Whats been your experience with deer actually bedding in it? I had about 30 acres on my old farm and honestly it didnt seem like the deer used it that much. I found a few sheds in it but never seen much movement of deer in it or beds. I have had this conversation with others that also thought it would be a deer mecca but they had similar results. It was great for pheasants but I wonder if pure switch (cave in rock) is to tall or thick for deer. I am just on the fence about doing it on another farm, although the field size would be bigger this time, around 50 acres. Thoughts?
I'm gonna give you my round about answer, sorta not answering your question....
I am not the biggest fan of a huge switchgrass plantings but I'll keep doing them in certain cases & do feel like deer utilize them if "put together right". What I kinda mean by that... I had a farm where it had a solid 10 acre bottom of switch, never had a deer bed in it, nothing. Then, I had switchgrass that was 5 acres here, 5 acres there that was mixed with fingers of cedars, brush, timber, etc. It absolutely added to it and made it far more attractive.
Obviously, one can't go out to purposely plant trees and natives together as one will have to dominate (most the time) if you do a lot of burns, etc. or trees could eventually take over. With that said, my favorite cover PERIOD is 2 types.... Native grasses mixed with sparse cedars OR overgrown shrub thickets with cedars, hardwoods mixed. My least favorite cover that contains deer is cow pasture, brome/fescue, wide open clear as a park big timber.
So, if I had 50 acres and COST wasn't the issue, establishment and income.... I'd do CRP which would pay same rate on tree plantings acres per year as grasses (15, more likely 30 years, I could be in a situation where they quit paying me on my tree planting portion- boo-hoo). I'm making this up BUT how I'd likely ideally divide it in a perfect world.... 50 acres - 15 acres of switchgrass in the soils and locations I deemed most effective. 2nd, 10 acres of a Big blue, Indian and massive amount of tall dense forb mix & pollinators. 5 acres of foodplots stratgegically located. 10 acres of shrub plantings (cedar, high bush cranberry, hazelnut, wild plum, gray dogwood, etc, etc). 10 acres of tree plantings that would contain some a % of more expensive or different mindset trees among the general oaks I'm lacking, etc- those would be: apple, pear, persimmon, chestnut, DCO. So, I'd have switchgrass yes, BUT I would not go all in on it. Especially if it was a big % of my land. I want as much diversity, cover changes, food sources, different edge, browse options, etc as I can. If I bottom lined it, I will always like certain types of trees better than switchgrass BUT there's 100% room for them all. My list for native seeds for this spring is pretty nuts. But my plantings are sure not ending with natives - it goes on with forbs to a big degree, lots of shrubs, fruit & nut bearers, etc like I mentioned. I'd include it but have lots of diversity while putting your switchgrass in locations that can be managed long term (like burning) & make sense. Good luck, one schmo's 2 cents.
I am not the biggest fan of a huge switchgrass plantings but I'll keep doing them in certain cases & do feel like deer utilize them if "put together right". What I kinda mean by that... I had a farm where it had a solid 10 acre bottom of switch, never had a deer bed in it, nothing. Then, I had switchgrass that was 5 acres here, 5 acres there that was mixed with fingers of cedars, brush, timber, etc. It absolutely added to it and made it far more attractive.
Obviously, one can't go out to purposely plant trees and natives together as one will have to dominate (most the time) if you do a lot of burns, etc. or trees could eventually take over. With that said, my favorite cover PERIOD is 2 types.... Native grasses mixed with sparse cedars OR overgrown shrub thickets with cedars, hardwoods mixed. My least favorite cover that contains deer is cow pasture, brome/fescue, wide open clear as a park big timber.
So, if I had 50 acres and COST wasn't the issue, establishment and income.... I'd do CRP which would pay same rate on tree plantings acres per year as grasses (15, more likely 30 years, I could be in a situation where they quit paying me on my tree planting portion- boo-hoo). I'm making this up BUT how I'd likely ideally divide it in a perfect world.... 50 acres - 15 acres of switchgrass in the soils and locations I deemed most effective. 2nd, 10 acres of a Big blue, Indian and massive amount of tall dense forb mix & pollinators. 5 acres of foodplots stratgegically located. 10 acres of shrub plantings (cedar, high bush cranberry, hazelnut, wild plum, gray dogwood, etc, etc). 10 acres of tree plantings that would contain some a % of more expensive or different mindset trees among the general oaks I'm lacking, etc- those would be: apple, pear, persimmon, chestnut, DCO. So, I'd have switchgrass yes, BUT I would not go all in on it. Especially if it was a big % of my land. I want as much diversity, cover changes, food sources, different edge, browse options, etc as I can. If I bottom lined it, I will always like certain types of trees better than switchgrass BUT there's 100% room for them all. My list for native seeds for this spring is pretty nuts. But my plantings are sure not ending with natives - it goes on with forbs to a big degree, lots of shrubs, fruit & nut bearers, etc like I mentioned. I'd include it but have lots of diversity while putting your switchgrass in locations that can be managed long term (like burning) & make sense. Good luck, one schmo's 2 cents.
My shrubs, trees & habitat plans are far more diverse than this but for NATIVE GRASSES & Forbs, here's what I ordered this spring for example for some projects. It will change from farm to farm, soils and goals of course. Like I said, I've got lots of other plans from direct seeding to hinge cutting to TSI, to fruit tree planting, tree planting in general, etc, etc. Then foodplots is yet another silly topic I better not even start on. 
Natives. I also will eventually get to Eastern Gamagrass and still deciding if I want to do some this year, otherwise.....
Some of seed is not approved for CRP and I'm not getting it for CRP stuff anyways, getting for other habitat projects/non-crp. and then, stuff like western wheatgrass, I'm mixing with switchgrass & some other things for my waterways I'm dozing up & making really nice... Doing some terracing and nice conserving waterways & I don't like fescue, brome or canary so if I seed the switch by March (meaning i somehow need to have dozer & implements going during a thaw and hope we don't get 5" of rain! Little risky) - later, I will then drill the Western Wheat, Big Blue and a few other things that will work in my locations, it really should turn out really nice and even if I lose the switch, I have enough other things I can keep working on for waterways that will be actually decent habitat & erosion control. Some of my other waterways (the dryer ones will have Round-up ready alfalfa), some "regular moisture" waterways- some will contain some clovers, forbs, regular alfalfa, etc - good for birds, deer, etc. Probably seeding with oats and rye to get some nasty roots down too. Wettest waterways I may put anything from the switchgrass with western wheat to clovers with western wheat, etc, etc. All These areas I'm just going to mow or bale the alfalfa - no herbicides like I do with switch and BB usually. If I did a Plateau/Panoramic type seeding I will use that herbicide and I do maybe have a few spots where I'd do either switch or switch & big blue that I'll use atrazine.
40 lbs Indian Grass
100 lbs Big Blue Stem
120 lbs Cave In Rock Switchgrass
50 lbs Kanlow Switchgrass
60 lbs western Wheat Grass
Blackeyed Susan 20 lbs
Illinois Bundleflower 20 lbs
Crimson Clover (not native)(not NRCS approved for CRP use) 20 lbs
Purple Coneflower 20 lbs
Upright Prairie (longheaded) Coneflower 10 lbs
Lanceleaf Coreopsis (not Iowa NRCS approved) 10 lbs
Perennial Lupine (not Iowa NRCS approved) 30 lbs
Partridge Peas 40 lbs
Purple Prairie Clover 25 lbs
White Prairie Clover 25 lbs
Natives. I also will eventually get to Eastern Gamagrass and still deciding if I want to do some this year, otherwise.....
Some of seed is not approved for CRP and I'm not getting it for CRP stuff anyways, getting for other habitat projects/non-crp. and then, stuff like western wheatgrass, I'm mixing with switchgrass & some other things for my waterways I'm dozing up & making really nice... Doing some terracing and nice conserving waterways & I don't like fescue, brome or canary so if I seed the switch by March (meaning i somehow need to have dozer & implements going during a thaw and hope we don't get 5" of rain! Little risky) - later, I will then drill the Western Wheat, Big Blue and a few other things that will work in my locations, it really should turn out really nice and even if I lose the switch, I have enough other things I can keep working on for waterways that will be actually decent habitat & erosion control. Some of my other waterways (the dryer ones will have Round-up ready alfalfa), some "regular moisture" waterways- some will contain some clovers, forbs, regular alfalfa, etc - good for birds, deer, etc. Probably seeding with oats and rye to get some nasty roots down too. Wettest waterways I may put anything from the switchgrass with western wheat to clovers with western wheat, etc, etc. All These areas I'm just going to mow or bale the alfalfa - no herbicides like I do with switch and BB usually. If I did a Plateau/Panoramic type seeding I will use that herbicide and I do maybe have a few spots where I'd do either switch or switch & big blue that I'll use atrazine.
40 lbs Indian Grass
100 lbs Big Blue Stem
120 lbs Cave In Rock Switchgrass
50 lbs Kanlow Switchgrass
60 lbs western Wheat Grass
Blackeyed Susan 20 lbs
Illinois Bundleflower 20 lbs
Crimson Clover (not native)(not NRCS approved for CRP use) 20 lbs
Purple Coneflower 20 lbs
Upright Prairie (longheaded) Coneflower 10 lbs
Lanceleaf Coreopsis (not Iowa NRCS approved) 10 lbs
Perennial Lupine (not Iowa NRCS approved) 30 lbs
Partridge Peas 40 lbs
Purple Prairie Clover 25 lbs
White Prairie Clover 25 lbs
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Trees are not a option, its already in crp cp1. I got about 85 acres to work with so I was thinking switch around draws and native mixes in bigger fields with 10% food plots. I got some cattle pasture that the cows are gone now so I am thinking it will explode with growth this spring. The farm is lacking on great bedding, trying to change that.
Well, for sure try lots of forbs & diverse native array. Man, i can't believe no trees of any type. that sucks. Maybe seed it down to a secret mix I sell you that you think is grasses but you didn't realize it was acorns, cedar seeds and 10 shrub varieties! Honest mistake!
Honest mistake!Well, for sure try lots of forbs & diverse native array. Man, i can't believe no trees of any type. that sucks. Maybe seed it down to a secret mix I sell you that you think is grasses but you didn't realize it was acorns, cedar seeds and 10 shrub varieties!
I got a ten acre pasture that I could do something like that in, can you even buy a mix like that?
There has been this same talk over on qdma.com.I feel that a large field of NWSG is like a flat bottom lake,the fish will be somewhere sometime.If I add structure to a field of NWSG then that's where the deer will be.I am working on a couple areas in my 25 acres of NWSG that I am working up and doing cedars and shrub plots plots.i already have some sandhill plum planted and this is where I see deer bed,not in the NWSG.I will plant cedar berries and have moved a lot of cedars by hand.Some shrub plots I make pockets of cover and some I have rows of cedars for thermal protection.If you want something that looks nice and is good for large diversity of wildlife NWSG mixes are hard to beat but if you want deer bedding and they have a choice close by I think they will pick shrubs,timber or even standing crops.Where is the guy in Iowa that sells the seeds?
Central Iowa
Life Member
I agree and am planning to do some of this myself how do you plan to do burns to maintain the grass in these areas with the cedars and shrubs?
When you mix in trees, you're going to lose some control of what happens with natives and you will not be able to manage your natives as well, no question. But, you sorta have to weigh it out. There's still a lot of things you can do to promote natives with mowing & spraying even if trees in there. Lighting fire to natives among shrubs & trees isn't going to go well. Ideally, do natives and trees go well together as a long term plan - NO, kinda.... I mean, the trees will usually take over but the 2 do compete with each other. But, short term, 10-20 years, it's some of the best deer cover a guy could get. I absolutely love cedars, shrubs and scrubby trees mixed with natives, I think it's the best cover known to man. Or deer
One solution on better management of both, if you really wanted the best control.... Within one field, separate the areas out - some areas may be all Native grasses and some areas may be all trees/shrubs.Here's where you can get direct seeding stuff, seeds, etc. I got some tree tubes from him last season. On a large or small scale, think about how you'd go about this and I'd talk with this guy. You could, for example collect some of your own acorns and buy some tougher seeds to get from him (not sure if he has stratified Cedar seed but cedar is a bit fussy). I'd also look to him for some shrub seed, etc. Don't know pricing but when I do one on large scale, I'm going to get some.
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southcentral
Member
Sligh1
I sent u a private message. Let me know if u didn't get it
Thanks
I sent u a private message. Let me know if u didn't get it
Thanks
Central Iowa
Life Member
Skip that makes sense. Obviously diversity is best but those little oasis's in the middle of NWSG are always hot spots for bedding. Providing the right mix of seclusion, security and thermal cover.
What you mean? Like trees growing up or r u just talking about the pockets & vast areas that a Native grass field offers? I sure don't disagree, just wondering what you mean? I've had some amazing hunting, all day long, with bucks just zig zagging CRP fields. Some memorable hunts stamped in my mind is sitting on a high spot where I could watch 100+ acres of CRP - a lot of it had "weeds", fingers, a few little plum thickets in it, trees coming up here and there, tall forbs, etc. Was just a circus hunting some of those spots. I agree, there's some oasis's of buck crazed CRP out there and why Switch will always be part of my plan, no doubt.
I got one guy down the road from me with a vast amount of switch and I know he does "pretty well"
Central Iowa
Life Member
Yep little pockets of thickets , cedars, willows, trees etc. right out there in the NWSGs like a chain of cover from here to there awesome even better if you have terrain features like humps etc, in those spots I really think social isolation is a big deal for a lot of older bucks like a bedroom they can shut the door in and not be bothered and be able to come out and socialize on their terms. Oh yea I remember that fella down the road he's a little different but an ok guy!What you mean? Like trees growing up or r u just talking about the pockets & vast areas that a Native grass field offers? I sure don't disagree, just wondering what you mean? I've had some amazing hunting, all day long, with bucks just zig zagging CRP fields. Some memorable hunts stamped in my mind is sitting on a high spot where I could watch 100+ acres of CRP - a lot of it had "weeds", fingers, a few little plum thickets in it, trees coming up here and there, tall forbs, etc. Was just a circus hunting some of those spots. I agree, there's some oasis's of buck crazed CRP out there and why Switch will always be part of my plan, no doubt. I got one guy down the road from me with a vast amount of switch and I know he does "pretty well"
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DannyBoy
Well-Known Member
If you're looking to maximize deer use, mow paths from pocket of cover to pocket of cover, in your nwsg's. Make them as skinny as possible. This is not such a good practice if upland birds are on your management radar, as it creates interior predation entirely more possible, but the deer sure will love having easy travel lanes through heavy cover, leading to those little bedrooms.
Central Iowa
Life Member
Yep really makes a difference now if I could make tunnels for me to get in and out of my set ups!
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LoessHillsArcher
PMA Member
We like to keep our NWSG and switch pockets small and always try to but them up against thick pockets of timber. Our switch plantings always get "weedy" as well and the wildlife love it, although not as easy on the eyes. To burn we'll just mow the edges of the switch a few feet and back burn to keep the fire as under control and out of the trees as possible. Easier to control burning the switch that's near trees when it's mowed down vs. 5ft tall and flames 3x that high!