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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gianni:
The in-town bowhunts aren't working out as well as you would think. CR and IC both tried it for a few years. IC finally ended up hiring sharpshooters. I would much rather see bowhunters take care of the problem, but the logistics of it are too difficult - not to mention that a lot of bowhunters are too high&mighty to hunt does in town. Guys like me who take the words "Any deer" printed on my tag seriously are in the minority.

I've seen bowhunters in yelling matches about who gets to hunt where and listened to them complain about everything from pheasant hunters to woodcutters to tractors to combines to the color of their own eyes. I've seen them take deer on other people's tags. I've seen them trespass. I've seen bowhunters commit every violation attributed on this board to "party hunters" and I don't have any reason to believe that bowhunting has any more inherent value than shotgunning, nor that bowhunters aren't just as willing to bend their ethical standards when a good deer is at stake.

I see nothing wrong with party hunting or driving deer, so long as it's done safely. If the law were changed so that those who had already shot their deer could drive, that would be a better alternative to saying they had to stay at home and wait out the rest of the week. Unfortunately, if you're in small groups (3 or 4 guys), the drivers usually end up with better than 1/2 the shooting.

Some of the farmers where I shotgun hunt were saying they had 30 bushel/acre beans this year. The top 1/2 of the plants were all chewed off, clearly deer damage. Not to mention that the top wire on every fence in the county is broken where the deer cross.

Quite frankly, I'm a little bit sick of this whole party-hunting argument. A simple case of a vocal minority trying to ruin someone else's fun so that they can feel superior.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just to let you know C.R. never had sharp shooters in. And I.C. had to fight like h--- to get bow hunting in. Because Peta would just soon see the deer die of starvaion or discease then to see bow hunters. My opinion on deer control make the NR shoot a doe before they can shoot a buck. You get 3500 and up, NR coming in and all they are shooting is bucks. Just my two cents worth.
Go early, stay late, hunt safeand shoot straght
 
I thought I was clear about the CR/IC thing, but if it was confusing, thanks for the clarification. A friend of mine got to tag along in IC and said it was one of the most amazing things he's ever seen. Pitch dark, silencers, etc.

The regs, however, are not at all clear. They state that a hunter may "help" another during any season in which he has a license. "Help" could mean anything from lending me a quad all the way up to shooting the deer.
 
I am a NR bowhunter and the best way for Iowa to control the deer herd is........When you purchase a license they should give you residents an additional antlerless only tag.......NR should have to buy them at a reduced cost not the extravagent $308 price range for a doe.......You will never get help from the NR with a doe tag priced that high.........From my experience in WI the DNR F*&#$ UP! T-ZONES don't cut it cause we have no deer anymore in most areas...they over harvested them......I have always said, "give us the tags and we will do are part." We didn't need 4 plus tags, one a year for every licence and a doe would have been harvested on that tag.......This is where IOWA could benefit....You have your either sex tag and a doe tag...You have all season to hunt your buck if you want and your obligated as an ethical sportsman to help out in controlling the deer herd but taking a doe at ANY TIME....Oh ya and there is your venison for the year.... My thoughts on controlling a deer herd...And by the way I am for Party Hunting as long as it is in hte legal fashion...

GOD BLESS AMERICA!
 
I'm glad to see some people standing up for shotgun hunters, I was beginning to think I was in the minority here. We hunt rather large peices of timber etc, with a small group of hunters. I believe party hunting is OK as long as you give the deer a fair chance to escape, and by no means are the deer sitting targets. I have never bow hunted but i really enjoy hearing the stories and seeing the pictures on this site. I can imagine how that would be a huge rush when it was just you and the deer. We practice good ethics and most importantly are safe which allows us to have a good time.
 
I think this board is one of the last few message boards on the internet that you can have a good debate about things without it turning into a child like flame war. Makes me proud to be a new member.

I would like to know some of your views on lesser known debates about deer hunting, such as high-fencing deer, using dogs to chase deer (not legel in Iowa, but it's used in other parts of the country), and the selling of antlers for profit, among other things.

I always like to hear other peoples opinions about anything related to deer hunting.
 
Reference assisting other deer hunters.

The ONLY deer season it is legal to assist other deer hunters is during the two shotgun deer seasons.

During either the bow season or the early/late muzzleloader seasons it is NOT legal to assist in any manner. In these seasons once you have shot and tagged your own deer you are done. Period.

In the 2001 Iowa Deer and Fall Turkey Hunting Regulations and License Instructions booklet it does state on page 4 under HELPING OTHER HUNTERS: "DEER-You may hunt and assist other deer hunters only in the season specified on your license." THAT IS IN ERROR and should be changed in the next booklet.

To reinforce my understanding of this situation I contacted my supervisor, who it just so happened, was on the phone to Lowell Joslin (Law Enforcement Bureau Chief). They confirmed the above.


FYI

TURKEY

A RESIDENT hunter having a valid spring turkey hunting license for any zone or season, may accompany, call for or otherwise assist another hunter who has a valid turkey hunting license for any zone and season. NONRESIDENTS may assist other hunters ONLY in the same zone and season indicated on their license.

FALL TURKEY

Resident hunters with a fall turkey hunting license may assist other fall turkey hunters in any zone throughout the combination gun/bow or archery season. The hunter doing the assisting may not carry a gun or bow or shoot a turkey unless he/she has an unfilled transportation tag valid for that season.

Doug Clayton

State Conservation Officer
 
I have party hunted for 16 years. I hunt with a group ranging from 10-16 each year and each year we are very successful taking trophy bucks or does, leaving smaller bucks for future hunts. In my opinion the key to is safety and ethics. The men in our group hunt upland game together or bow hunt together in these areas. We get to know the farmers in the area, we know the area and we know the deer. Safety is always are highest priority and we spend time before each season discussing what to shoot and where (some farmers have started to specify what to shoot on their land). We also use print-outs of arial photos to familiarize ourselves with the location of other hunters and our strategy. It is true that there are groups how only pick up a gun once a year and have no respect for the sport or the deer. However, in my dealings with other groups these are the minority. Party hunting is an effective way to control deer populations and it is a safe and ethical way to pursue deer.

Here's an idea we discussed this year - what if the DNR made all shotgun tags doe only for one year, no bucks taken during shotgun season. If you get a doe tag that year you automatically get a buck or any-sex tag the next year. If you don't you get a doe tag or a lottery for a buck tag. Just a thought.
 
maggs, i agree with alot of what 150 and rembrandt have said. i do not believe we need party hunting to control the deer population. u said other hunters u know would not hunt if left to their own devices?? what is that?? they can not hunt on their own or is it the hunting with friends they enjoy? either way that has nothing to do with party hunting. IA is one of the few states i know that has party hunting. i have hunted in numerous states and do not see a problem with the deer herd in the states where a hunter takes his own deer. i do not have to be a biologist to understand the deer population (by the way i did stay in a Holiday Inn express last night). all i am trying to say is i believe being able to shoot someone else's deer promotes unsafe and unethical practices. we can not and should not try to tell someone which legal way to hunt, but let's just take our own deer-is there a problem with that?????????
 
Blind Sow THANK you very much for that clarification.

That is exactly the way I always understood it. However I do not understand why the DNR does not print these things clearly on the DNR website.

Next can you clarify the details of when it is ok to Tresspass on land to trail a wounded animal. I had it explained to me that the critter must be dead and visible so you can go in a direct line to it. Many people here have said if they draw blood they can chase it anywhere they please. WHICH IS CORRECT??


I think we are touching on part of the problem. The literature on laws that is easily available to the general public is vauge(in this case wrong) and so with no clear direction, people go by what "grandpa" thinks the law should say. Of course some people have no regard for laws, but clear direction helps the rest of us.

IaCraig
 
This has turned into a great discussion! I was hoping we could get some opinions/ideas without it turning into a war. Some were correct in making a distinction between party hunting & deer drives. When I commented about some hunters not going if the rules were changed I meant (& should have said) they wouldn't hunt if they had to go by themselves and couldn't participate in a "group effort". Most of these hunters are once a year hunters or inexperienced deer hunters and if they had to go out by themselves to get a deer wouldn't have the first clue in how to go about it. Now if you changed the rules regarding shooting a deer for other members of the group I think most would continue to hunt but # of deer shot would drop. In my experience it's never easy to say who will get an opportunity; the driver or the blocker.
Re: keeping the deer herd in check I guess if the shotgun season isn't responsible for the majority of deer deaths then maybe someone can tell me what is. I know there are alot of deer killed on the roadways but how many more would there be if we changed the rules & the shotgun harvest was cut in half?(hypothetical) I'm not advocating one side or the other in this discussion, just looking for ideas and potential answers. What better place to look then Iowa hunters and landowners!
I like the idea about a doe tag before a buck option and I think the extra doe tags offered this year were too expensive. But we also have to realise that rules governing the size of the herd can't be broadly apllied as the herd varies in different parts of the various counties, much less different parts of the State. Maggs
 
Party hunting in big groups is worthless. It is too dangerous and there is too much of an advantage over the deer. I think it should be outlawed for groups over 5 people.
 
Glad you have an opinion there Brandon but party hunting isn't going anywhere in the near future. And you are trying to tell us that you should only be allowed to hunt with 5 people. Well if there is no party hunting then you shouldn't be able to hunt with anyone. That sounds like alot of fun!
 
I have to agree that if party hunting were outlawed, there are people who wouldn't stay at home. One good example: My daughter.

If you want to take your kid deer hunting with you, regardless of age, the DNR mandates that they have a valid licence and tag for the season. That means that whether or not kids are old enough to shoot, just to sit on stand with dad for a day, they need a tag. To go on a walk through the woods with me, she needs a tag. Technically, if I shoot one with the bow and go home to get her to help track it & drag it out, she probably needs a tag.

Add to that the lack of patience that goes along with being 15 years old. Party hunting with family and close friends is an excellent way to introduce kids to the sport. I personally didn't have the patience to stand-hunt until I was probably 20 year old. Maybe I'm the exception & not the rule, but judging from my 7 year-old, I'm guessing she'll settle down enough by the time she's 50.

Thanks to Blind Sow for clarifying that "help" during bow season simply means to sit on the couch and watch football. I can handle that no problem. Good luck to all the ML hunters & Merry Christmas.
 
This is in response to Gianni's post.

Every fall conservation officers are asked is someone can come along on the deer hunt and watch if they don't have a deer license. I know my response is the same as other conservation officers here in southwest Iowa.

As long as the unlicensed individual (whether a child or an adult) does not actively participate in the hunt I have no problem with them being in the field.

That means the unlicensed person is basically in a licensed person's "hip pocket". If the hunt involves say pheasant or deer the unlicensed person is not 10-15 yards away or further, walking through the field or timber. This can be construed as pushing deer or flushing pheasants and to do that a license is required. (There is no set distance by law--it's common sense and officer discretion.)

If someone is tree stand hunting for deer and an unlicensed person is in the same stand or nearby just observing or photographing/videoing the day, and is not rattling antlers using deer calls (i.e. participating in the hunt), I can't think of a conservation officer that would have a problem with that.

The same goes for helping someone drag a deer out of the timber. I know farmers have helped drag out deer for hunters on their property, and hunters have gone home and gotten their wife or children (boys and girls) to come out and help drap and blood trail. Again, it's a common sense thing.

More than likely the conservation officer has observed the group for awhile (either through binoculars or a spotting scope) and knows what is going on.

I hope this clears up some misunderstandings on what constitutes "helping".

Doug
 
IaCraig

In Iowa trespassing does not prohibit the unarmed pursuit of game or furbearing animals lawfully injured or killed which come to rest on or escape to the property of another.

I know there are individuals and groups who use the "pursuit" aspect of the trespass law to go onto property to actually chase animals, not to blood trail the animal or retrieve the pheasant. Anyone who is entering someone else's propery they do not have permission to be on should try and use the most direct route to find the animal/bird. No doubt some people use that excuse to gain access to some property, go on it unarmed (as required by law) and then proceed to push the deer off the land to other members of their party. If that can be proved, tresapassing charges will be filed if the landowner wishes to press them.

I hope this answers your question.

Doug
 
hey tinks i would not be so sure about that, tink i'll make a few phone calls to legislature
and gianni, i did not need to "party hunt" to be introduced to the outdoors when i was a kid in fact i'm glad my dad taught me about nature and love of the sport and respect for the animal.
 
do not confuse party hunting with hunting with other people - i just want everyone to shoot their own deer!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Bub,
Glad to hear you shoot you own deer, so do I. I bow hunt and shotgun hunt, and enjoy doing both. If you honestly think Iowa is going to outlaw party hunting then I feel sorry for ya. I know you enjoy hunting and shooting your own deer. Can you honestly sit here and tell me that in all of your years of hunting you have never shot more than one deer. If so, I feel for ya. My group has a blast hunting together. One year I may shoot one deer and the next I may shoot five as I did this year. Hunting is about being outdoors and having fun with your friends and family, some years the deer just come your way and some years they don't. Either way if I shoot a deer or not I still have fun and that is what hunting is all about to me, having fun! Sorry, but people will always have different views and opinions and thank god we all have that right and live in the great land we all call the USA!!!!!
 
I quit shotgun hunting but have nothing against it.There are several problems with getting rid of party hunting.I might be wrong but this is how i see it.First they would have to extend the shotgun season.A lot of people work during the week so this limits the time they can shotgun hunt to either one weekend or two depending which season they go on.The majority of hunters wouldnt be able to fill thier own tags in that amount of time without help.And so they probably wouldnt go to start with.Second if you had to quit hunting after you filled your tag the last couple guys in the party with tags would be screwed because the majority of the party would already be at home and its a lot harder to kill deer with 2 guys then say 6 guys.There is a lot of guys in both gun and bow hunting that will break the law to kill a deer.It sounds like shotgunners do it more than bowhunters but Im not so sure.Im a moderator in Realtree and recently asked bowhunters if they would take a shot at a deer if it was past legal shooting hours but there was still light enough to shoot.These people answered honestly and said they hunt till its to dark to shoot.So while its technically illeagle bowhunters do it while gun hunters would be arrested for it.More tags for the hunters might be an answer but if they cant fill the ones they got more tags aint gonna help any.I think party hunting is here to stay for better or worse or else theyre gonna have to change the majority of the regulations just to keep enough hunters in the field to do any good.........Horst
 
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