or just that you have used archery equipment in the past and now use a crossbow?