pkostelecky
PMA Member
The main reason is because a lot of these hunters have had no experience with great mature deer and high numbers. They have never seen good hunting. This is what they are used to & they feel they need to shoot the first deer they see cuz it may be the last and typically that is a small buck. In MN where I live (Soon to move to Iowa) they protect the does and try kill every buck possible. The chances of a 4 or 5 year old are so slim and the gun season is the first weekend in November. So the hunters shoot the first buck they can.
Meat hunters which I am totally okay with, also shoot the buck because the doe is protected and what is usually behind the doe on opening morning?? That hunter would be totally fine shooting the doe but legally can't because the hunter only has a buck tag. The young bucks don't stand a chance here even though MN has great cover * habitat.
Some other state besides Iowa has to figure this out. Its not that difficult.
I make this point often, but I'll say it again..... there is a very large number of people that have moved to Iowa from other poorly managed states (myself included). I would love to know what that number is but it has to be in the multiple thousands. What is the economic impact from those people that are here full time for a lifetime? Hard to say, but it has to be in the hundreds of millions.
tall@wide
PMA Member
The problem I have with hunters like this is....If you don't care about shooting big, mature bucks, shoot a doe. In most places does are overpopulated and would be easy to kill. These are the same guys who would rather shoot a 1.5-year-old 4pt instead of a doe just to say I killed a buck.
That common sense is taking hold.
20-30 years ago there was the majority of grown men that would say “I just have to get my buck!” & they would just shoot one to shoot one. Like 1.5’s in MI. They weren’t excited. They would say “hunting kinda sucks here”. & it did. More folks understand what u just said above. It’s changing. For the better.
Hardwood11
It is going to be a good fall!
& does are tasty !!
deep woods goat hunter
PMA Member
Following back up on this... I am working on building a coalition of passionate hunters in Mo to organize and demand changes. Making a post on the MO whitetail forum soon... should stir the pot there .....
hesseu
Well-Known Member
Sent you a PM / DM over there.
Average age of nonsense over there is 55+....intelligent conversations are out the window.
deep woods goat hunter
PMA Member
I got your pm and added you to my email list.
I know the usual suspects... love henry but man he will get fired up on this subject.... get your popcorn out
I’ll help anyway I can. I think I could write up a “blue print” on how all this can be done. Or framework to work off of. Feel like we know the methods, how to do it, what the opposition is, arguments, etc etc.
I feel like we all know things need to change & we have the system to make it happen. Awesome to see above. Can’t wait to follow this!!!
I feel like we all know things need to change & we have the system to make it happen. Awesome to see above. Can’t wait to follow this!!!
So I will hopefully soon be one of the individuals that will be moving to Iowa so I can chase mature bucks. Being from Wisconsin and having had the opportunities to hunt the best areas of the state (Dane/Buffalo/Trempeleau counties and many others) I have hunted in great areas, bad areas, over populated places, private land, etc. Over the years, I went thru the progression many make…shoot a doe, shoot another doe, shoot a spike, then a fork, 6 pointer, 8 pointer then 3 year olds, and so on. After all that, harvesting a deer isn’t what I get the most satisfaction from in hunting. It’s playing the cat and mouse game and trying to beat one of the best survivors, a mature whitetail buck. As I progressed, I wanted to play against tougher opponents, which is why I ABSOLUTELY LOVE chasing mature whitetail bucks, the ultimate survivor and toughest opponent.
Having said all that, I feel Wisconsin doesn’t allow the bucks to get the age structure that Iowa has. Yes the gun season is in November and they have all these extra seasons. However, I think the one thing that will never allow Wisconsin to have the age structure that Iowa has is the number of nonresident hunters it allows. Wisconsin had at least one person from over 35 states and 22 different COUNTRIES that gun hunted in Wisconsin during the past gun season. Many people come from all over to hunt deer during the WI gun season to try to shoot a deer. Tradition is also big in Wisconsin and filling up the buck pole opening weekend is what many camps are trying to achieve. Because of this, one and two year old bucks get shot that could be great bucks if were given a few more years. This doesn’t happen as often in Iowa. This is why hopefully my wife and I will soon become residents of the wonderful state of Iowa so I can continue my love of playing cat and mouse with the ultimate survivor, the mature whitetail buck!!!
Having said all that, I feel Wisconsin doesn’t allow the bucks to get the age structure that Iowa has. Yes the gun season is in November and they have all these extra seasons. However, I think the one thing that will never allow Wisconsin to have the age structure that Iowa has is the number of nonresident hunters it allows. Wisconsin had at least one person from over 35 states and 22 different COUNTRIES that gun hunted in Wisconsin during the past gun season. Many people come from all over to hunt deer during the WI gun season to try to shoot a deer. Tradition is also big in Wisconsin and filling up the buck pole opening weekend is what many camps are trying to achieve. Because of this, one and two year old bucks get shot that could be great bucks if were given a few more years. This doesn’t happen as often in Iowa. This is why hopefully my wife and I will soon become residents of the wonderful state of Iowa so I can continue my love of playing cat and mouse with the ultimate survivor, the mature whitetail buck!!!
daniel93077
Active Member
Congrats on the upcoming move! Moved here in 2020 after retiring from the Air Force (and years of anticipation) and it's been amazing. There are still plenty of guys blasting everything that runs past them during the gun season but things are definitely much better than many other states in that regard.
deep woods goat hunter
PMA Member
I will welcome that help. I am drafting an email to about 70 guys I have collected from within my network to try to get a spiderweb effect going to get a larger unified group/coalition together. I'm not great with words and getting the message across so this would be a gigantic help to have a template to start study/rehearse.
Hardwood11
It is going to be a good fall!
That is a great idea.. can you be a NR with land in Missouri to participate?
deep woods goat hunter
PMA Member
I'm a NR landowner in MO too and will PM you my info. Not a fan of your ideas for NR's though: "Increase Non-resident permit pricing to align with other midwest states and only allow 1 buck for non residents". Neither will impact the herd quality in a meaningful way.
Bassattackr
Well-Known Member
We agree on vast vast majority of things but on this I would disagree. Hunting 1 buck states is game changer. Blows up the balance of the age structure. For tags- if MO actually has a quality herd- no reason they shouldn’t have tags similar in pricing to KS, IL & IA. It will increase revenue for the state.
If it was one buck for all I would agree, but his recommendation stated it was for NR’s only.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think we could go round and round, back and forth about what would make the hunting better in everyone’s state. I don’t think any of us our wrong. I think instead of trying to debate which will have the most and best impact on the age structure of the deer herd, I think we need to focus more on the politics side and stopping these crazy laws they keep trying to pass thru to ruin the hunting even more. Let’s all get banded together and figure out what the best ways are to get the information everyone out and how everyone can help this fight. Then maybe after they see we are not wrong in what we are saying, we can slowly start implementing and changing the laws that we all suggest here to “keep hunting great” in all states!!! Have a great Memorial everyone!!!