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DBLTREE ROTATION

Sligh1

Sligh1

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Here’s dbltree’s condensed instructions….
I believe the update he would make to this is: once the soil is corrected, far less fertilizer is needed. Maybe only some lime. Wanted to have this in one spot.


Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice, Kopu II, Durana (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot, sow at 6#'s per acre with the rye combination in the fall or in the spring with oats and berseem clover. Correct Ph and P&K with soil tests

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most Midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost, Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea and 400#'s of 6-28-28 per acre. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring at 60#'s oats and 12-15#'s berseem clover and/or crimson and/or 50#'s of chickling vetch)

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot...we use 50# each rye, oats and peas along with radish and clover seed all planted in half of each feeding area

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 50-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Frostmaster Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre

Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre (or 20-40 pounds hairy vetch and 20-30#'s crimson clover on sandy soils)
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas use 100 - 200#'s of urea, if starting a new plot add 400#'s of 6-28-28 but for best results soil test and add only what is necessary.

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year
 
Sligh1 said:
Here’s dbltree’s condensed instructions….
I believe the update he would make to this is: once the soil is corrected, far less fertilizer is needed. Maybe only some lime. Wanted to have this in one spot.


Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice, Kopu II, Durana (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot, sow at 6#'s per acre with the rye combination in the fall or in the spring with oats and berseem clover. Correct Ph and P&K with soil tests

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most Midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost, Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea and 400#'s of 6-28-28 per acre. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring at 60#'s oats and 12-15#'s berseem clover and/or crimson and/or 50#'s of chickling vetch)

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot...we use 50# each rye, oats and peas along with radish and clover seed all planted in half of each feeding area

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 50-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Frostmaster Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre

Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre (or 20-40 pounds hairy vetch and 20-30#'s crimson clover on sandy soils)
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas use 100 - 200#'s of urea, if starting a new plot add 400#'s of 6-28-28 but for best results soil test and add only what is necessary.

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year
Click to expand...
Was just looking up what seed I needed to order for this :)
 
I saved that a few years ago so I can remind myself each year. I have always had good plots following his directions to the letter. Clover in the South, Brasica in the Middle, and Cereal Grain in the North.
1.jpg
2.jpg
 
I have a few questions on the doubletree mix from those of you that have used it:
1) I am getting ready to place an order from Welters for seed. Looks like they have Austrian Winter Peas and Survivor Winter Peas, they advertise that the Survivor builds more nitrogen but don't know which the deer prefer. Which one, if either do you recommend?
2) For the cereal grain combo do you seed 50# each of rye, oats, and peas per acre (sounds like a lot of seed!)? If not, how many pounds per acre of each?
3) Do you let the cereal grain mix grow the entire year from Sept thru the following July until converting it to brassicas in August?
4) If yes to #3 above, then the entire plot would be in a clover and grains from spring until fall - correct?
 
1. I was just at Welters around 4th of July and was going to try the Survivor pea but they did not have any in stock. They said they would have them in the next few months. I got the Austrian peas since I was there. I used the Austrian pea's last year with great results. The picture attached is this year. The Austrian peas came back with a vengeance. A great provider of free Nitrogen i did inoculate them.
pea.jpg


2. Yes 50# of each
3. Yes you can for various reasons....combat weeds, add nitrogen, and food source for deer. I personally don't wait that long because of the amount of plant matter. For me I spray it about a month and half before(Mid June) so everything is laying on the ground dried out. Also, I only use a 4 wheeler to do my planting which limits me some.
4. Yes, that is the hope anyway doesn't always go perfect. Dbltrees saying for planting the Brasica is "rain or shine July 29"

You can't go wrong with Dbltrees mixes.
 
Today I've been reading on broadcasting cover crops, and came across this snippet I thought was interesting...I always heard the seed will sit there until it gets moisture, but now I wonder what the mortality rate is after 10 days of no moisture and if it hasn't caused some plot failures....many of us plant when we have a window of time, rain in the forecast or not

NRCS, Iowa
September 2010 2
Harvesting soybeans releases previously seeded cover crop.
Soil moisture
Aerial seeding has much higher success in areas with good soil moisture and
frequent precipitation in late summer or early fall. Broadcasting seed requires
enough moisture in the top ½ - 1 inch of soil to ensure adequate moisture for the
seed to germinate and establish. This moisture needs to be present at the time of
seeding, or should be expected to occur within 10 days of seeding. If moisture is
not present and germination is delayed, there is an increased chance of seed
mortality from
desiccation, insect
damage, or animal
predation. Seeding on
hard, dry soil reduces
the chances for
germination and
uniform establishment
of the cover crop.
 
LOL 10 days…. What do you think the seed does in the bag for the first few months? Guys have planted Milo in a drought and it comes up 3 months later when it actually rained.

I plant by date, when the rain comes, it comes..
 
Always a difficult decision on when to plant. I'm in the Bassattackr camp. Plant by date and hope for rain and good weather. Sometimes the worst scenario is an immediate rain on previously dry soil that allows the seed to germinate followed by hot and dry conditions. I typically follow the dbltree rotation except I add additional variety to my brassica and clover blends and I plant my brassicas in late August. I find that the late brassica planting increases attraction during the early to mid hunting season but negatively impacts bulb production.
 
Bassattackr said:
LOL 10 days…. What do you think the seed does in the bag for the first few months? Guys have planted Milo in a drought and it comes up 3 months later when it actually rained.

I plant by date, when the rain comes, it comes..
Click to expand...

If seed goes in the ground "dry" and then it stays dry until some rain comes and there is sufficient rain following that...I generally see acceptable germination. But if it goes in dry and gets just enough moisture to germinate and then it stays dry...I have experienced significant planting failure on multiple occasions, as the tender new plants will die off with no additional moisture to work with. FWIW, milo is one the most drought tolerant things that a guy can plant too. You can get away with much more with milo/EW/sunflowers and the like than you can with brassicas.

The NRCS warning also indicates that broadcast seed that doesn't germinate right away is also subject to loss via animal predation, etc, which in my experience, is also true. Many of us are part time plotters and don't live right where we hunt...that is a big challenge to me, getting the "timing" right in conjunction with my "availability"...so I too tend to mostly follow the calendar. But with brassicas...I will deliberately plant them "late" to sync up with a rain(s) and overall, have had better outcomes that way. But neither approach is foolproof IMO, the rains need to come or else. :)
 
A bag seeder is a brassica planter’s best friend. As u assess germination a week or so after rain- fill in sparse areas.

HERE’S A TIP FOR YOU ALL….. those with a drill….
Let’s say by mid august we have 40-45% of our Dbltree plot planted to brassicas. Leaving let’s say 55% still in clover. Here’s what I do to save time…. I’ll spray the clover with clethodim & crop oil or whatever to make sure it’s clean & mowed. Instead of killing it - I simply load the drill up with rye, oats, peas, etc - drill right into the existing clover at end of august. Saves a good bit of time & then u got your 3 plantings in one plot: brassicas, clover & the cereal rye mix. Worth a shot if able or want to experiment some. I personally would do this to any clover plot as it adds diversity, later season draw & builds the soil.
 
I’m getting ready to plan out my food plots this year, so let me make sure I understand the rotation correctly. If I don’t have a drill to use Skip’s shortcut, is this the schedule, assuming I’m starting with 10% clover, 45% cereal grains, and 45% brassicas from the previous year?

Spring – leave the 10% clover alone. Leave the cereal grain portion alone. Plant oats/clover in the brassica portion.

Mid summer (~early July) – leave the 10% clover alone (other than weed maintenance). Spray the remaining 90% to kill off.

Late July – plant brassicas in the last year’s cereal grain portion

Late August – plant cereal grain mix in last year’s brassica portion

What confuses me is what good are the peas as far as food? They don’t really have enough time to grow to a substantial size for the fall. Are they really only there as a food source the following summer, along with Nitrogen building? Or maybe I don’t have the rotation correct.

I’m guessing you want to occasionally rotate the area where you have the 10% clover. To do that, just grab part of the oats/clover from previous brassica plot? If so, is there a point where you should clethodim the clover to kill it off, either plant height or time of year?

Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk
 
sure shot said:
I’m getting ready to plan out my food plots this year, so let me make sure I understand the rotation correctly. If I don’t have a drill to use Skip’s shortcut, is this the schedule, assuming I’m starting with 10% clover, 45% cereal grains, and 45% brassicas from the previous year?

Spring – leave the 10% clover alone. Leave the cereal grain portion alone. Plant oats/clover in the brassica portion.

Mid summer (~early July) – leave the 10% clover alone (other than weed maintenance). Spray the remaining 90% to kill off.

Late July – plant brassicas in the last year’s cereal grain portion

Late August – plant cereal grain mix in last year’s brassica portion

What confuses me is what good are the peas as far as food? They don’t really have enough time to grow to a substantial size for the fall. Are they really only there as a food source the following summer, along with Nitrogen building? Or maybe I don’t have the rotation correct.

I’m guessing you want to occasionally rotate the area where you have the 10% clover. To do that, just grab part of the oats/clover from previous brassica plot? If so, is there a point where you should clethodim the clover to kill it off, either plant height or time of year?

Sent from my SM-G973U1 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
So the best thing about this rotation is there is not real exact way of doing it. Basically you want to have a good perennial plot of white and red clovers. Then you want to take the rest and rotate it between brassicas one year and cereal grain mix the next.

Spring-Leave ALL clover alone and plant the annuals in place of where the brassicas were

Late July(early august)- Terminate the clover and plant brassicas where the previous years cereal grains were

Early Sept- Terminate the Annual Clover and plant a grain mix

*The clover from the cereal grain mix will act as a cover crop from the next years brassicas.
*Plant an annual clover where the previous years brassicas were to also act as a cover crop
BOTH of these will add Nitrogen to the soil and help the next years crop

The peas will most likely not make it through to the next year as the deer eat them as fast as they grow. Also you do not need to add the peas, you can make the mix whatever you like...I typically go with rye, oats, clover and radishes. I leave the peas out mainly because I find them to be a bit pricey

Also I would personally changes the dates a little (I'm in South Central IA)
Plant Brassicas from Aug 5-15
Plant Cereal grain mix Sept 1-8

With the warmer weather trend we have been in the the brassicas are growing a little later than possibly when Dbltree made these recommendations...this portion is also just my opinion
 
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Peas provide great forage and attraction in the fall plot. Mine do get some length to them before the deer find them and then mow to the ground.

Several make it each year, climbing up the rye in the spring.

39CEE43F-9BC5-438C-BA9C-01FFEE455C73.jpeg
 
I am interested in responses to this as well. I like the steps that Sure Shot laid out and curious if others agree with those steps. I am halfway through my first year of trying this as well. I already frost seeded clover into my 1/2 that is brassicas, sounds like I need to do some oats as well.
 
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