doublerack
Active Member
Your diagrams say it all Ghost.
Crossbow facts - Lay 'em on me.
- Thread starter The Wizard
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![26404-archer[1].gif](http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/26404-archer[1].gif)
T
Tom
Guest
Hey folks, with all due respect, you could also add a picture of a new compound bow and release next to the crossbow and point out that they both utilize the following: string activated launching system, arrow quiver, broadhead tipped fletched arrows, trigger activated release, etc... In fact, the business end of a crossbow, meaning the part that serves as the "projectile" functions exactly like the projectile from a longbow, recurve or compound.
Monsterbuck
Active Member
[ QUOTE ]
Here's what I've taken from this topic so far....
One school of thought is that with a crossbow you just “aim and shoot”. It is a weapon that can be loaded and "energized" indefinitely. People who follow this theory believe that a crossbow is more like a gun.
The other school of thought says that it isn’t much different than other archery gear. It’s still based on a fletched arrow being launched by a string through the use of energy stored in “limbs”. The effective range of a crossbow is similar to modern compound bows.
It does not seem like there is a clear cut winner here? Maybe that’s why we are all so emotional about this topic?
[/ QUOTE ]
That's about the best conclusion I can come up with too Wiz. You've done an excellent job of extracting the few actual facts given in all the preceeding posts. Well done.
I'm not above being selfish and saying I don't want anything added to my hunting seasons but I can't honestly say that I'm convinced that allowing crossbows during archery season will have susch a negative effect on game that some would imply. Regardless, I love bowhunting and since I wouldn't use a crossbow anyway unless I absolutely had to it's all just interesting discussion for me.
Here's what I've taken from this topic so far....
One school of thought is that with a crossbow you just “aim and shoot”. It is a weapon that can be loaded and "energized" indefinitely. People who follow this theory believe that a crossbow is more like a gun.
The other school of thought says that it isn’t much different than other archery gear. It’s still based on a fletched arrow being launched by a string through the use of energy stored in “limbs”. The effective range of a crossbow is similar to modern compound bows.
It does not seem like there is a clear cut winner here? Maybe that’s why we are all so emotional about this topic?
[/ QUOTE ]
That's about the best conclusion I can come up with too Wiz. You've done an excellent job of extracting the few actual facts given in all the preceeding posts. Well done.
I'm not above being selfish and saying I don't want anything added to my hunting seasons but I can't honestly say that I'm convinced that allowing crossbows during archery season will have susch a negative effect on game that some would imply. Regardless, I love bowhunting and since I wouldn't use a crossbow anyway unless I absolutely had to it's all just interesting discussion for me.
Ghost
Life Member
Really guys, I'm more about the promotion of hunting than I am about dividing "US" as hunters. Every person is entitled to their own opinion and that is always the case with this subject.
[ QUOTE ]
In fact, the business end of a crossbow, meaning the part that serves as the "projectile" functions exactly like the projectile from a longbow, recurve or compound.
[/ QUOTE ]
Reminds me of another story.
There was a kid in the neighborhood that took a .410 shotgun shell, cut off the crimp end of the shell, dumped out the shot from the shot wad, and stuck an arrow in the barrel. (Not a real smart kid!)
The "projectile" was a broadhead tipped arrow.
[ QUOTE ]
In fact, the business end of a crossbow, meaning the part that serves as the "projectile" functions exactly like the projectile from a longbow, recurve or compound.
[/ QUOTE ]
Reminds me of another story.
There was a kid in the neighborhood that took a .410 shotgun shell, cut off the crimp end of the shell, dumped out the shot from the shot wad, and stuck an arrow in the barrel. (Not a real smart kid!)
The "projectile" was a broadhead tipped arrow.
T
Tom
Guest
That kids dad should have taken him out behind the woodshed and gave him a talk'n to!
T
Tom
Guest
One thing I'd like to add to this topic before bailing out... as someone pointed out earlier, it is the archery manufacturers who are driving this “debate.” They see a way to expand their markets by growing usage of crossbows. I’m not saying that is a bad thing because we certainly all like it when they come out with innovations that make our compounds faster, quieter and smoother, but I thought it was worth listing in the “facts” column who is really behind the push for the crossbow.
Fishbonker
Life Member
The point better illistrated with a photo would be the gun cocked and loaded and the cross bow cocked and loaded all alone with no one around applying muscle efffort to keep them cocked. Then post a photo of an archer with a bow, either compund, recuve or long, that is at full draw with an arrow on the rest. That pretty much sums it up for me. Its not about FPS, range or the latest doodad it is my mind and my body overcoming so many things that can go wrong at any second and deliver an ethical fatal shot supplied totaly with my own muscle power. Argue about cams and let off all you want, I still have to hold that string and keep several variables all in alighment to make that shot.
Computer software and cameras are point and click, not archery.
The 'Bonker
Computer software and cameras are point and click, not archery.
The 'Bonker
Ghost
Life Member
[ QUOTE ]
Hey folks, with all due respect, you could also add a picture of a new compound bow and release next to the crossbow and point out that they both utilize the following: string activated launching system, arrow quiver, broadhead tipped fletched arrows, trigger activated release, etc... In fact, the business end of a crossbow, meaning the part that serves as the "projectile" functions exactly like the projectile from a longbow, recurve or compound.
[/ QUOTE ]
Crossbows first....what's next?
New Archery Law .....as long as you shoot an arrow projectile it is now legal in the state of Iowa during archery season.
How about this guys? I see a lot of hunter opportunity here.
Or how about this? Arrow Gun
Hey folks, with all due respect, you could also add a picture of a new compound bow and release next to the crossbow and point out that they both utilize the following: string activated launching system, arrow quiver, broadhead tipped fletched arrows, trigger activated release, etc... In fact, the business end of a crossbow, meaning the part that serves as the "projectile" functions exactly like the projectile from a longbow, recurve or compound.
[/ QUOTE ]
Crossbows first....what's next?
New Archery Law .....as long as you shoot an arrow projectile it is now legal in the state of Iowa during archery season.
How about this guys? I see a lot of hunter opportunity here.
Or how about this? Arrow Gun
katy
Ballagh
Ghostie - good pics, and bonker - that is what I have been trying to explain. Yes the manufacturers are the ones who are really pushing, they have a $30,000,00.00 piece of the pie as of last year. Look at the cabelas catalog, Damn near as many pages of xbows as the is compounds,recurves, and long bows!
How many arrows do you think I can launch outta a potato gun???? LOL
How many arrows do you think I can launch outta a potato gun???? LOL
Shovelbuck
Active Member
[ QUOTE ]
How many arrows do you think I can launch outta a potato gun???? LOL
[/ QUOTE ]
At least four loading from the muzzle, six if from the breech.
How many arrows do you think I can launch outta a potato gun???? LOL
[/ QUOTE ]
At least four loading from the muzzle, six if from the breech.
Monsterbuck
Active Member
I think you are all barking up the wrong tree. How can a crossbow compare with having to compete with superheros in the deer woods?
Talk about your kinetic energy!
Talk about your kinetic energy!
teeroy
Life Member
the thing that bugs me, is that everyone wants to pack more hunters into the archery season. the reason iowa's deer herd is so amazing, is the relatively low hunting pressure durring the rut (no guns, archery's inherent challenges). if you want to hunt the rut, get a bow and learn to shoot.
that's what i did
that's what i did
jjohnson
Well-Known Member
READ THIS... I think this pretty much sums up what we're trying to say.
web page
MTB Opposes the use of Crossbows in Archery Hunting Seasons
With increasing frequency, people are asking why MTB opposes the use of crossbows during Michigan's archery hunting seasons. Here are just a few reasons why:
Bowhunting was meant to be a challenging sport. By design, hunting with a traditional or compound bow requires a level of dedication from its participants that far surpasses the difficulty found in becoming familiar with and hunting with a crossbow. Regrettably, there are those who are not willing to put forth the time and effort to learn to shoot traditional or even compound archery equipment adequately enough to hunt with them during archery only hunting seasons. The crossbow provides the quick answer for the person who lacks the dedication and commitment required to become proficient with a conventional bow and arrow.
MTB is no more against crossbows than they are against rifles and shotguns as legitimate hunting weapons. What MTB does favor however is the use of archery equipment in Michigan's archery hunting seasons. It should also be pointed out that MTB is NOT opposed to the use of crossbows in Michigan's archery hunting seasons by those who have the legitimate right to use one and have qualified for the permit to do so. It was archery hunters who helped write and continue to support the current legislation that allows for any legitimately disabled person to participate in the Michigan's archery hunting seasons with a crossbow.
The crossbow is not a bow and arrow and there is nothing primitive or short range about it. The crossbow is cocked, breech loaded, the stock is shouldered, the fore stock is held, safety clicked off and the trigger is pulled. Crossbows possess deadly accuracy with no movement, other than a trigger finger required - much unlike a conventional bow which must be hand drawn and held at full draw, without the aid of any mechanical device. Currently, crossbow enthusiasts in Michigan can hunt during the firearm season - a season well suited for a cocked, breech loaded, stock shouldered, triggered weapon.
When asked what the difference is between a crossbow and a conventional bow, I refer to a report by Norb Mullany a professional engineer who is recognized as the leading authority on the physics of bows and arrows. Anyone who has picked up an archery magazine throughout the years and read Norb's performance reports on archery equipment knows why he's very respected in his field. Mr. Mullany states, "The hand held bow has one characteristic that distinguishes it from a crossbow or any type of firearm. The internal ballistics are a function of the shooter, his or her physical geometry and capabilities, shooting form, consistency and reaction to stress and trauma. In the crossbow and firearms, the internal ballistics are fixed. The action of the shooter in triggering a release of energy does nothing more than initiate a process that is consistent and repetitive. The hand held bow is different. Every action of the shooter contributes something either positive or negative to the interior ballistic process. As the interior ballistics vary, so do the exterior ballistics. Shooting the hand held bow and arrow is much more complicated than aiming a fixed system of ballistics and touching off the energy discharge. The total energy to draw, hold and release the bow must come directly and unassisted from the shooters muscle power".
Those who chose to hunt with a bow and arrow have a unique set of disciplines, challenges and responsibilities and Michigan's archery hunting seasons were developed recognizing these unique challenges. The difficulty in mastering these challenges and responsibilities has kept the numbers of archery hunters at manageable levels that have a limited impact upon the resources. Our archery seasons are lengthy and our bag limits are liberal because archery season is about hunting with a weapon that has a very limited impact on a very precious resource.
Crossbow proponents claim to be the ally of women, children and the elderly using the presumption that somehow, some have been left behind in Michigan's archery hunting seasons because they haven't been allowed the use of a crossbow. This is preposterous at best and an insult to any child, woman or senior citizen. Anyone, without exception, who is interested and willing to learn to shoot a bow and arrow has been able to participate, especially with the advent of the compound bow.
Often crossbow proponents want to equate Ohio, where crossbows are legal for use during the archery hunting seasons, to Michigan. But the two states simply cannot be compared. Ohio does not, nor will it ever compare to Michigan. In Ohio only 4% of all land is public, while approximately 22% of all land in Michigan is public. Today, approximately 56% of those who hunt during the archery season in Ohio use crossbows and since the inclusion of crossbows in Ohio's archery deer season, harvest numbers have risen significantly. Ohio has a limit of one antlered deer per year and a firearms season that ranges from 2 to 6 days. Would that be something the 750,000 firearm hunters in MI appreciate? What about our lengthy archery season here in MI? How long would that last if eventually 56% of the 375,000 archery hunters in MI began using a crossbow?
Crossbow proponents also know that the real money to be made is not going to come from their inclusion in Michigan's firearm deer season. Firearm deer hunters are not going to put down their rifles and pick up a crossbow during firearm season - it's not logical. Crossbow proponents and manufacturers know that the real money to be made is when they gain access to archery seasons.
For those who insist that crossbows are no different than modern day compound bows, why do they insist on pushing for crossbow use during the archery hunting seasons? If that is the case, then why don't they simply choose to use a compound bow if a crossbow is no different than a compound bow? The answer is obvious …
Bowhunting is a fun, challenging, and rewarding sport. For many of us, it is more than just a sport; it is a way of life. Archery-only hunting seasons are not discriminatory. They are open to anyone willing to accept the challenge. The saddest part of this whole issue is that crossbow proponents cannot get past the idea of the kill itself. Their sole desire is for the quickest and easiest kill - with the least amount of time and preparation required. That's not archery - that's not what bowhunting in MI is all about. The crossbow is not a bow and arrow - it's a gun - and it is not at all primitive in the impact it will have on Michigan deer hunting. The sport of bowhunting is difficult, but that's the path we chose because we choose to overcome these difficulties by means of skill, preparation and persistence. Not by devices and shortcuts.
web page
MTB Opposes the use of Crossbows in Archery Hunting Seasons
With increasing frequency, people are asking why MTB opposes the use of crossbows during Michigan's archery hunting seasons. Here are just a few reasons why:
Bowhunting was meant to be a challenging sport. By design, hunting with a traditional or compound bow requires a level of dedication from its participants that far surpasses the difficulty found in becoming familiar with and hunting with a crossbow. Regrettably, there are those who are not willing to put forth the time and effort to learn to shoot traditional or even compound archery equipment adequately enough to hunt with them during archery only hunting seasons. The crossbow provides the quick answer for the person who lacks the dedication and commitment required to become proficient with a conventional bow and arrow.
MTB is no more against crossbows than they are against rifles and shotguns as legitimate hunting weapons. What MTB does favor however is the use of archery equipment in Michigan's archery hunting seasons. It should also be pointed out that MTB is NOT opposed to the use of crossbows in Michigan's archery hunting seasons by those who have the legitimate right to use one and have qualified for the permit to do so. It was archery hunters who helped write and continue to support the current legislation that allows for any legitimately disabled person to participate in the Michigan's archery hunting seasons with a crossbow.
The crossbow is not a bow and arrow and there is nothing primitive or short range about it. The crossbow is cocked, breech loaded, the stock is shouldered, the fore stock is held, safety clicked off and the trigger is pulled. Crossbows possess deadly accuracy with no movement, other than a trigger finger required - much unlike a conventional bow which must be hand drawn and held at full draw, without the aid of any mechanical device. Currently, crossbow enthusiasts in Michigan can hunt during the firearm season - a season well suited for a cocked, breech loaded, stock shouldered, triggered weapon.
When asked what the difference is between a crossbow and a conventional bow, I refer to a report by Norb Mullany a professional engineer who is recognized as the leading authority on the physics of bows and arrows. Anyone who has picked up an archery magazine throughout the years and read Norb's performance reports on archery equipment knows why he's very respected in his field. Mr. Mullany states, "The hand held bow has one characteristic that distinguishes it from a crossbow or any type of firearm. The internal ballistics are a function of the shooter, his or her physical geometry and capabilities, shooting form, consistency and reaction to stress and trauma. In the crossbow and firearms, the internal ballistics are fixed. The action of the shooter in triggering a release of energy does nothing more than initiate a process that is consistent and repetitive. The hand held bow is different. Every action of the shooter contributes something either positive or negative to the interior ballistic process. As the interior ballistics vary, so do the exterior ballistics. Shooting the hand held bow and arrow is much more complicated than aiming a fixed system of ballistics and touching off the energy discharge. The total energy to draw, hold and release the bow must come directly and unassisted from the shooters muscle power".
Those who chose to hunt with a bow and arrow have a unique set of disciplines, challenges and responsibilities and Michigan's archery hunting seasons were developed recognizing these unique challenges. The difficulty in mastering these challenges and responsibilities has kept the numbers of archery hunters at manageable levels that have a limited impact upon the resources. Our archery seasons are lengthy and our bag limits are liberal because archery season is about hunting with a weapon that has a very limited impact on a very precious resource.
Crossbow proponents claim to be the ally of women, children and the elderly using the presumption that somehow, some have been left behind in Michigan's archery hunting seasons because they haven't been allowed the use of a crossbow. This is preposterous at best and an insult to any child, woman or senior citizen. Anyone, without exception, who is interested and willing to learn to shoot a bow and arrow has been able to participate, especially with the advent of the compound bow.
Often crossbow proponents want to equate Ohio, where crossbows are legal for use during the archery hunting seasons, to Michigan. But the two states simply cannot be compared. Ohio does not, nor will it ever compare to Michigan. In Ohio only 4% of all land is public, while approximately 22% of all land in Michigan is public. Today, approximately 56% of those who hunt during the archery season in Ohio use crossbows and since the inclusion of crossbows in Ohio's archery deer season, harvest numbers have risen significantly. Ohio has a limit of one antlered deer per year and a firearms season that ranges from 2 to 6 days. Would that be something the 750,000 firearm hunters in MI appreciate? What about our lengthy archery season here in MI? How long would that last if eventually 56% of the 375,000 archery hunters in MI began using a crossbow?
Crossbow proponents also know that the real money to be made is not going to come from their inclusion in Michigan's firearm deer season. Firearm deer hunters are not going to put down their rifles and pick up a crossbow during firearm season - it's not logical. Crossbow proponents and manufacturers know that the real money to be made is when they gain access to archery seasons.
For those who insist that crossbows are no different than modern day compound bows, why do they insist on pushing for crossbow use during the archery hunting seasons? If that is the case, then why don't they simply choose to use a compound bow if a crossbow is no different than a compound bow? The answer is obvious …
Bowhunting is a fun, challenging, and rewarding sport. For many of us, it is more than just a sport; it is a way of life. Archery-only hunting seasons are not discriminatory. They are open to anyone willing to accept the challenge. The saddest part of this whole issue is that crossbow proponents cannot get past the idea of the kill itself. Their sole desire is for the quickest and easiest kill - with the least amount of time and preparation required. That's not archery - that's not what bowhunting in MI is all about. The crossbow is not a bow and arrow - it's a gun - and it is not at all primitive in the impact it will have on Michigan deer hunting. The sport of bowhunting is difficult, but that's the path we chose because we choose to overcome these difficulties by means of skill, preparation and persistence. Not by devices and shortcuts.
DOR
Life Member
As an old traditional purist (having hunted my 1st 15 years exclusively with a recurve/cedar arrows etc...), I can say If we were comparing crossbows to recurves, one could certainly make a more feverishly clear arguement against the X-gun.
My hunting skills have not improved much since I started shooting the scooter (compound), however, I sure can shoot a lot further and very rarely miss my intended target/opportunity ( I'm a better shot, not a hunter). I'm not complaining about this because, many of the deer I have put on the wall since I started shooting the compound would probably still be out there if I were shooting the recurve.
However, I have now hunted with a compound for 3 years, and I have shot X-guns( have not hunted with one, and have no desire to), It really isn't a big stretch to compare the two IMO. Like I said before (IMO), there are no real distinct areas in practical hunting situations where the x-gun is that much more advantageous.
Imagine what Howard Hill would have thought about your Mathews/HOYT being used during "archery" season.
Now don't misunderstand me, I probably am more against crossbows then for them, but I think we (compound shooters, me included) are being a touch hypocritical to go to extremes in opposing cross-bows.
Here is my idea, lets have a traditional only season! LOL
I think there is some validity to the "slippery slope" arguement against X-bows, but a little common sense will go a long way.
I long for the day when I can once again deal with missing that 25 yard, 170 incher, oppurtunity due to holding a stickbow in my hand. Maybe thats coming sooner than later.
I guess, basically, my whole deal is that we need to keep our ranks as together as we can to defend our sport from those who would like to take it away. If some yahoo would rather shoot a x-bow and it has been deemed legal, so be it, it just would not be my cup of tea. Later
My hunting skills have not improved much since I started shooting the scooter (compound), however, I sure can shoot a lot further and very rarely miss my intended target/opportunity ( I'm a better shot, not a hunter). I'm not complaining about this because, many of the deer I have put on the wall since I started shooting the compound would probably still be out there if I were shooting the recurve.
However, I have now hunted with a compound for 3 years, and I have shot X-guns( have not hunted with one, and have no desire to), It really isn't a big stretch to compare the two IMO. Like I said before (IMO), there are no real distinct areas in practical hunting situations where the x-gun is that much more advantageous.
Imagine what Howard Hill would have thought about your Mathews/HOYT being used during "archery" season.
Now don't misunderstand me, I probably am more against crossbows then for them, but I think we (compound shooters, me included) are being a touch hypocritical to go to extremes in opposing cross-bows.
Here is my idea, lets have a traditional only season! LOL
I think there is some validity to the "slippery slope" arguement against X-bows, but a little common sense will go a long way.
I long for the day when I can once again deal with missing that 25 yard, 170 incher, oppurtunity due to holding a stickbow in my hand. Maybe thats coming sooner than later.
I guess, basically, my whole deal is that we need to keep our ranks as together as we can to defend our sport from those who would like to take it away. If some yahoo would rather shoot a x-bow and it has been deemed legal, so be it, it just would not be my cup of tea. Later
DOR
Life Member
One more devils advocate post.....
"Bowhunting is a fun, challenging, and rewarding sport. For many of us, it is more than just a sport; it is a way of life. Archery-only hunting seasons are not discriminatory. They are open to anyone willing to accept the challenge. The saddest part of this whole issue is that crossbow proponents cannot get past the idea of the kill itself. Their sole desire is for the quickest and easiest kill - with the least amount of time and preparation required. That's not archery - that's not what bowhunting in MI is all about. The crossbow is not a bow and arrow - it's a gun - and it is not at all primitive in the impact it will have on Michigan deer hunting. The sport of bowhunting is difficult, but that's the path we chose because we choose to overcome these difficulties by means of skill, preparation and persistence. Not by devices and shortcuts"
One could easily think the author of the above post was talking about compounds if it wasn't stated otherwise.
I would venture to guess that the very same arguments were made by traditional archers back in the 60's and 70's. The compound is machined and it is far from "primitive" as implied above. The compound has made archery hunting what it is today, but I still say we need to be very careful who we condemn, as our ranks are not growing at near the rate as are the anti's.
"Bowhunting is a fun, challenging, and rewarding sport. For many of us, it is more than just a sport; it is a way of life. Archery-only hunting seasons are not discriminatory. They are open to anyone willing to accept the challenge. The saddest part of this whole issue is that crossbow proponents cannot get past the idea of the kill itself. Their sole desire is for the quickest and easiest kill - with the least amount of time and preparation required. That's not archery - that's not what bowhunting in MI is all about. The crossbow is not a bow and arrow - it's a gun - and it is not at all primitive in the impact it will have on Michigan deer hunting. The sport of bowhunting is difficult, but that's the path we chose because we choose to overcome these difficulties by means of skill, preparation and persistence. Not by devices and shortcuts"
One could easily think the author of the above post was talking about compounds if it wasn't stated otherwise.
I would venture to guess that the very same arguments were made by traditional archers back in the 60's and 70's. The compound is machined and it is far from "primitive" as implied above. The compound has made archery hunting what it is today, but I still say we need to be very careful who we condemn, as our ranks are not growing at near the rate as are the anti's.
Shedhuntermd
PMA Member
[ QUOTE ]
Here is my idea, lets have a traditional only season! LOL
[/ QUOTE ]
It is not a terrible idea, after all bows have come at least as far as black powder guns have in the last 15 years. I say lets give respect where respect is due, they have become high tech and by far more accurate and capable than ever imagined.
Lets give the traditional archers, say from Nov. 1st-20th, so they can have the first crack at the big rutting whitetails; after all they work by far the hardest to become proficient the hard way by stick and string and practice.
I find this entire argument to be hypocritical, and it is so obvious that almost nobody seems to see it. At some point you have to draw the line on what is acceptable in archery season/black powder. Smokeless powder, sabot slugs, shotgun primers, scopes, releases, drop away rest, fiber optic sights, carbon arrows, 85% release, single cam, draw locks, crossbows with 200# draws, and 450fps crossbows. At some point you have to draw a line and break them all into different seasons because they have become so different.
PS I shoot a crossbow because of a disability and very much so miss shooting a compound, but the compound I shot just 10 year ago is far from today's compound.
The crossbow debate has bothered me now for quite some time, to the point that I have never posed in a picture after a harvest with my crossbow because of what people think. It is very degrading, and it is a real shame that fellow hunters do that to each other.
Here is my idea, lets have a traditional only season! LOL
[/ QUOTE ]
It is not a terrible idea, after all bows have come at least as far as black powder guns have in the last 15 years. I say lets give respect where respect is due, they have become high tech and by far more accurate and capable than ever imagined.
Lets give the traditional archers, say from Nov. 1st-20th, so they can have the first crack at the big rutting whitetails; after all they work by far the hardest to become proficient the hard way by stick and string and practice.
I find this entire argument to be hypocritical, and it is so obvious that almost nobody seems to see it. At some point you have to draw the line on what is acceptable in archery season/black powder. Smokeless powder, sabot slugs, shotgun primers, scopes, releases, drop away rest, fiber optic sights, carbon arrows, 85% release, single cam, draw locks, crossbows with 200# draws, and 450fps crossbows. At some point you have to draw a line and break them all into different seasons because they have become so different.
PS I shoot a crossbow because of a disability and very much so miss shooting a compound, but the compound I shot just 10 year ago is far from today's compound.
The crossbow debate has bothered me now for quite some time, to the point that I have never posed in a picture after a harvest with my crossbow because of what people think. It is very degrading, and it is a real shame that fellow hunters do that to each other.