farmerdale1973
New Member
Chased up 3 big groups of quail today 20-30 birds in each group out of a wide grassy fence row. Odd sight in NE Iowa but nice to see.
Thinkin Rut
PMA Member
Upland birds didn't leave us, we left them. Great job on the bird and habitat improvements!
Daver
PMA Member
Congrats on that shot...both my son and I had quail around our deer stand a couple of different times this fall. The slightest movement from above and they were skeedaddling! So you must be more stealthy than we were.
Just as an FYI, there is a lot of good info on the web about quail habitat management. I have read some of it and try to apply it to my place. My goal is to create 5 or 6 "micro-habitats" of about 10-25 acres apiece to meet all the needs of a covey or two year round. I would say right now I have about 2 to 2-1/2 of these areas going now and I already have several coveys and probably 60-75 total birds around.
I think I can get it to where I have 100-200 wild birds on my place year round.
longspurs
Active Member
Kudos to you for making the effort with your quail. It's a shame more people don't get on board with ideas like that. I can remember when I was a little kid my dad would make annual trips to southern Iowa for quail. It's definitely something I'd love to do with him someday. Again, glad you're enjoying the bounty of your efforts.
-Longspurs-
-Longspurs-
murphranch
Member
Here in okla the birds got rather scarce for the last ten years. We started using the serragator bird rearing boxes for a fix to our bird hunts on our ranch. Just family and friends. Never believed the pen birds or liberated birds would survive our poor shooting and the following year, but over time a few have made it and reproduced. We always banded any birds released or turned out and a FEW made it. Anything and everything helps. Hated seeing a generation or two of dogs and kids not getting to have that covey rise at their feet and the ohh poop look on their faces.
Central Iowa
Life Member
Daver, any good quail habitat links you could share? We have seen a couple smaller coveys this year for the first time in awhile and would like to see a few more.
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Daver
PMA Member
Here are a few links below, I also have other stuff on the hard drive of a now failed PC that is sitting here next to me. I intend to get certain files off of it yet, if I can. Hopefully I can post those at some future point in time.
Although I know I have scratched around enough to help the quail habitat on my place, I also do not consider myself an expert on the subject. Hopefully I am an "intermediate" level quail rancher. Nevertheless, here are some ideas, not necessarily in order of importance, that I think are key to the success that I have had.
But first, a quick story...approximately 5 years ago a neighbor of mine, who happens to have had first hand experience in this neighborhood going back over 40 years, told me that "back in the day", he could step off of the porch, load his gun and be back home in 45 minutes with a limit of quail more often than not. His "milk run" included a segment of what is now my farm.
From his history, I was able to learn about how the habitat on my farm was back then and the short version is that the tillable ground, now in the CRP program for about the 26th consecutive year BTW, was pastured to cattle and the "timber" mixed in the pasture was young. (From what I have gathered, the pasture was a key, key component as it provided a "floor" for the quail to run around on all year long.)
As I began to read more about quail habitat, I realized that my mostly brome "sea" of CRP was actually preventing me from having more quail. The characteristics of brome are such that quail cannot walk over it and they cannot walk under it either. They are very small birds and their little feet have to be able to walk on something firm.
1. I have converted section of my brome CRP over to switchgrass. At this time I still only have less 3 standing acres of good switch, but more coming with recent plantings too. But that little bit of switch I think is where "my" quail spend 90% of their time around.
2. I planted milo this year and purposed to locate the small .5 to 1 acre milo plots right next to where I had switch. (I have read that quail habitat should be thought of in 15-30 chunks. You have to ALL of what a quail need in that space, so we don't want to spread out the various habitat needs over say 100 acres.)
2. My neighbor that I referenced earlier also raises bees on his place, which is immediately north of my place. As a part of his bee keeping activities he has planted yellow clover and he was amazed at how many quail were in his yellow clover field. In short, the "vines" grow overhead and create a canopy with almost 100% bare ground under those vines. Perfect! Overhead cover, bare ground AND food in the form of tiny seeds from the dried clover flowers. I plan on adding about an acre of yellow clover this year, 2 separate 1/2 acre fields worth.
3. I began planting EW a few years ago for screening food plots. Only I found that the pheasants and the quail were in the stuff all winter long. This past year I planted more, including a block of EW that was only 30' wide and 150' long. But, the quail are there every time I walk it. I will be planting more this year too.
4. Bare ground - either by fire, disking, spraying gly or some combination of all three, I always make sure to have 2-3 acres per year that start out as bare dirt early in the season, but then weeds spring up and I just let them go throughout the summer. This lassez faire approach provides bare ground, food in the form weed seeds, and overhead cover. Pheasants and quail both use these areas A LOT.
5. Edge feathering timber edges - I have done enough of this to see the benefit for birds as well as deer. Again, bare ground can be found below and good overhead cover can be found above.
6. Last years rye - I also leave 2-3 acres of last years rye just grow through the spring and into the summer. This provides great cover for nesting and I know deer will also fawn in these areas, along with game birds nesting/hiding.
Those are some of the keys. I look forward to doing even more habitat manipulation this year. I want to add some plum thickets in addition to what I have done already.
http://www.noble.org/ag/wildlife/quailmngt/
http://www.fwrc.msstate.edu/pubs/cp33_clay.pdf
http://www.fwrc.msstate.edu/pubs/nrcs.pdf
http://extension.missouri.edu/explorepdf/miscpubs/mp0902.pdf
Although I know I have scratched around enough to help the quail habitat on my place, I also do not consider myself an expert on the subject. Hopefully I am an "intermediate" level quail rancher. Nevertheless, here are some ideas, not necessarily in order of importance, that I think are key to the success that I have had.
But first, a quick story...approximately 5 years ago a neighbor of mine, who happens to have had first hand experience in this neighborhood going back over 40 years, told me that "back in the day", he could step off of the porch, load his gun and be back home in 45 minutes with a limit of quail more often than not. His "milk run" included a segment of what is now my farm.
From his history, I was able to learn about how the habitat on my farm was back then and the short version is that the tillable ground, now in the CRP program for about the 26th consecutive year BTW, was pastured to cattle and the "timber" mixed in the pasture was young. (From what I have gathered, the pasture was a key, key component as it provided a "floor" for the quail to run around on all year long.)
As I began to read more about quail habitat, I realized that my mostly brome "sea" of CRP was actually preventing me from having more quail. The characteristics of brome are such that quail cannot walk over it and they cannot walk under it either. They are very small birds and their little feet have to be able to walk on something firm.
1. I have converted section of my brome CRP over to switchgrass. At this time I still only have less 3 standing acres of good switch, but more coming with recent plantings too. But that little bit of switch I think is where "my" quail spend 90% of their time around.
2. I planted milo this year and purposed to locate the small .5 to 1 acre milo plots right next to where I had switch. (I have read that quail habitat should be thought of in 15-30 chunks. You have to ALL of what a quail need in that space, so we don't want to spread out the various habitat needs over say 100 acres.)
2. My neighbor that I referenced earlier also raises bees on his place, which is immediately north of my place. As a part of his bee keeping activities he has planted yellow clover and he was amazed at how many quail were in his yellow clover field. In short, the "vines" grow overhead and create a canopy with almost 100% bare ground under those vines. Perfect! Overhead cover, bare ground AND food in the form of tiny seeds from the dried clover flowers. I plan on adding about an acre of yellow clover this year, 2 separate 1/2 acre fields worth.
3. I began planting EW a few years ago for screening food plots. Only I found that the pheasants and the quail were in the stuff all winter long. This past year I planted more, including a block of EW that was only 30' wide and 150' long. But, the quail are there every time I walk it. I will be planting more this year too.
4. Bare ground - either by fire, disking, spraying gly or some combination of all three, I always make sure to have 2-3 acres per year that start out as bare dirt early in the season, but then weeds spring up and I just let them go throughout the summer. This lassez faire approach provides bare ground, food in the form weed seeds, and overhead cover. Pheasants and quail both use these areas A LOT.
5. Edge feathering timber edges - I have done enough of this to see the benefit for birds as well as deer. Again, bare ground can be found below and good overhead cover can be found above.
6. Last years rye - I also leave 2-3 acres of last years rye just grow through the spring and into the summer. This provides great cover for nesting and I know deer will also fawn in these areas, along with game birds nesting/hiding.
Those are some of the keys. I look forward to doing even more habitat manipulation this year. I want to add some plum thickets in addition to what I have done already.
http://www.noble.org/ag/wildlife/quailmngt/
http://www.fwrc.msstate.edu/pubs/cp33_clay.pdf
http://www.fwrc.msstate.edu/pubs/nrcs.pdf
http://extension.missouri.edu/explorepdf/miscpubs/mp0902.pdf
DannyBoy
Well-Known Member
Daver, I didnt ask the question but I appreciate you taking the time to answer it. I am always curious to hear the recipes behind success stories, ESPECIALLY when it comes to quail.
I think everything you are doing is awesome and after reading your post it sounds like one way or another, you and your neighbors have put together all of the essential components.
The yellow clover provides nesting (I have a hunch there is other nesting cover around, though) and the combination of the clover and the early successional habitat you are creating by disking/spraying is fantastic brood rearing habitat! There is a reason missouri turns a large percentage of its public land black every year!! You mention food in the form of seeds often, but dont forget about the insects that the clover and annual weeds attract! A pheasant or quail chick doesnt make it past a few weeks old without insects, and a lot of them. Sounds like you have plenty of food and some winter cover, as well.
I love talking to the good ol boys that used to pound quail back in the day. I think its no coincidence that he mentioned "young timber". I think the maturation of our timbers in southern iowa has really shrunk the amount of good quail habitat we have. Soooo many people argue that turkeys push out pheasants and quail but it is clear to me that our timbers and woody draws have just grown to the point that turkey will thrive in them and upland birds will not. A great way to combat that issue is edge feathering to soften up the edges and create transition zones from grass/ag to timber.
Im a little suprised that your ew isnt too thick for the birds??? Though, I suppose its not a whole lot different than a big patch of giant ragweed.
when it comes time to renew your old brome crp, think hard about upgrading to a cp25 or cp42. Those diverse, forb intense native seedings blow just about anything else out of the water as far as nesting/brood rearing goes. Also, look into adding some diversity to your shrub thickets - plum, dogwood, highbush cranberry and other species work well together and will provide flowers (insects) and berries at different times during the growing season. Keep up the great work!!
I think everything you are doing is awesome and after reading your post it sounds like one way or another, you and your neighbors have put together all of the essential components.
The yellow clover provides nesting (I have a hunch there is other nesting cover around, though) and the combination of the clover and the early successional habitat you are creating by disking/spraying is fantastic brood rearing habitat! There is a reason missouri turns a large percentage of its public land black every year!! You mention food in the form of seeds often, but dont forget about the insects that the clover and annual weeds attract! A pheasant or quail chick doesnt make it past a few weeks old without insects, and a lot of them. Sounds like you have plenty of food and some winter cover, as well.
I love talking to the good ol boys that used to pound quail back in the day. I think its no coincidence that he mentioned "young timber". I think the maturation of our timbers in southern iowa has really shrunk the amount of good quail habitat we have. Soooo many people argue that turkeys push out pheasants and quail but it is clear to me that our timbers and woody draws have just grown to the point that turkey will thrive in them and upland birds will not. A great way to combat that issue is edge feathering to soften up the edges and create transition zones from grass/ag to timber.
Im a little suprised that your ew isnt too thick for the birds??? Though, I suppose its not a whole lot different than a big patch of giant ragweed.
when it comes time to renew your old brome crp, think hard about upgrading to a cp25 or cp42. Those diverse, forb intense native seedings blow just about anything else out of the water as far as nesting/brood rearing goes. Also, look into adding some diversity to your shrub thickets - plum, dogwood, highbush cranberry and other species work well together and will provide flowers (insects) and berries at different times during the growing season. Keep up the great work!!
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Daver
PMA Member
Thank you, I am really glad to share my experiences with others and gain more knowledge about habitat improvement. Although I still love to hunt too, over the years I find myself thinking about and planning for habitat projects much more than the actual hunting. I agree with all of the points you made too.
As far as whether the EW was too thick...in previous years I planted via discing the ground and then broadcasting the seed. Try as I might to "take it easy" on the seeding rate, I always ran out of seed before I should have and it always ended up too thick. Even so, the birds were always in it, especially after the snow flew.
This year I had Dbltree's son, Jesse, drill in my milo and my EW. It was beautifully spaced and left plenty of "running around room" on the ground. Even with another drought year and a little later than preferred planting, the EW did well and as it began to disintegrate and fall over this fall, there was still plenty of space for the little birds to scurry around.
I only hunted them two times this year, but on one of those days we busted them out of the milo/EW and a couple of hours later I came by the same place just in time to see the covey fly right back into the same spot that we originally flushed them from a few hours earlier. To me, that's a show of just how attractive that cover/food combo is to them.
I also agree, EW does resemble a ragweed stand...speaking of which, I plan on, believe it or not, purposely growing a very small stand of ragweed this year. I had a dirt pile out behind the cabin leftover from a bulldozer operation last year and predominantly ragweed sprang out of it. I saw quail in and around that several times this summer/fall. So I captured some seed heads that I am going to use to make a ragweed plot this year. The plot will be quite small, but I know it will get used and I will locate it adjacent to other cover elements that the quail are already using.
Daver
PMA Member
I actually found online today a booklet that I had purchased a few years back in softcover. Probably 80% of what I think I know about quail came from this one book. So here is the link:
http://bringbackbobwhites.org/newsroom/fact-sheets/doc_view/62-guide-to-managing-lands-for-bobwhites
http://bringbackbobwhites.org/newsroom/fact-sheets/doc_view/62-guide-to-managing-lands-for-bobwhites
Daver
PMA Member
Today I happened to be reading a thread on another hunting related website and the original poster is a guy that has a farm in SE Iowa and he often documents his ongoing and extensive habitat work and hunting endeavors for many others to read about. Although I have known for some time now that it was possible to view aerial photos on line, including some sites that have historical images that go back decades...I had a new revelelation today regarding these aerial pics.
The gentleman that I am referring to posted an aerial view of his farm that is current and one that was from 1990. The two shots, separated by 24 years, are a stark contrast in how the land looks now v. then. And as it relates to quail...I would bet a dollar that the land pictured held more quail then v. now.
In 1990, it appears to be predominantly a classic pasture with woody treelines v. the now relatively thickly timbered areas. Soooo...what is my point?
When evaluating your land for quail suitability, be sure to consult previous aerial photos to get a feel for what the land looked like "back in the day" when quail were abundant v. how it most likely looks today, when quail are far less common. I suspect you will find clues on the old aerials that will help your efforts today in building and/or restoring more suitable quail habitat. Combine these clues with the knowledge available to us via the many quail habitat resources to better form your management plan for your place.
This may be obvious to some already, but that aspect just kind of hit me today. I will use that to further refine my plans going forward. This concludes the quail lesson of the day.
hoosierhunter
Active Member
It's an annual. I planted for the first time this year. It really needs to be drilled to achieve optimal growth. I also found out that make sure your farmer doesn't come close when spraying because he will wipe it out!
Daver
PMA Member
Although I have only had Egyptian Wheat on my place for 3 or 4 years now, I don't see how it could spread. It's an annual, you have to replant it each year. I have certainly not noticed any volunteer EW from one year to the next, and I have planted it in areas one year and then not the next, so if it was going reappear on its' own I think I would have seen it. Perhaps others that know more than I can their experiences too...
FYI, I was at my farm last weekend and the EW is all but totally fallen over, BUT it was still providing good cover and food for birds. Although it almost all down now, it is laying criss-cross all over itself about knee to waist high and it is still bare enough on the ground that the birds can run around pretty nice down there. More and more, I think EW is definitely one of the best things you can do for quail as it provides excellent fall/winter food AND cover for them.
I am going to go with 3 or 4 "blocks" of EW this year, this year I had one block and a couple of "lines" of it to screen food plots. Each block will be around 1/4 to 1/2 acre and all will be adjacent to other cover or food like switchgrass or milo.