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Demonizing "Trophy Hunters"

Sligh1

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So, I pick up a magazine a week or two ago- i can't remember if it was a F&S or Outdoor Life OR one of the deer hunting mags (main article you'll see on cover)- doesn't matter I suppose, the articles and write in's are almost all the same. The basis was once again- "Trophy Hunters" are ruining hunting, etc, etc. There's of course 2 sides to every debate BUT I sure hear and see more articles like this that take off the gloves to battle the "Trophy Hunters" than vice versa. Sure, we see the trophy hunters knocking, say the "if it's brown it's down crowd" or WHATEVER sometimes BUT nothing like I see against the "Trophy Hunters".
***Keep in mind, I'm not just talking IA here, we're talking about dozens of states, etc that some have great management, some have lots of "if it's brown, it's down, etc". Not referring to just IA by any stretch. The magazines I am referring to are National.

Just felt like venting tonight a little with a little contraversy and it bugs me seeing this stuff while I can't respond and point out some huge flaws. They start by labeling this group- "Trophy Hunters", they could never call them "Balanced Deer Herd Hunters" or "Quality Age Structure Hunters"- they always have to define the argument with something they've tried to label & stigmatize as bad and create a label that brings a bad image to mind.

Part of me thinks these articles are written by guys who don't shoot older deer, can't hunt areas with older deer or are jealous of folks who do shoot older deer.

I followed out "Trophy Hunter" to what its result is, in my case. I guess they COULD label me as a "Trophy Hunter", I sure fit into what they are battling against I suppose. So, factually, what this has done for me and my land is:
1) allow for a balanced buck to do ratio, I now see around 2 does for each buck
2) I pass up bucks of younger age, regardless of score and shoot deer of older age, regardless of score
3) I have a balanced age structure, my land is below carrying capacity and the hunting is just as good year in, year out because I let younger deer go. I could go on and on about the benefits to my land, neighborhood, wildlife, habitat, enjoyment of our hunting, bringing kids out hunting who love it & have opportunites, etc, etc, etc.

Through-out the country where QDM is really practiced and when I see people properly managing for "Trophy Bucks" I see the best deer hunting around for a variety of criteria (hunter satisfaction, age class, success rate, etc). These practices have increased and this country now has the best deer hunting since Columbus landed here. The deer hunting right now is: the GOOD OLD DAYS but I truly believe those that fight against this by simply labeling you a "trophy hunter" will bring it back to factually less quality hunting, habitat, herd health and poorer success of the past.

Sure, there's problems, over-population in some areas, messed up ratios, poaching, rack obsession, etc. i get it, I understand it. There's never going to be perfection. We factually have the best hunting in our country's history for deer though.

I simply get sick of folks writing the artcles like they are ending the debate- "Trophy Hunters" = BAD. I see it everywhere, it's obvious, it's all over and I see these attacks as mostly rediculous from those that think they are the end all, be all.

Heck, go look and see what a state which doesn't care about "trophy hunting" looks like. Go to my old home state of MI and see what a joke it is. 1.5 year old bucks being the major kill of the year. Hunters complaining every time I talk to ANY of them. I don't talk to anyone that isn't outraged, sick of it or does not believe MI could get any worse- it's seriously every single guy I talk to. "Trophy Hunting" surely hasn't caught hold there and serious hunters from MI flee the state every year to come to these evil "trophy hunting" states. When all they are is states that are properly managed.

Sick of the slick worded labels, sick of the demonizing of so-called "trophy hunters" and how they are mis-represented. That's just one guy's 2 cents that has put huge effort into making his land a properly managed Quality Deer piece that also likes having mature deer around, etc, etc. Thanks for letting me speak back on all the reading I've done lately against this group of "Trophy Hunters" - that I think has done wonders for the deer herd and will continue to make it better. I could go on for 5 more pages with examples, different sides of story, IA management success, etc, etc BUT I'll save it. :)

What's your thoughts?!?! Do you notice or hear the same thing? Do you want to hunt in areas that aren't "Trophy Managed" as they label it? Opinions?
 
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I think what they are trying to say and what you are trying to say are two different things. They are trying to say in my mind that trophy hunters are bad simply because of the leasing, locking down ground, commercialization of deer hunting. The cut throat attitude. I mean if every buck in Iowa grew up to be a 60 inch 6 point we wouldn't have issues with leasing, non residents beating down the doors and creating crazy outside groups trying to change our laws. Nobody would care if a shed buck got shot during late doe season and any deer would be a good deer. There wouldn't be a Iowawhitetail.com with a huge following because it would lose interest fast if it was just about deer hunting and not seeing the pictures of the giant deer etc.

People probably also wouldn't spend thousands of dollars on Titanium Rage broadheads, trail cams, Scent lok, scent control crap and don't forget swamp donkey mineral mix. You probably wouldn't see a salt block carved into the shape of a rock and call it the trophy rock like it is some kind of magical rare mineral mix. You most likely wouldn't see these electromagnetic field suits and all the crazy crap that is coming out today. I mean let's face it, the whole hunting industry is based on Trophies, granted that may be a 120 incher down in Florida or a 200 incher in Iowa but large antlers are what is driving most of this in my opinion. The brown and downers are the minority and I would almost be willing to bet 90% of them would shoot a 190 incher versus a doe if they were standing side by side. So I would expect they are buying into some of this stuff as well.

If it was about going out and shooting deer grab your bow buy a pack of broadheads from Walmart, practice awhile into a hay bale put on the flannels and go climb up in the crotch of a tree or brush pile. The thought of killing a giant buck on the other hand is go out and get the top of the line stuff to help in the hunters mind put the odds in their favor.

Now on the other side of that from your perspective I agree and they probably would too that a perfectly balanced deer herd, and maturing into a hunter that takes only mature animals and manages their land is great and I could not see how that is ruining the sport. Who knows, its 1am and I am rambling again..
 
They are trying to say in my mind that trophy hunters are bad simply because of the leasing, locking down ground, commercialization of deer hunting. The cut throat attitude. QUOTE]
Not to mention an aggressive non-resident. I think you have to take the good with the bad. We have created alot of our own problems, but I wouldn't change anything. Not all change is good(Obama):D
 
I agree,,there is a difference between, Big rack Mania, and wanting a healthy herd and enjoying the sight of mature animals.When I first moved here from yearling bucks, I thought a 2 1/2 yr old was a "big Deer". After getting used to seeing them I now let them pass. Never saw a 3 1/2 or 4 yr before. I like the idea of matching witts with an older animal. Maybe because I am older,,I dunno? The Rack, so many pts,,so high a score, really doesn't mean much. I like the idea of an old guy out smarting an old animal. The older I get the less I care about getting another rack on a wall, or seeing another buck drop dead. I really enjoy being out and seeing the wildlife. I have been changing yr by yr.
 
On a national scale, leasing is really a tiny fraction of the land. I won't get into whether leasing is good or bad BUT it's really such a small issue if you really look at stats on how much ground is leased. I know IL is bad and folks fight against it in IA but over the nation we have deer in almost every state and millions of acres to deer hunt. I really never bought the argument that there's not enough deer hunting ground and it's all tied up. yes, it happens and yes it's worse BUT if you look at facts across nation- a guy willing to put in the effort can find a place to deer hunt. Some areas may be better than others BUT there's PLENTY of room. Even the "Trophy" state of Kansas has TONS of high quality walk on land all over the place.

Folks in IA are super sensitive to the commercialization, leasing, etc. I GET IT, totally understand. I simply feel the argument on a national level of demonizing the trophy hunters is- when you weigh everything out +'s and -'s of each is a good thing and really isn't just trophy hunting like they label it, it's making deer quality, habitat, hunting, land - better. Remember, most states are not like IA and the "if it's brown it's down" mentality (or close to it- 1.5 year old bucks being biggest killing) is by far the majority if you look among all the states that have deer. National level here, these guys demonizing so called "trophy hunters' will end up shooting everyone else in the foot without realizing that's the un-intended consiquence- poor hunting will result. And partially I think it's like the class warfare argument of the Liberals. They end up hosing the wealthy and everyone suffers because they demonize one group and stick it to them. Libs and unintended consequences go hand in hand and it could be a great comparison for this issue of a group trying to beat down the so called "trophy hunting" group with their constant attacks.
 
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I think Liv had it pretty close.

In my personal perspective I’m not anti trophy hunter, I’m anti “hunter out to make a buck off me”.

I don’t have a problem with folks who own land and manage it for “trophy” whitetails (but remember, the land you own or lease and hunt on now was somebody else’s ground before it was yours, think displaced hunter no matter what state). What I dislike is the hunter who kills trophies in every state and then tries to shill a product because they killed a trophy buck.

Would I have tried the broad heads I use because somebody “famous” endorsed them? No. I try things because members on this site, whose opinions I respect, try a product and can comment on the product without the prejudice incurred by receiving a stipend for endorsing a given product.

I used to get several hunting mags. I have dropped all of my subscriptions except for the ones that I receive as a result of a membership. And even those I hardly look at anymore. Why? I got tired of the nonstop advertizing. I know it pays for the mag but celebrity endorsements turn me off to a product before I ever try them. Another ad gimmick that kills me is using a buxom babe to shill a bow. Come on, are you gonna plunk down your hard earned money because Miss Dee Cup says you should? If you shoot the bow she is shilling and it is a piece of crap are ya still gonna by it because two lumps of fat (or silicone) say you should? I sure hope not.

What would be refreshing for me is for the next world record buck to be shot, by me of course (tell me you guys don’t think the same thing). Then out of respect for the buck it might get on a mag cover but only so other hunters can enjoy it. No pics of me with the buck in any publications, it is not named after me (but you gotta admit “The ‘Bonker Buck” has a nice ring to it) it is a piece of creation that should be respected and treated with the awe it inspires in all of us, not as a prop in a photo shoot designed only to sell the newest widget.

In fact, if I shot the next world record, the only place you could see it would be at the IWT booth at the classic. And then Onecam wouldn’t even know it was gonna be there. I’d just show up with a huge box and ask if he had room on his wall. Wouldn’t that be an absolute hoot?

Bottom line for me, kill all the trophies, and a trophy is in the eye of the hunter, you want, just don’t try to sell me stuff because you think you earned the right simply because you shot a "trophy".

The ‘Bonker
 
I agree with you on the commercialization of hunting and how it's out of control. I don't agree with the articles and constant assault on "Trophy Hunters" and their efforts to improve the deer herd, manage for mature & balanced deer herd, enhance habitat, etc, etc, etc....

The commercialization of hunting is a small fraction of what they went after BUT in everyday life of a hunter, it drives me nuts. I agree with you it's way out of hand- it's way beyond a fair/balanced promotion and casual sales approach of smart marketing. It's over-whelming. For the reasons you mentioned and my own, I don't buy videos (videos I used to PAY FOR which were big commercials), get magazines, etc. I like and appreciate good products at a good value BUT the "celebrity effect" does nothing to change my thinking and I tune out. I think it's so over-done that most folks don't even listen anymore to these self important "hunting celebrities"- in many cases, it's become a joke.

For the guys that write these "Trophy Hunters" are ruining hunting- they for many parts go after folks who are managing the land and are not commercializing anything. They essentially are knocking the folks who seek out mature deer, enhance the habitat & in my opinion make the land quality better, make hunter satisfaction better and make a healthier herd. I truly believe these writers are either: people who can't shoot big/old mature bucks, don't have land to hunt mature bucks or jealous of folks that can shoot mature deer.

Really, in the essence, if you get beyond the labels of "Trophy Hunters"- they are attacking your QDM managers, folks who manage for mature deer, folks with the best habitat aound, those who pass up immature/dumb bucks for older/mature/genius bucks, etc. The amount of guys who are paying $5,000 for a guy to bring them out to shoot a 180" buck in a day, have a $2,500 gun, a Mercedes SUV, $1,500 outfits and expect to come home to Fillet Mignon & Lobster is maybe .01% of any hunter i can think of - that's the image they try to bring to mind though. I'm thinking of the other 99%+ that are working the land, spending years of blood/sweat/tears improving it, passing young deer, killing does, taking kids out, loving the hunt. It's a complex issue with 2 sides BUT surely they are targeting groups that have great motives and have made deer hunting in this country the best it's ever been!

Right on with the commercialization problem and we are in agreement, it drives me nuts just like it drives you and most folks I know nuts. Out of hand BUT the market and hunters are responding as such- they can't stand it either and see right through it.
 
Great post Sligh1. I'm not a writer so bare with me. I've enjoyed all comments and can agree and disagree at the same time. Not sure how long magazines have been out there but a long time no doubt. I do remember the first VHS tape I bought. Bowhunting October Whitetails by none other than Gene & Barry Wensel. They have forgotten more about hunting deer than I'll ever know. I respect them to the fullest. So does North American Whitetail magazine. Every other "trophy" in the magazine has had to say which County & State it was harvested in. Not the big buck that they called "Woody". If you look back at the article you wouldn't even know where it was killed. Respect? Wow. They make a fantastic broadhead called the "Wensel Woodsman". Big time hunters big time products. It gets everybody's interest plain and simple. It just comes with the territory.
To say that 99% of us are out there working the land for better whitetail hunting may be an exaggeration as well. I check out IW everyday and am hook line and sinker about whitetails and deer hunting. I am not fortunate enough to own my own land or able to afford to. Congrats to all of you who are. I just love-love whitetails. Maybe I'm over my head being involved with this sport but it's too late now, I'm already hooked to the max.
The magazines have to come up with different articles every month and have had some good ones and bad ones. They have written about all they can write IMO without repeating themselves over and over. Unfortunately, they touched a nerve of yours and I don't blame you 1 bit. So much of all this publicity of "trophy hunters" etc. just comes natural when a sport or hobby is admired to the fullest. Not sure if any of this made sense or helped you out. Best of luck this fall in killing a mature buck.
 
GREAT POST BILL!
I won't post a bill novel on this one. Just clarifying, I'm not saying the other 99% are owning land or improving it (many folks who improve it don't own it too). I'm saying that's the GROUP THEY REALLY ARE TARGETING. Folks who might own or improve land, pass younger bucks, balance herd, improve habitat, etc. Owning land or not, my GUESS would be 1/2 of hunters are doing something along these lines. That's just the 99% of who they are targeting when they lead you to believe they are after these high-roller, greedy, big rack obsessed, rich slobs - WHO, "RUIN THE SPORT" .
Good luck to all you too!
 
I respect them to the fullest. So does North American Whitetail magazine. Every other "trophy" in the magazine has had to say which County & State it was harvested in. Not the big buck that they called "Woody". If you look back at the article you wouldn't even know where it was killed. Respect? Wow.


OK, I got a problem with the Wensel's and Woody.

They sent an unlicensed non-resident on a drive to flush Woody to them in stand. I got this right out of their articles they have published. Now wouldn't the "driver" be part of the hunt? And shouldn't they be licensed? It was a freaking deer drive!

Respect? Read their books, they talk down Iowa residents as well.

Nobody is more commercial than the Wensel's, offering a deer hunting course at their Iowa farm for thousands of dollars. Gimme a break!
 
OK, I got a problem with the Wensel's and Woody.

They sent an unlicensed non-resident on a drive to flush Woody to them in stand. I got this right out of their articles they have published. Now wouldn't the "driver" be part of the hunt? And shouldn't they be licensed? It was a freaking deer drive!

Respect? Read their books, they talk down Iowa residents as well.

Nobody is more commercial than the Wensel's, offering a deer hunting course at their Iowa farm for thousands of dollars. Gimme a break!


Gene Wensel once said people who do not pay to hunt are freeloaders just like the people sucking off the welfare system. With this comment I lost all respect for him and his brother. They leased 2000 acres about 10 minutes from my house and this is the comments he bolstered to the guys hunting next door who hunt for free. Ummm my late father.
 
Gene Wensel once said people who do not pay to hunt are freeloaders just like the people sucking off the welfare system. With this comment I lost all respect for him and his brother. They leased 2000 acres about 10 minutes from my house and this is the comments he bolstered to the guys hunting next door who hunt for free. Ummm my late father.
They are part of the "problem", IMO.

Maybe I should try to get my money back from buying their book. Yeah, right........
 
These guys are morons, they not only cheated but then admitted in the article to using illegal methods in the hunt for that deer.

They should have been ticketed and fined on that deal.
 
Uh oh- I think we need to start a thread called "Commercialization of Hunting". Think we've veered a bit left :) ha
 
Uh oh- I think we need to start a thread called "Commercialization of Hunting". Think we've veered a bit left :) ha
Almost go hand in hand, don't they? Commercialization and trophy hunting?

Wouldn't have either if it was about the meat.
 
I don't think they do actually. I think commercialization is an element of hunting in general- effects the regular guy shooting a doe, duck hunter, fisherman, nascar fan, etc, etc. If you read the articles, there's a vast element that goes after many aspects of deer management that have nothing to do with commercialization (and really try and put a misleading label by calling all these folks "Trophy Hunters" which they use very broadly). Yes, commercialization is a slice of the discussion but by far not the majority.
 
So, I pick up a magazine a week or two ago- i can't remember if it was a F&S or Outdoor Life OR one of the deer hunting mags (main article you'll see on cover)- doesn't matter I suppose,

Since we seem to have quite a few replies to this issue, I think it would be a good idea to list where the article/articles come from so we can make informed decisions and posts.:way:
 
I tell you what, I will look that up. You're right, I was at the gym and read it there. Now, there's articles about once in at least one the "main" hunter magazines (so, maybe each magazine out there only has some form of this once a year).
I guess I read all these articles over the years- most seem to be based along the same line- and just "assumed" folks would know the general article and sentiment I was referring to. There's no shortage of either articles or opinion write-in's on a monthly basis- you see it everywhere- even forums. I was speaking of past experience with these articles, generalities of them and over-all sentiment BUT I will do some diligence and give the article, etc. Agree
 
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