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CWD Real World / What do you think?

Central Iowa

Life Member
I contacted a friend in Illinois that I knew had faced the CWD issues we may see in the future and wanted his insight to what he has experienced to help me understand what we may or may not be up against. Bob's a real world guy with hands on experience and easy to talk to. I encourage any questions as they will all help us understand this better. I will make sure Bob checks in once in awhile if there are questions. What do you guys think?



[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]I am happy to offer my insight to our CWD experience. Hopefully my brother hunter/managers in Iowa can benefit from my experiences to gain a better understanding of its future impact.[/FONT]
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Before discussing our CWD experience to help IA folks understand the impact, I’d like to relay a very brief history of my properties and their management, to better illustrate my experience fully, and relate it to the present.

CWD was an obscure disease that happened elsewhere when I began managing my property 18 years ago, not dissimilar to bovine TB in MI. It didn’t impact “our” herd so it wasn’t a consideration for my plans. My goal was to have trophy bucks, and I wanted them to be visible.

At the time this was contrary to scientific thinking, which indicated several thousand acres were necessary to produce “trophy” deer. I also wanted to implement my plan in a holistic manner, good for the land, water other wildlife with an emphasis on deer.

My habitat improvement crusade began in 1993 with the acquisition of my first farm. I felt this would be a logical first step to attract, hold and eventually manage “my” deer herd. At the time my investment in land & equipment etc., was staggering but I felt my time and labor investment was even higher value.

My objective was to increase the deer population on my property in an effort to produce more buck fawns. A few successful years of recruitment were followed by seasons with slowly increasing doe harvests. As habitat improved, including feed available (both natural & food plots) the herd began a population boom. I added more acreage in the 2nd year, and more yet later. (increasing the need for my habitat labor and equipment investment & expense)

In short order we declared war on does, thanks to liberal tag availability. Our population didn’t really decline, it boomed with bucks and the does became harder to harvest. But my plan worked, and regular daytime sightings of more mature bucks (including kills) became reality.

I cannot stress the investment in time, labor and money enough, based upon a plan that, at the time (early 1990’s), experts said was impossible.

Then came CWD 80 or so miles NW of my properties in Mt Horeb, WI in 2001. This hit me like a ton of bricks as the State of WI announced an eradication plan, to kill every deer on, and in the surrounding counties. The media firestorm that followed scared the daylights out of me.

The very next year (2002) IL had a positive CWD deer found below the WI border 35 to 40 miles from home in Winnebago County. I thought it was only a matter of time, and all my effort and sacrifice would be for nothing. I also feared my property’s land value which had risen substantially (thanks to my proximity to the Chicagoland area) would plummet.

Baiting had been illegal here, but after season feeding was allowed which we enjoyed by the house. This practice was outlawed in short order (which I agreed with and still do).

Since this was potentially the end of my dream, I set out to document what I had achieved on my properties and how I had done it. Thus began the Building Whitetail Paradise DVD Series. At least a record would exist for others to follow who may not be impacted by CWD…as you know, I did it with my own time and money accepting no commercial endorsement even after it became a best seller. It was about truth, not silver bullets as Kroll says.

In short order I met with an IDNR supervising biologist regarding CWD, and it was a blunt conversation. They didn’t know much about how the disease was passed between deer or how long it would take to spread. Prions basically were thought to live forever in the soil…and computer models reflected the eventual end of deer populations, nobody knew the timeframe.

The best plan we could come up with would be to radically thin the herd, putting space between the deer themselves. Hunters would be participants, and sharpshooters would be utilized on State and county grounds, and private land where hunting was minimal due to the proximity to houses in densely populated areas.

Thanks to our Governor illegally raiding IDNR funds, no money to speak of was available to support the effort aside from salaries. I raised money to help get needed materials for the staff.

In short order CWD was found in adjoining counties, Boone, Ogle (my county), Stephenson in addition to Winnebago.

Over time it has been found in more counties, DeKalb, LaSalle & McHenry. My neighbors and I further ramped up doe harvest after discovery in our county based upon our discussion of the disease and its potential impact. In our informal cooperative, this did not include killing large numbers of bucks even when permits were liberalized. Older bucks do have a higher incidence rate of CWD, but I believed the vast majority of our bucks were locals due to annual photo census, video & direct observation. (radical at the time)

The disease spread here in IL can easily be traced to riparian corridors, I will provide a map for you. It seems sparks from the “main fire” can leap pretty good distances but haven’t yet led to brush fires in heavily hunted areas, which is comforting since one spark landed just a few sections from my property.

The latest totals for infection per county are as follows as of Dec. 2010:

Total CWD Cases per County:
Boone: 109
DeKalb: 31
LaSalle: 1
McHenry: 23
Ogle: 3
Stephenson: 2
Winnebago: 125
Total: 294
The rate of growth in CWD by year:

2003: 14
2004: 51
2005: 31
2006: 51
2007: 42
2008: 38
2009: 30
2010: 37

Basically, the risk to IA initially will be along riparian corridors, which run from the current area of infection in MN. Sparks will most likely occur fairly distant from known cases due to migration. Some of these sparks will take root as they have in McHenry County here, this is probably due to lack of hunting in more urban areas.

I absolutely support a combination of hunters stepping up harvest and sharp shooting where appropriate. Sharp shooting has occurred here in densely populated areas, and State properties where hunters either didn’t do the job on doe harvest, or lacked opportunity at all due to Forest Preserves and Nature Centers not allowing hunting.

I absolutely continue to support a ban on baiting & deer feeders due to concentration of deer at a specific spot. I absolutely recognize the difference between food plots and feeders and have not seen disease spread due to food plots.

I support the IDNR approach overall including public relations meetings and information availability. The proactive participatory wait and see approach by IL hunters, landowners and suburban homeowners has been excellent overall.

This contrasts with the hysteria in Wisconsin initially on all sides, and continues to some degree today.

The results to date on my properties have been positive as far as doe harvest increase. We have adjusted hunting strategy to further reduce hunter impact on movement while achieving my doe harvest goals. Even though our buck population has skyrocketed (I believe due to reduced buck fawn/yearling dispersal and increased migration in) they are very visible thanks to habitat, and screening strategy, and a dearth of big numbers of does.

I have adjusted my photo census strategy, which has been remarkably successful.

We now have a known buck distribution of approximately (estimated age of course) 59% aged 1.5 to 3.5, and 41% 4.5 and older including several ancient bucks. The density of bucks is staggering.

We continue to confirm age estimation via cementum annuli analysis by sending teeth to Wildlife Analytical Labs (deerage.com), which shows we are pretty darn good at estimating age prior to killing bucks. Our average harvested buck age has gone up over time. Our stacking of bucks in the 5.5 age class and up has led to rethinking many notions we had regarding when antler maturity is achieved.

Overall the CWD experience as of today has been most painful on 2 groups of people, those who didn’t apply QDM science to their overall management, and non-hunters who don’t get management. Both these groups contain people who will never get it, but many actually have, which is pretty cool.

So far the experience I have had has served to reinforce long held beliefs, and open my eyes to the fact that even after 18 years of intense overall management…things can continue to get better regarding deer hunting & deer experiences.

I hope this quick summary can be of help to my brothers in IA, I could go on for days…please feel free to share this as you see fit, and I welcome questions or comments from the public.[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]I have attached a CWD infection by section map for you.
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Stay in touch Travis!

Bob Coine
www.Heartlandillinois.com

1078-cwd_distribution_map_northern_il.bmp






 
thanks Travis for taking the time to contact Bob,i have been to his seminars and read his books,he is a very down to earth management guy that does his research.this is what i was looking for,good hard facts!!!!!
 
so it states

"In short order I met with an IDNR supervising biologist regarding CWD, and it was a blunt conversation. They didn’t know much about how the disease was passed between deer or how long it would take to spread. Prions basically were thought to live forever in the soil…and computer models reflected the eventual end of deer populations, nobody knew the timeframe."

I am not trying to start anything here, but I sure hope they know more about it now. Because here, it says they didnt know much about it, how it was passed, and how the spread occurs. And the prions were thought to live forever. So I guess I am asking, if its supposed to be spread by a bait pile, how did this get determined, and how are there cases so widespread? According to that map, looks like many many miles apart for some of them. Also, do they know then how long the prions are there? Is it actually forever, because if thats the case, once we get it, its a done deal. If they didnt/dont know how it spreads, seems funny they can just eliminate that. Again, not trying to start anything, just trying to grasp a better understanding
 
I am not trying to start anything here, but I sure hope they know more about it now. Because here, it says they didnt know much about it, how it was passed, and how the spread occurs. And the prions were thought to live forever. So I guess I am asking, if its supposed to be spread by a bait pile, how did this get determined, and how are there cases so widespread? According to that map, looks like many many miles apart for some of them. Also, do they know then how long the prions are there? Is it actually forever, because if thats the case, once we get it, its a done deal. If they didnt/dont know how it spreads, seems funny they can just eliminate that. Again, not trying to start anything, just trying to grasp a better understanding

That's what this thread is all about. Hopefully we all gain a little more knowledge from this. At this point I know bits and pieces and that's about it.
 
Because here, it says they didnt know much about it, how it was passed, and how the spread occurs. And the prions were thought to live forever. So I guess I am asking, if its supposed to be spread by a bait pile, how did this get determined, and how are there cases so widespread?
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v425/n6953/full/425035a.html?lang=en
"The gathering of deer during winter may foster the spread of chronic wasting disease."
"Both direct and indirect transmission of CWD can probably occur8, and concentrating deer in captivity or by feeding them artificially may facilitate transmission. The social behaviour of deer, particularly their tendency to gather and yard together during winter, might also foster epidemics in the wild. The efficiency of horizontal CWD transmission, exacerbated by behavioural ecology, might explain the high probability of CWD's becoming established in deer populations once it has been introduced either by natural spread or by the commercial movement of infected animals."
 
Okay, so then how does it spread so far...I mean, by looking at the map, it shows cases a county apart, which I figure a county is pretty good size. Do they figure once a deer gets it, that it just wanders?? Doesnt stick to a home core anymore?? Again, just simply asking
 
Personally I think there is only so much you can do to help prevent it but its gonna happen no matter what thats how mother nature works but being proactive now definately slows this down.
 
Okay, so then how does it spread so far...

Studies have been done on how far young bucks relocate from the area of their birth. The average distance can be quite high (don't recall the exact mileage, but I was surprised). So a young buck with maternal transmission (born with CWD) takes off cross country.....
 
Okay, another question then... have they determined then if the prions actually die off? because if they dont die, then they will always be here, so basically all the deer will die?? Because regardless, its going to spread. Remember, they keep saying its not if, its when..
 
Oh, and a quick look at dispersal rates show anywhere from 1-36 miles..so now that part makes sense of being born with it... thanks for that clarification
 
Another factor to the distance gaps in the spread, is that these are the KNOWN cases. Whos to say that there weren't many other deer in between to "connect the dots" that were never sampled?
 
Hello Everyone!

Thank you for your questions, I’ll do my best to respond accurately. The key here is that this is truly a “realtime” science issue, meaning what’s known today may be updated tomorrow. Most folks who are interested in management find this topic interesting, and it would be great if you could share accurate information with others. Rumors can run wild, and really helps nothing. Thank you for your interest!

Flugge: It is not spread by a bait pile. The bait pile puts deer in the exact same location where transmission can occur. This is the latest information that I am aware of from researchers at the CWD alliance. It is not known exactly how CWD is transmitted. It may be passed in feces, urine or saliva. Transmission is thought to be from animal to animal. Mother to fetus may occur. In Illinois, fawns killed and tested during deer season prior to approximately mid-January do not test positive, but some have tested positive from mid-January going forward which might indicate a lack of detection during initial incubation.

How does it spread so far? Sparks are most likely caused by dispersal. U of I grad students have been taking tissue samples (tongue) and doing DNA analysis for several years, hoping to understand dispersal. Samples are collected at the few remaining firearm check stations (cwd areas), and I believe elsewhere from road kill and collection. This will help us understand how distant related animals may live.

Bowtech 150: A proactive approach to slow CWD spread to allow science to catch up is a great call on your part, and my sentiments precisely.

JNRBRONC: Any deer can disperse. Orphaned fawn bucks may have a higher tendency to not disperse according to researcher’s radio telemetry study, and may actually have a smaller home range. My experience reflects this as accurate with our high density buck population. Our strategy is constant pressure on doe harvest…eldest first (for many reasons).

Flugge: Yes prions live long…This is where stewardship comes in, and I have preached this forever. If we plant food plots, we should think in terms of building soil. This may be a strange way to put it, but I do this to make a point…archaeologists typically dig to find what they are looking for. If we manage the soil properly, we add to it over time…even non-tilled soil. Percolation of water will carry things below ground water. The point is what’s on top today, may not be there tomorrow…

Dispersal studies are not perfect as no 2 habitats are identical, and neither are deer themselves. I’ve talked about recognizing individuality as it pertains to hunting an individual buck as some of us choose to do. They do have different personalities, and in fact theirs may change to some degree as they age. As our population of older bucks (6 ½+) grew over time, I’ve found many become less concerned with security as they get older yet. This has afforded us the luxury of laying off younger bucks 5 ½ years and younger. I believe a deer living on one of your intensively managed Iowa properties cannot be compared to a deer in unmanaged northern forests, or arid parts of Texas.


Hope everyone enjoyed their time afield this year!

Bob Coine
Heartland Studios, Inc. & Building Whitetail Paradise
 
Another question?? Why do bucks have it more than does and fawns? This was supposedly the case with TB, up in MI. too. Does and fawns share saliva with eachother more than bucks? Also they eat more from plots and baits, than bucks.
 
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