Drones and future management…..

[Rous14]

Really excited to have my farm (and my neighbors on two sides) flown this week. Chatting w the guy that is coming out to do it tonight for quite awhile and what a fascinating job he has. I think I’m more excited to talk to him about his insight on the state of the deer herd in the Midwest then I am seeing what’s in my area. He spent the last 4 days in Iowa on a lot good farms and some of the info he was sharing was super interesting. Can’t wait to talk to him more.
Got me thinking that for years I’ve always thought that in general we and the DNR could track the herd a little bit in terms of harvest numbers, deer vehicle accidents, etc…Can obviously track buck harvest vs doe harvest trends. But I’ve always thought a giant missing piece was the inability to track the trend in the “quality“ (which is typically tied to age structure) of the bucks. We all talk about the decline in “big bucks” compared to 10-15 years ago. Seems like it would be incredibly useful data to know exactly how many 150-160” how many 170-190” and how many 200” deer there are year over year for a 5-10 year study in say a 30,000 acre study area across 6-8 different counties in any given state. Wouldn’t take more than 4-5 weeks to do it. Would also provide extremely accurate info on deer population numbers as well as buck to doe ratios.

I can think of all kinds of problems/potential issues too but is there a way to do this in a productive/educational way do you think?

 

[JNRBRONC]

If people knew “hot spots”, they’d get pounded harder. Another technology that could back fire.


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[Snail3496]

Drones will do nothing but bad things for the future of deer hunting. They are incredible for recovering deer, but will inevitably get in the wrong hands and be abused as they become more affordable and common.

Only way to limit to legit drone businesses is to have steep annual permit fees and stiff punishment if caught without.

 

[tall@wide]

I'm not sure how drone surveys or drone recoveries are legally done? Drones are required to remain within line of sight, so unless they are on a high point how do they keep the drone in sight? Even on a high point, I doubt that it could be legally done with the line of sight regulation.

 

[Windlooker]

The line of sight thing is a joke. Defeats the purpose of having a drone. Nobody keeps them in sight and nearly impossible to enforce. You’re gonna see a host of legislation introduced to control these things. We’ll see if it helps with intrusion.

 

[Rous14]

If people knew “hot spots”, they’d get pounded harder. Another technology that could back fire.


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Yea I kinda thought the same thing. Would need to be a very general report from the dnr…..a few different charts showing buck:doe ratios, total deer #’s, and then the quality breakdown. Nobody would really know other than maybe by county name where these controlled surveys would be done.

I think aerial surveys (by plane) have been part of management plans/population surveys for a long time. Maybe not in Midwest, more out west, not sure. This would be along the same lines only it would be way more accurate and detailed data from which to make management plans from.

 

[Rous14]

Drones will do nothing but bad things for the future of deer hunting. They are incredible for recovering deer, but will inevitably get in the wrong hands and be abused as they become more affordable and common.

Only way to limit to legit drone businesses is to have steep annual permit fees and stiff punishment if caught without.

Agreed about the wrong hands part for sure and the stiff penalties if caught. Thats why I’m kinda thinking this would be a dnr led deal or better yet a conservation group led by folks like Skip that could provide this data up the food chain and take some of the management or at least data collection ”in to our own hands”. Maybe they hire out a 3rd party contractor but it would be overseen and done by the same departments that conduct herd surveys now that they use to determine management plans at a county/state level.
Just thinking out loud.
Again it just seems like we are lacking a way to measure the quality/age of the herd. Theres been talk on here about something else being wrong (chemicals, traits in the beans/corn, etc…) that seems to be reducing the antler growth of bucks. This would be a way to truly track that I think. In order for a possible solution to be considered the problem has to be quantified first kind of thing.

 

[hillrunner]

I could see the merit in a study like this and i don't think it's a bad idea, however, I'm extremely wary of mixing drones and deer hunting in any way. I'm afraid it will become like every other technology that wasn't a big deal at first. Just like cell cams, it's not a big deal when it's just a few guys using 1 or 2 of them. Then all of a sudden they get so cheap that it's multiple cameras for every hunter, that changes the game.
Drones could very well have unintended consequences that we haven't even thought of yet. I'd like to see a hard stop on all future technology for hunting. I doubt I'll get what I want though.

 

[newfarmer]

Agreed about the wrong hands part for sure and the stiff penalties if caught. Thats why I’m kinda thinking this would be a dnr led deal or better yet a conservation group led by folks like Skip that could provide this data up the food chain and take some of the management or at least data collection ”in to our own hands”. Maybe they hire out a 3rd party contractor but it would be overseen and done by the same departments that conduct herd surveys now that they use to determine management plans at a county/state level.
Just thinking out loud.
Again it just seems like we are lacking a way to measure the quality/age of the herd. Theres been talk on here about something else being wrong (chemicals, traits in the beans/corn, etc…) that seems to be reducing the antler growth of bucks. This would be a way to truly track that I think. In order for a possible solution to be considered the problem has to be quantified first kind of thing.

How do you measure the “quality” and “age” of the herd with a drone exactly? Serious question.

 

[Rous14]

How do you measure the “quality” and “age” of the herd with a drone exactly? Serious question.

So it probably is never an exact science but an educated drone operator can tell you out of the 20 bucks that n your farm how many were in the 150-170 range and how many were 170 plus. They can zoom right in on them and tell you if the buck has a drop tine or has shed for example. I’m simply correlating high scoring deer with 4/5 plus old deer (not always the case but typically). Impossible to judge age with a drone but could definitely get a ballpark assessment of how many bucks you have that are 1-2yr olds say vs 3 or older. Again, not an exact science but far better data imo then anything we have now.

 

[Rous14]

I could see the merit in a study like this and i don't think it's a bad idea, however, I'm extremely wary of mixing drones and deer hunting in any way. I'm afraid it will become like every other technology that wasn't a big deal at first. Just like cell cams, it's not a big deal when it's just a few guys using 1 or 2 of them. Then all of a sudden they get so cheap that it's multiple cameras for every hunter, that changes the game.
Drones could very well have unintended consequences that we haven't even thought of yet. I'd like to see a hard stop on all future technology for hunting. I doubt I'll get what I want though.

I agree with you. That’s why I’m envisioning this being something at more of a DNR level. This is a management tool for state agencies or maybe conservation groups NOT something the hunting public should be doing. It has to be done on a large enough scale to provide accurate trends. Me and you doing this on the weekend on our farm and our buddies farm doesn’t get us anywhere.

 

[booneriverbucks]

Who pays for this??


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[Windlooker]

You do. lol. I’m not so sure the dnr cares about age structure or trends. Iowas elevation to Land of the Giants wasn’t on purpose and I will guess that many dnr officers wish it weren’t so.

That said I believe the dnrs main goal is numbers; not age structure or trophy potential. Reduced numbers mean less Farm Bureau bitching, less insurance company bitching, safer driving and an overall calmer environment. That’s it. The measurement used is farmer input and car crash data.

 

[JNRBRONC]

That’s why I’m envisioning this being something at more of a DNR level.

I don't think that the DNR truly cares about "producing 170" deer". They are focused on maintaining a certain healthy population level that "balances" the whims of hunters, farmers, insurance agencies, and the general populus and also fits within the carrying capacity of the land.

 

[booneriverbucks]

You do. lol. I’m not so sure the dnr cares about age structure or trends. Iowas elevation to Land of the Giants wasn’t on purpose and I will guess that many dnr officers wish it weren’t so.

That said I believe the dnrs main goal is numbers; not age structure or trophy potential. Reduced numbers mean less Farm Bureau bitching, less insurance company bitching, safer driving and an overall calmer environment. That’s it. The measurement used is farmer input and car crash data.

Unfortunately, I was reading this thread while waiting for the Iowa Department of Revenue’s website to load so that’s what made me think of that.


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[Sligh1]

I’ll save a long rant but there’s a lot of history, data, biology & reasons the iowa dnr has actually done thing for age class (having more mature deer). The gun season was dually designed for farmers & harvest but as much about getting guns out of the rut…. It was genius before its time that was done on purpose for the reasons we reap the benefits & understand today. Through out the last 50 years or so, there’s been evs & flows of dnr leadership (& even political will & capital) to keep quality high. Age class balanced. Deer #’s are a focus & a target of farm bureau but make no mistake… the dnr & most politicians that are educated on deer…. understand our quality, balance & age structure are superior, unique & something we need to protect.

On drones…. Long story short…. Recovery is great. Law needs to be written so rules are clear & there’s some stipulations on being a licensed pilot & each recovery is logged with dnr with data on location, hunter, yes/no recovery, etc. Pilot/licensing Fee so dnr can administer program. The goal in simplistic terms for recovery is: more deer are recovered so folks are tagged out & don’t go shoot another buck VS abuse of the technology. For example, if “1,000 deer” got recovered that otherwise wouldn’t have & theres “50 cases of abuse” …. The NET benefit is positive. Anything can be abused, laws need to be written to minimize it & maximize the positive use of the technology. There’s a way to thread this needle with common sense all sides can get behind IMO.

 

[booneriverbucks]

I’ll save a long rant but there’s a lot of history, data, biology & reasons the iowa dnr has actually done thing for age class (having more mature deer). The gun season was dually designed for farmers & harvest but as much about getting guns out of the rut…. It was genius before its time that was done on purpose for the reasons we reap the benefits & understand today. Through out the last 50 years or so, there’s been evs & flows of dnr leadership (& even political will & capital) to keep quality high. Age class balanced. Deer #’s are a focus & a target of farm bureau but make no mistake… the dnr & most politicians that are educated on deer…. understand our quality, balance & age structure are superior, unique & something we need to protect.

On drones…. Long story short…. Recovery is great. Law needs to be written so rules are clear & there’s some stipulations on being a licensed pilot & each recovery is logged with dnr with data on yes/no recovery. Fee so dnr can administer program. The goal in simplistic terms for recovery is: more deer are recovered so folks are tagged out & don’t go shoot another buck VS abuse of the technology. For example, if “1,000 deer” got recovered that otherwise wouldn’t have & theres “50 cases of abuse” …. The NET benefit is positive. Anything can be abused, laws need to be written to minimize it & maximize the positive use of the technology. There’s a way to thread this needle with common sense all sides can get behind IMO.

I don’t disagree with much you said but we absolutely need to do everything we can to keep drones out of hunting. They should have no place in hunting… At all!!! All the benefits you stated are %100 true but are totally unenforceable. The government has not been able to enforce hardly any regulations that pertain to drones yet regarding pretty much anything drones can be used for. We have to avoid this whole subject at all costs!! Do not give an inch when it comes to drones!!!! 24/7 surveillance is the end game!! Please don’t give this BS the time of day. There is absolutely no benefit in the long term!!!!


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[Sligh1]

I don’t disagree with much you said but we absolutely need to do everything we can to keep drones out of hunting. They should have no place in hunting… At all!!! All the benefits you stated are %100 true but are totally unenforceable. The government has not been able to enforce hardly any regulations that pertain to drones yet regarding pretty much anything drones can be used for. We have to avoid this whole subject at all costs!! Do not give an inch when it comes to drones!!!! 24/7 surveillance is the end game!! Please don’t give this BS the time of day. There is absolutely no benefit in the long term!!!!


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Do u feel that RECOVERY of shot deer is putting drones into hunting? Just wanna make sure i understand right. & in either case…. I’d say I agree with u far more than disagree. I see a clear case where drones could be used to locate & hunt deer & I absolutely agree that “cannot fly”.
We also need to understand the realities & make laws accordingly…. We cannot ban drones. Next- we can’t ban someone from looking at “deer” or anything like it with a drone. We must have Clear language or more clear language on use of drones & hunting. Just like if I fly a plane over Alaska…. I can’t hunt for xyz time. Can’t ban planes like we aren’t gonna ban drones. We need good laws limiting them or clear language & penalties. Whether it’s Easy or hard to enforce is secondary in discussion after clearly understood laws.

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

I have a funny drone story from TODAY. I was flying over a property with no road frontage (half mile off road). I was surveying trees for CRP management purposes. All of the sudden this eagle come swooping in. I tried "running away" with drone. Then the eagle 100% bumped drone. It stayed airborne fine. I flew away but could see the shadow of the eagle on the ground following drone. Drone got back to my vehicle fine. Eagle was fine. Eagle did not like drone.

As for drone use today... saved me a couple hours walking surveying trees. Flew for 5 minutes.

 

[booneriverbucks]

Do u feel that RECOVERY of shot deer is putting drones into hunting? Just wanna make sure i understand right. & in either case…. I’d say I agree with u far more than disagree. I see a clear case where drones could be used to locate & hunt deer & I absolutely agree that “cannot fly”.
We also need to understand the realities & make laws accordingly…. We cannot ban drones. Next- we can’t ban someone from looking at “deer” or anything like it with a drone. We must have Clear language or more clear language on use of drones & hunting. Just like if I fly a plane over Alaska…. I can’t hunt for xyz time. Can’t ban planes like we aren’t gonna ban drones. We need good laws limiting them or clear language & penalties. Whether it’s Easy or hard to enforce is secondary in discussion after clearly understood laws.

PLEASE believe me on this!! Drone technology is absolutely our generations fight. In LIFE!! Not just hunting. This issue is way way bigger than recovering a deer.. If you value your freedom at all you should be highly skeptical about any future regulations relaxing the current use of drones. This subject is much bigger than deer hunting and I guarantee you there are plenty of people laughing at us that there are people worried about how this is going to affect deer hunting…. Deer hunting is small potatoes in the grand scheme of the drone world.


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