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Ehd time again?

Boonervilleusa said:
CWD is much more common in farmed cervids. The roots of CWD can be traced back to Colorado State University exposing captive Mule Deer to sheep infected with Scrapie.

EHD is a totally different thing, and has always “been around” but to some others’ points, outbreaks seem to be more frequent and severe now; I personally subscribe to the theory that cattle contribute to the spread of EHD.


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I understand Booner, but not sure how that’s relevant to my post though? I’m not discussing or talking about CWD at all. Simply asking why deer farmers across the country lose deer, and sometimes similar to wild heards a pretty significant amount of deer to ehd, if they control how their herd intake their water needs (and I’m only assuming this is what they do, have no experience w it directly). In other words, if we could magically get rid of all ponds and creeks that are supposedly to blame here and replaced them with steel water tanks then, based on my understanding, the threat of EHD should be nearly eliminated in that hypothetical. And that’s essentially what a deer farmer has no?
 
Rous14 said:
I understand Booner, but not sure how that’s relevant to my post though? I’m not discussing or talking about CWD at all. Simply asking why deer farmers across the country lose deer, and sometimes similar to wild heards a pretty significant amount of deer to ehd, if they control how their herd intake their water needs (and I’m only assuming this is what they do, have no experience w it directly). In other words, if we could magically get rid of all ponds and creeks that are supposedly to blame here and replaced them with steel water tanks then, based on my understanding, the threat of EHD should be nearly eliminated in that hypothetical. And that’s essentially what a deer farmer has no?
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EHD doesn't come from water. It comes from biting midges, commonly known as no-see-ums. Keeping water in tanks in a captive environment does help, as it reduces the number of places the midge can lay eggs. But consider most deer/elk farms are on only a few acres. Unless those animals are completely contained indoors, midges have the ability to fly in/out of the pens. All it takes is a neighboring property to have conditions for the midge (mud) and those midges can/will bite the deer in the pen. That's why die offs are often catastrophic in pens. All the animals are contained in a very small area relative to what their natural range would be. If midges invade a 4 acre pen, good chance the majority are getting bit. If those deer were spread out over 400 acres in the wild, chances are not as many get bit.
Bottom line is, ultimately it doesn't matter really what anyone does. I have talked to people who have used feed supplements, put additives in water tanks, fogged ponds, put rocks around ponds, you name it...Doesn't work.
 
"Bottom line is, ultimately it doesn't matter really what anyone does. I have talked to people who have used feed supplements, put additives in water tanks, fogged ponds, put rocks around ponds, you name it...Doesn't work."

Now that's encouraging ........... good to know but depressing to hear. I know the farmers need a late frost for crop development on late planted acres but I would selfishly love to see a hard frost any day now.
 
Is it possible that these midge flies are favoring something in the mud that is found in higher concentrations in Warren county? I am just kind of thinking out loud here hoping to turn a light bulb on with somebody. I would love, so would everyone else, to find a common factor that makes these things strive in certain areas. Maybe it is cattle/wet spring combo heck I don't know but I would sure like to get it figured out.
 
spencer52356 said:
Is it possible that these midge flies are favoring something in the mud that is found in higher concentrations in Warren county? I am just kind of thinking out loud here hoping to turn a light bulb on with somebody. I would love, so would everyone else, to find a common factor that makes these things strive in certain areas. Maybe it is cattle/wet spring combo heck I don't know but I would sure like to get it figured out.
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My best guess is that is just where the conditions happened to be the ripest this go round. In 2012 it was Decatur Clark and Wayne Counties that were seeing the massive die offs. It probably takes a certain recipe if you will to create the perfect breeding conditions for the Midge. Different weather patterns could account for why different pockets of the state get hit at different times. Much like there are certain parts of counties that have had virtually no drought all summer and other parts of the same county that have been bone dry and all the grass in peoples yards is brown


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Correct me if I’m wrong...this is the way I understand it. The midge only spreads the disease. It needs to bite a disease carrying deer or cow in order to spread it. The disease over winters in cattle(I think a cow carries the disease 9 or 10 months with little sign) to start the process again in the spring when the midge emerges and bites the cow then a deer. The midge don’t come out of the mud infecting deer. I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong
 
Boonervilleusa said:
CWD is much more common in farmed cervids. The roots of CWD can be traced back to Colorado State University exposing captive Mule Deer to sheep infected with Scrapie.

EHD is a totally different thing, and has always “been around” but to some others’ points, outbreaks seem to be more frequent and severe now; I personally subscribe to the theory that cattle contribute to the spread of EHD.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I understand Booner, but not sure how that’s relevant to my post though? I’m not discussing or talking about CWD at all. Simply asking why deer farmers across the country lose deer, and sometimes similar to wild heards a pretty significant amount of deer to ehd, if they control how their herd intake their water needs (and I’m only assuming this is what they do, have no experience w it directly). In other words, if we could magically get rid of all ponds and creeks that are supposedly to blame here and replaced them with steel water tanks then, based on my understanding, the threat of EHD should be nearly eliminated in that hypothetical. And that’s essentially what a deer farmer has no?
Boonervilleusa said:
EHD doesn't come from water. It comes from biting midges, commonly known as no-see-ums. Keeping water in tanks in a captive environment does help, as it reduces the number of places the midge can lay eggs. But consider most deer/elk farms are on only a few acres. Unless those animals are completely contained indoors, midges have the ability to fly in/out of the pens. All it takes is a neighboring property to have conditions for the midge (mud) and those midges can/will bite the deer in the pen. That's why die offs are often catastrophic in pens. All the animals are contained in a very small area relative to what their natural range would be. If midges invade a 4 acre pen, good chance the majority are getting bit. If those deer were spread out over 400 acres in the wild, chances are not as many get bit.
Bottom line is, ultimately it doesn't matter really what anyone does. I have talked to people who have used feed supplements, put additives in water tanks, fogged ponds, put rocks around ponds, you name it...Doesn't work.
Click to expand...

Wasn’t suggesting that EHD comes from water, but from the midges that come from or hatch in the muddy flats and banks associated with those ponds and creeks and therefore if like at a deer farm one didn’t have any water/mud sources and watered the animals from steel tanks it would just seem to me that the occurrence rate of deer that die would be significantly lower (and maybe there’s data out there to suggest this is the case and I just don’t know it).
But what you’re saying about the deer farms being small enclosed areas certainly makes sense as far as if the midges are present in that pin then certainly the results would have a higher chance of being significant in numbers. And I agree 100% about nothing we can do to prevent it which is what makes it so dang frustrating.
 
Thinkin Rut said:
Correct me if I’m wrong...this is the way I understand it. The midge only spreads the disease. It needs to bite a disease carrying deer or cow in order to spread it. The disease over winters in cattle(I think a cow carries the disease 9 or 10 months with little sign) to start the process again in the spring when the midge emerges and bites the cow then a deer. The midge don’t come out of the mud infecting deer. I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong
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Correct.
They are not born infected.
 
Boonervilleusa said:
My best guess is that is just where the conditions happened to be the ripest this go round. In 2012 it was Decatur Clark and Wayne Counties that were seeing the massive die offs. It probably takes a certain recipe if you will to create the perfect breeding conditions for the Midge. Different weather patterns could account for why different pockets of the state get hit at different times. Much like there are certain parts of counties that have had virtually no drought all summer and other parts of the same county that have been bone dry and all the grass in peoples yards is brown


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Please explain how you believe cattle are to blame after this post?? Cattle are in those areas EVERY year. The movement of cattle happened 20 years ago even 30 years ago. New strain down south, ok. Higher deer densities throughout and a south wind could move the midges just the same. Even so, ehd is here now. Cattle or deer being the local vector, removing cattle from the equation doesn't fix nor end ehd. Thoughts?
 
Thinkin Rut said:
What gets me is all the hype and fear mongering that was/is put into the CWD to add a few seasons and wipe out some targeted areas, now we have a real problem and you hear very little from the DNR. Where are the town hall meetings now? What IS their game plan?
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There is a BIG difference between the concerns of CWD versus EHD. CWD has a clinical possibility of infecting humans. EHD, though devastating to varying levels of deer herds, has little expectation to transfer to humans. Those of us who have interest in deer should have an interest in EHD. Every person should likely be aware of CWD thus the differing responses.
 
Not sure about total deer / mile population data but the 2017 harvest stats I saw showed antlered harvest / mile and the top 10 counties that year were as follows:

2017 Antlered Harvest / Square Mile:
1 - Clayton - 2.42/mile - 4,478 total harvest
2 - Van Buren - 2.31 - 2,794 total
3 - Allamakee - 2.22 - 3,315 total
4 - Lucas - 2.13 - 2,106 total
5 - Warren - 2.09 - 2,767 total
6 - Madison - 2.00 - 2,849 total
7 - Monroe - 1.96 - 2,036 total
8 - Clarke - 1.88 - 1,921 total
9 - Wayne - 1.82 - 2,202 total
10 - Appanoose - 1.74 - 2,009 total

This is harvest data not population data. I suspect counties like Decatur, with pockets of highly managed / large tract neighborhoods, may have actual population results that are higher than some counties listed above.
 
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The antlerless quota corresponds very closely to population levels (counties with the most tags have the most deer)

Obviously this was before ehd....
So epicenter of ehd had the most deer in southern iowa. Maybe a coincidence.... maybe not.

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IowaBowHunter1983 said:
The antlerless quota corresponds very closely to population levels

Obviously this was before ehd....
So epicenter of ehd had the most deer in southern iowa. Maybe a coincidence.... maybe not.
Click to expand...

Mother Nature is a B_tch. When populations are high, diseases are readily transmitted. Not a coincidence IMO.

Had a friend who raised deer, talked about how others were using fly spray on their prize EXPENSIVE bucks that they carried a bank note on.... Nothing special about pen deer to protect them from the virus.




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Can EHD be transmitted from deer to deer? Or deer to other livestock? I thought no and it was strictly from the midge but the news article said otherwise
 
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