Giant Deer of Iowa are rapidly becoming a past memory
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fatboy
Well-Known Member
I'm with you on being a huge 2A supporter, but the Iowa Gun Owners group was the one that lobbied hard for the caliber change several years ago. I thanked them for what they do for the Iowa citizens, but we had a big disagreement that they needed to stay in their lane and out of the hunting laws for Iowa. Big money was being poured in from the firearms industry to help them. We need to keep an eye on them as much as we do the crossbow industry.
Daver
PMA Member
The key word to watch out for = "opportunity". "Stay in your lane" is absolutely correct.
sep0667
Land of the Whitetail
Those are gun guys, not deer guys.
I've learned there are hunters that are just about kill kill kill and are more about shooting their weapon than the deer. Then there are hunters that are more about the deer/wildlife and have respect for conservation and the game they pursue. It can be very tough to have a conversation with the gun guys.
The one commonality in every analysis of the issues with any person or group…. Almost all of them come back to “on this issue, it really would only move the needle 1-2%”. & I’m not saying they are wrong on some issues or at face value. Give u a big handful of wide ranging examples….
Folks on here remember late shed buck buck season? The first time we had it all over. It ruined things fast in countless areas. U would go to HUSH lockers & see piles of shed bucks- small to big pedicles. Tons of button bucks. & clearly saw fruits of their goal which was to destroy the population. The shed buck debate though “oh come on! It’s only 800 shed bucks statewide” or something like that. But it’s on top of any other season. Then “oh, ya, 700 more button bucks”. “Oh ya, probably 5,000 more does got shot than we really should have in these regions”. All got minimized & dismissed by those that didn’t care or couldn’t change a thing. What Happened? Destroyed whole regions- FAST! Got season reversed.
The current state we in where things got hurt- took too long & too many other issues so couldn’t pin it on something so defined like that shed buck season.
Ehd was same way 5 to 10 years ago. “There were only 500 cases statewide. Deer bounce right back”. Dismissed. Until folks figured out it was way way way worse than what was reported. Even today with 3,500 reports- we now have data/analysis & proof it’s no less than 10x that amount in reality.
Things like “there’s only xyz button bucks shot- no big deal”. If that could get tightened up- it would make a huge difference (very hard to regulate - that’s more on education).
Only THIS _____ many extra bucks get taken due to: whatever_____ …. “Cell cameras” Or since we added straight walls. Or current shed bucks season. Any issue u can think of …. It’s ALWAYS minimized (maybe rightfully so) by some group “it’s only a small %”. Why we truly are hurting from death by a thousand cuts! Then…..here’s where we spiral out of control!!!!!….. “ya, it’s these 10 wide ranging issues that really hurt things” or whatever … then u add in things that are huge that you cannot measure or easily account for: “oh, there’s massive predation of fawns & deer in general - huge predator populations”. “Oh ya, we lost 5-10% of the timber & CRP in last 5 years”. “Oops, ehd hit & took out >35,000 deer statewide in reality”
So- we either need a big handful of these cuts reduced or we need to lay off greatly to make up for the big things behind the scenes that have hammered whole regions of the state. & I’d say the whole state is hurt badly to some degree- whole place.
BOTTOM LINE: very hard to solve this if we can’t address a portion of the thousand cuts or the big underlying issues that which are harder to regulate or even pinpoint. It’s absolutely fixable stuff but folks have to understand the dynamics before it’s fixed.
Folks on here remember late shed buck buck season? The first time we had it all over. It ruined things fast in countless areas. U would go to HUSH lockers & see piles of shed bucks- small to big pedicles. Tons of button bucks. & clearly saw fruits of their goal which was to destroy the population. The shed buck debate though “oh come on! It’s only 800 shed bucks statewide” or something like that. But it’s on top of any other season. Then “oh, ya, 700 more button bucks”. “Oh ya, probably 5,000 more does got shot than we really should have in these regions”. All got minimized & dismissed by those that didn’t care or couldn’t change a thing. What Happened? Destroyed whole regions- FAST! Got season reversed.
The current state we in where things got hurt- took too long & too many other issues so couldn’t pin it on something so defined like that shed buck season.
Ehd was same way 5 to 10 years ago. “There were only 500 cases statewide. Deer bounce right back”. Dismissed. Until folks figured out it was way way way worse than what was reported. Even today with 3,500 reports- we now have data/analysis & proof it’s no less than 10x that amount in reality.
Things like “there’s only xyz button bucks shot- no big deal”. If that could get tightened up- it would make a huge difference (very hard to regulate - that’s more on education).
Only THIS _____ many extra bucks get taken due to: whatever_____ …. “Cell cameras” Or since we added straight walls. Or current shed bucks season. Any issue u can think of …. It’s ALWAYS minimized (maybe rightfully so) by some group “it’s only a small %”. Why we truly are hurting from death by a thousand cuts! Then…..here’s where we spiral out of control!!!!!….. “ya, it’s these 10 wide ranging issues that really hurt things” or whatever … then u add in things that are huge that you cannot measure or easily account for: “oh, there’s massive predation of fawns & deer in general - huge predator populations”. “Oh ya, we lost 5-10% of the timber & CRP in last 5 years”. “Oops, ehd hit & took out >35,000 deer statewide in reality”
So- we either need a big handful of these cuts reduced or we need to lay off greatly to make up for the big things behind the scenes that have hammered whole regions of the state. & I’d say the whole state is hurt badly to some degree- whole place.
BOTTOM LINE: very hard to solve this if we can’t address a portion of the thousand cuts or the big underlying issues that which are harder to regulate or even pinpoint. It’s absolutely fixable stuff but folks have to understand the dynamics before it’s fixed.
Thinkin Rut
PMA Member
If we could ever get beyond the EHD hump, most of the population issue would, to some degree, resolve itself. It would also help with the mature buck situation. A temporary law with an end date aimed at population recovery might be an easier sell than a permanent change. A two year one buck state and a dialed back doe harvest/late doe season would go a long way.
booneriverbucks
PMA Member
Yep, there’s got to be something that could be done that does not lead to the horrible regulations and increased non resident access that often go along with being a one buck state. Since we cannot predict the future it is impossible to say we will be successful keeping the bad stuff out. NO STATE has been successful yet. It’s probably best not to go out of our way to create the window of opportunity for that. It is not worth ruining multiple traditions and seasons here for what could be a temporary problem..especially with an endless list of technology and other things that could be addressed first.
Crossbows in archery season for the masses will 100% be a determent to giant deer and the whole herd in Iowa. This will put a lot of non-archery hunters in the woods resulting in more deer getting shot. Every 3.5 year old 140" will be going down in my area. They will say "I now have 2 tags so this one will work". Having and retaining mature bucks on your farm really comes down to the neighborhood and your neighbors. I am living proof of this. I have 2 farms. One in central Iowa and the other in southern Iowa. Try to manage both the same with completely different results for age structure and trophy potential. The central IA farm has great genetics but every 3/4 year old 130"-150" buck gets shot by the neighbors if given the chance. All the talking and communication between parties is pointless as when it comes down to it they all get shot. No discipline for most guys to pass on the young bucks with good antlers. The southern IA farm is completely different as we have no problem getting them to older ages. The neighbors are on the same page trying to manage for age. If the southern IA neighbors had the same mindset as the central IA guys we would be up against it there too. Thankful that is not the case. Technology doesn't kill the deer. Hunters do. It absolutely helps to know what is there but it ends up in the lap of the person with the weapon. This will never change. Hurts to says this but this is the reality of most properties. Neighbors & neighborhoods are the key. Have good ones and things are great. The other way and things suck. If you want to see & grow giant bucks you had better be in a neighborhood that will support that. If not you are literally wasting your time trying. I am living this scenario as we speak. Good luck to anyone that still has a tag in their pocket. This weekend should be really good with the snow and weather coming in. Be safe & have fun.
Skip,
Smart guy, same argument. Spin your wheels trying to chase this little change or that. EVERY one of your topics above went back to the same common ground, too many deer died from this or that and decreased the population. So either DNR realizes and cuts antlerless tags to increase population or we fight amongst ourselves about taking away cell cams, straight walls, thermals, whatever you want to chase but good money towards a bad cause. I think DNR has limited interest in making Iowa a quality state again or anywhere near where it used to be, hopefully based on what you said I am wrong but based on herd number and tag availability they don’t show any other direction. DNR, either by choice or stupidity, have shown no response to EHD and over harvesting. There are some great comments above about a happy medium of population and I agree but the pendulum has swung. DNR is also working off questionable population estimate surveys and you can look at the survey details on miles traveled and sightings on spotlight survey and scratch your head. We know that making this or that change comes with resistance(right or wrong) from some group of hunters. chase increasing population which doesn’t divide any hunting group and pit us all against FB and farmers rather than a few of us against other hunters AND FB AND FARMERS. ISC response above was the most realistic response I’ve heard in that we are where we are, hopefully the passionate one’s self regulate some and spend our time and money toward fighting more bad regs like more NR tags and crossbows or full out rifles. This is the new Iowa big buck hunting with no increase in population so get used to it.
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Agree with most of this for sure!!!
This happens 2 ways in REALITY - 1 or the other or both….
1) what we will attempt first - population up. Reduced quotas. YES: the dnr knows this. They are adjusting things. The only place u could “fault” the dnr is simply that they are handcuffed by legislator now. They can adjust quotas but they can’t change any laws or even have a position of a law. Farm Bureau on the other hand CAN have a position on a law. It’s backwards. Here’s the good news: ISC, IBA, DNR & hunters are united against insanity & we have been winning against Goliath (farm bureau) & as resource gets degraded, now we have the facts on our side with this movement - we will often win. We’ve beat them every time in last 3-4 years.
2) One BIG BEAUTIFUL BILL to address multiple issues that are hurting us badly & likely always will. One big bill or file all these issues concurrently…. A) 2 bucks per person max B) cell cams to have 24 hour delay to mimic fly over laws. C) no drones for scouting period. Licensed drones with strong oversight for recovery only (so- no scouting will save deer & so will recovering dead deer vs continuing out) D) shed buck season gone. E) ability for dnr to adjust quotas quickly & substantially in areas with certain criteria (ehd or counties with under 5 or 10 deer per square mile). F) maybe some changes on tag sharing. G) dnr back to their old status where they can change regs as needed (vs only by legislator). H) program for farmers to be put on list making their land walk-in if they have issues. A few other things.
There’s 0 doubt in my mind…. This state could be completely fixed in 2-3 years. Even with ehd - we can have so many things in place to recover fast or not have other issues that double up on damage. This state is honestly so easy to fix!!! The issues are easy, it’s common sense, it’s elementary for legislation & beyond simple. The only thing standing in the way is people saying “even though 50 gazillion new things have been added in last 20 years - you can’t take ANY of those things back!!!” I will say, 10-15 years ago when DNR had the power - they had the balls to change things to be tighter - didn’t give a crap about the complaints & they did the right thing…. Example: NR’s getting archery antlerless bow tags & abuses happened. Changed it with snap of the finger. & they needed to. Western states still have this power & why them having brains & balls keeps so many of them great- because they put the resource first & Ignore the dudes that have tantrums …. Tantrums end super fast & resource stays great so folks actually end up being happy. So simple of an issue in reality.
tall@wide
PMA Member
Skip, is there 1 or 2 main things in the works this year to change? I think a max of 2 buck tags is a good start, even if 1 of those is the landowner tag. I also think resident party hunting should end. Hunters should shoot only the tag they possess. I also think poaching and trespassing fines and penalties should increase dramatically. Shed buck late season hunting is a no brainer.
booneriverbucks
PMA Member
General question.. and I do personally think there absolutely needs to be some limits/changes to party hunting.. What is the guy who only bow hunts being asked to give up for the “good of the herd”? Are bowhunters completely blameless for our current situation?? I ask this as a guy who spent an embarrassing amount of time bow hunting since October 1st (would rather not admit how much I’ve been out 
) and not as a gun hunter. I think there needs to be limits on a few things but have noticed bow hunters are fairly slow to push for limits on technology/season length etc. on what they currently have. Totally agree no one needs to be filling grannies tag and that is currently illegal already... unless grannie is actually out hunting and blazing away with her AR .450 while proudly wearing her blaze orange MAGA hat and vest. In that case, good for grannie.
Many current party hunters would also argue that the whole your deer your tag arguement is irrevant while hunting as a group... Everyone in the group takes pride in the deer they got regardless of who actually shot it. Not endorsing any of this but it is as big of an Iowa hunting tradtion as any. Many guys that do deer drives and enjoy party hunting regs think bowhunters have it “easy” due to our extremely long season length and the natural deer movement that happens during the rut. Any honest bowhunter would admit we have a “few” more advantages than we did in the past.
My question is what do bowhunters really want to give up?? Do we want crossbows for all? Do we want November gun seasons? Baiting? Do we want all centerfire rifles legal?? More non-resident access???
Hunters in other states have had to compromise on all of these issues. Even in the “utopia” one buck states. In Iowa, bowhunters have won! In my opinion that has been awesome! I’d hate to lose what we currently have for the alternative.. What are bowhunters willing to sacrifice??.. Without going to crossbows for all, november gun seasons and more non residents…? There are few sacrifices ever brought up.
) and not as a gun hunter. I think there needs to be limits on a few things but have noticed bow hunters are fairly slow to push for limits on technology/season length etc. on what they currently have. Totally agree no one needs to be filling grannies tag and that is currently illegal already... unless grannie is actually out hunting and blazing away with her AR .450 while proudly wearing her blaze orange MAGA hat and vest. In that case, good for grannie.Many current party hunters would also argue that the whole your deer your tag arguement is irrevant while hunting as a group... Everyone in the group takes pride in the deer they got regardless of who actually shot it. Not endorsing any of this but it is as big of an Iowa hunting tradtion as any. Many guys that do deer drives and enjoy party hunting regs think bowhunters have it “easy” due to our extremely long season length and the natural deer movement that happens during the rut. Any honest bowhunter would admit we have a “few” more advantages than we did in the past.
My question is what do bowhunters really want to give up?? Do we want crossbows for all? Do we want November gun seasons? Baiting? Do we want all centerfire rifles legal?? More non-resident access???
Hunters in other states have had to compromise on all of these issues. Even in the “utopia” one buck states. In Iowa, bowhunters have won! In my opinion that has been awesome! I’d hate to lose what we currently have for the alternative.. What are bowhunters willing to sacrifice??.. Without going to crossbows for all, november gun seasons and more non residents…? There are few sacrifices ever brought up.
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As most know- there’s political process that’s takes some time & it may take a couple legislative sessions or attempts before it gets through. There’s times (depending who is in office & if there’s major reforms going on that are taking all the oxygen up). 1-2 legislative sessions is generally pretty fast. Some take 3-4. Let’s say we as hunters unite & say “folks, we have a mess on our hands, we absolutely need this _____ now!!” & folks unite…. We can get things done in one session most likely.
Back to the main point. Here’s a realistic start & timeline….
1) one of the most important things is DNR having more power over regulations & being able to have an opinion on laws. This was taken away during Brandstad (at farm bureaus request) & I believe it was done by executive order. If so- we need next governor to reverse that by EO. If it’s done legislatively- we need to get this bill done. Either way- it’s perhaps one of the most important issues we will ever face…. Do the legislators more-so control deer regs or do the hunters & dnr? That’s it. If it’s legislators- the fight will always be the hunters vs farm bureau. If it’s DNR who oversees or has most influence: common sense & sound management based on biology - which will mesh far closer with hunters- will be how regs are managed. This is probably #1 & also the most overlooked issue we could take on that really would impact every other issue we could debate.
2) we urgently need celeb tags gone. The last year, on the “best farms” in iowa…. We reached high 7 to low 8 figures of viewers across country promoting the state's of Iowas big bucks. Again- it’s a silent problem that folks overlook that puts resident pressure & NR pressure on our resource. I see many of the follow up essays done (so my friends- who laugh at how stupid this program is - show how between YT, FB, TikTok, tv, etc- “reached 1,452,000 viewers” for example.). It doesn’t remove all publicity but it removes MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of targeted marketing views across country. While they skip the line because they are celebs & get views. Has to go. Those tags to go to charity/auction tag pool instead - funds non profits, conservation & funds the dnr. Removes millions in marketing.
3) in one legislative season clean up all the issues vast majority want or that are just common sense: 2 bucks max per person. No drones for wildlife use what so ever except (if CO’s approve it) recovery of dead deer by licensed pilot that logs flights, etc. No bait on farms during hunting season period on any land being hunted. Clear verbiage on electronic devices- whatever it is, hard to enforce or not - the law needs to be black & white & no gray areas.
4) one that is generally on the “easy category” of passage is harsher fines & punishment for poaching. I could write a whole page on this. This stuff is far wider spread & done than anyone can imagine & needs more teeth & enforcement dollars. Fines could literally pay for more enforcement or stings too.
5) the quotas are being reduced - so we pretty good there. Maybe needs more aggressive. Shed buck season gone, totally agree.
If we get the right governor next Nov- be a strong influence on when we go for things & what gets done. But even the worst scenario - we can still get a lot of this common sense stuff done.
Great thoughts!
Crossbows, NR tags, baiting, etc- not gonna happen. There’s no support for it… I’m not gonna say the chances are 0 BUT…. If we stay strong & grow at current pace …. It stands no chance. I will mention a side note…. The NR groups or outfitter tags, etc etc- their #1 point they bring up!!! “Well, R LO’s can get 3 buck tags!!!!! We should be able to get 1!!!!!” That 3 buck tag & tag sharing is the ONLY weakness we have in our argument & they will try to use that point FOREVER - that’s powerful political ammunition.
As archers…. Our group has really changed about the least in 20 years. Maybe our effective range has increased 10-20 yards. About it though. Access has gotten way worse. We have advanced with cell cams & maybe the increased use of box blinds & food plots (to a lessor degree than any gun group though). Where else u feel like we gone too far in archery? If there’s a way to dial things back- I absolutely think we should address it. Very fair game!! Very open minded… what could u see as a few examples of what archers give up?
What can archers give up?
Just an idea- Not advocating either way
You could make the 3 tags some qualify for and make it two max. Then stipulate only one can be during the first archery split. (If you want to shoot one with a bow during late season instead of a gun doesn't make a lot of seance to limit that). So you could shoot one deer with a bow, 1 deer with a gun, OR 2 with a bow, but only one can be before gun seasons.
Then very minor stuff like the auto ranging electronic sights. That shit should go away.
Just an idea- Not advocating either way
You could make the 3 tags some qualify for and make it two max. Then stipulate only one can be during the first archery split. (If you want to shoot one with a bow during late season instead of a gun doesn't make a lot of seance to limit that). So you could shoot one deer with a bow, 1 deer with a gun, OR 2 with a bow, but only one can be before gun seasons.
Then very minor stuff like the auto ranging electronic sights. That shit should go away.
booneriverbucks
PMA Member
I think a well worded two buck per hunter limit is a great place to start.. baby steps.. I’ll use myself as an example..
I bowhunt, am eligible for a LOT tag, and PARTY hunt during first shotgun season. I’ve been well aware for 20+ years that party hunting during first shotgun seasons is not my best chance at a trophy deer. Will freely admit I have a blast doing it tho and have absolutely no stomach for telling the people that were generous enough to introduce me to deer hunting in this state that I know better than them and that their way of hunting is wrong. (They all know they could kill bigger bucks more consistently other ways, they just don’t wan’t to ruin traditions either and leave less fortunate friends/family holding the bag). It is not all about the deer! I’m extremely lucky I have known people that cared more about people/access than inches my entire life. Also fortunate they have killed some giants that made all that easier.. It’s extemly easy to give up XYZ for others when you have met all of your personal goals.
As far as what I think bowhunters should give up.. I’m %100 ok with all of our current regs…. as long as we are not asking gun hunters to give up more. There are more than likely 10’s of thousands of gun hunters today that have not checked their trail cams from their phones.. Many never will.. Many don’t have any cams whether cell or SD.
Many gun hunters in the past were also generous with access to bowhunters.. Now the same bowhunters are competing for neighboring properties and trying to limit the access of gun hunters that were generous enough to introduce them to the sport. Gun hunters used to be able to enjoy entire blocks of timber and now a random 40-80 to whatever acre piece is off limits because a bowhunter thought paying whatever grand for sole permission was his silver bullet to a 6+year old monarch.. instead of being happy with a place to go the modern bowhunter just blames the neighbors for his lack of success and pushes to limit opportunities for others.. Why!? Why don’t we have it good enough already? As bowhunters can we really say another state has it better?? Do we really want November gun seasons? Or September muzzleloader?? We have it great!! WE are soley to blame for our lack of success in this state. It’s very common to run out of our own excuses for our lack of success and decide to blame others instead. That is the easy way out. I thought bow hunting was about doing things the hard way? Don’t we take pride in that? No bowhunter wants to give up his current season length or technology avaible in order to make a gun hunters season better.. even worse we are pushing for more tech because losing is unacceptable to us! We will just buy our way out of our problems!!
I swear the modern day bowhunter is straight from the Davos- World Economic Forum line of thinking.. This would all be so much better if it weren’t for all the people! We don’t need
Hunters competing with us anymore. Just more technology! Let’s just limit the people and embrace the tech and all of our problems will be solved!- Klaus Shwab is cheering it all on.
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booneriverbucks
PMA Member
Personally- I wouldn’t ask for anything.. I love our bow season and want it to stay great! Just think it is rediculous to ask for more and not expect any repercussions
booneriverbucks
PMA Member
Two buck limit is great!! Instead of “actively” trying to take something away from somebody we just make the extra tag irrelevant.. politically this is much easier!! Nobody is “taking away” anything and many will be more selective just by the threat. All landowners get to keep their current “privileges”. Old farmer who only gun hunts with two any sex tags is still happy. No large rec ground owner is unhappy becuase he can still shoot two bucks at least. We all know nobody will successfully cry for their need for 3 bucks! Cuz we all know that is BS. Everybody wins!! We have low support for crossbows, more non-res access, baiting, november gun seasons, all rifles etc. becuase we haven’t been too greedy and f’d it all up yet!! Let’s be happy and keep it that way!!
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That’s funny!!
HUNTER GROUPS HIT HARDEST THE LAST 10 YEARS:
1) gun groups. Calling a spade a spade. The pushes & access have been widely been lost the last 10-20 years. On the other side: they did get… weapons that shoot WAY further & easier to shoot. Warm sealed box blinds & a few other things.
2) kids & everyday dude. Access hit really hard. Way way way less deer on the average parcels. Far less chance to catch up with a mature buck. They really have not got any major upside the last 10 years. Maybe you would say they got handed tons of extra tags, seasons & weapons but that applies to everyone.
3) Guys managing for older bucks. The group no one ever wants to give any sympathy for. The group that actually gets attacked & constantly has to defend themselves or their land, etc. It’s kinda like the class warfare in our country - folks hating the successful people. While not understanding how hard they worked or what they provide back to society. Do guys who manage for a balanced, quality deer herd get a voice at the table? If we use Liberal class warfare logic- “heck no! Screw those guys”. But- I contend there’s countless thousands of them. & huge multiple of that # that benefit from their efforts as 99% of them don’t have the deer live there all the time & could be 10 acres to 2,000 acres. This is a HUGE group of people & most those folks I know- they are hurting BAD!!!! Some of em- all their work & lots of time & $ invested in this and “it’s not good situation”. Not saying these guys should rule the discussion. I’d go as far as to say they should have a big seat at the table. & yes, they should have more input than FARM BUREAU or whatever. Clearly I fit in this camp but this is 0 about me. Dudes I know or countless folks across state working with a tiny farm to a giant farm - the hard core serious guy that wants a great herd, habitat & environment …. That group is usually attacked & often left out of the discussion & personally i believe that’s WRONG & actually hurts everyone if they get clobbered. 95 out of 100 of these guys are extremely concerned with current Situation. I think many know it will recover or get better but holy cow- lot of truly concerned people that genuinely care about resource are seeing things really struggle.
booneriverbucks
PMA Member
That was actually meant to be a jokeThat’s funny!!
HUNTER GROUPS HIT HARDEST THE LAST 10 YEARS:
1) gun groups. Calling a spade a spade. The pushes & access have been widely been lost the last 10-20 years. On the other side: they did get… weapons that shoot WAY further & easier to shoot. Warm sealed box blinds & a few other things.
2) kids & everyday dude. Access hit really hard. Way way way less deer on the average parcels. Far less chance to catch up with a mature buck. They really have not got any major upside the last 10 years. Maybe you would say they got handed tons of extra tags, seasons & weapons but that applies to everyone.
3) Guys managing for older bucks. The group no one ever wants to give any sympathy for. The group that actually gets attacked & constantly has to defend themselves or their land, etc. It’s kinda like the class warfare in our country - folks hating the successful people. While not understanding how hard they worked or what they provide back to society. Do guys who manage for a balanced, quality deer herd get a voice at the table? If we use Liberal class warfare logic- “heck no! Screw those guys”. But- I contend there’s countless thousands of them. & huge multiple of that # that benefit from their efforts as 99% of them don’t have the deer live there all the time & could be 10 acres to 2,000 acres. This is a HUGE group of people & most those folks I know- they are hurting BAD!!!! Some of em- all their work & lots of time & $ invested in this and “it’s not good situation”. Not saying these guys should rule the discussion. I’d go as far as to say they should have a big seat at the table. & yes, they should have more input than FARM BUREAU or whatever. Clearly I fit in this camp but this is 0 about me. Dudes I know or countless folks across state working with a tiny farm to a giant farm - the hard core serious guy that wants a great herd, habitat & environment …. That group is usually attacked & often left out of the discussion & personally i believe that’s WRONG & actually hurts everyone if they get clobbered. 95 out of 100 of these guys are extremely concerned with current Situation. I think many know it will recover or get better but holy cow- lot of truly concerned people that genuinely care about resource are seeing things really struggle.
! Glad you mighta noticed that!Totally agree with most of the above.. only arguement is there are many “managing for age” that hardly ever actually kill anything and just like to blame everyone else for their lack of success. We all know them!! Many fail to realize how hard it is to do consistently! Most of us see or get pictures of ones we’d love to get but few actually pull it off consistently.
My issue with many of the “trophy hunters”.. hate saying that cuz I am one (we’ll ignore whether I’m successful or not) is that MANY totally fail to realize how extremely GOOD they had it in the past. Many were the only guys that had a clue about deer in their area 20+ years ago. Very few areas were seriously bow hunted by guys that had any idea what they were actually doing. Look at all the BS products people fell for back then! All the “dumb” neighbors finally moved away from whacking the first year and half year old that walked by and now hold out for “older bucks”.. yes they might only be 2-3 but they are “bigger than the old days”. Lots of guys were without a doubt ahead of the game back then and I have no doubt that they’ve seen a decrease in top end quality due to their neighbors new success. There was a time when they were probably the only ones that had a chance in the whole neighborhood other than someone getting lucky. The game has changed. It is without a doubt harder. When we were given our extremely long bow season we had little of the tech and very few had the knowledge we have today.. We need to be honest with ourselves tho and admit it’s still pretty good. Very few would trade for November gun seasons, crossbows and many other regs other states have for what we have now. Those regs did not come out of a vacuum. All were created as a compromise from all hunters in their respective states. We could have it worse!!
On another note.. The great news for lots of bowhunters in the state is the giant amount of snow many of us just got will no doubt slow down many during the gun seasons. Should be a good year next year!
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