Wow lots of great insight on ml selection but here's an important note on steel. Very little stainless is domestic most of what I handle is Asian but there is a fair bit of Canadian stainless out there if its 416 ss it's 416 ss there is no us or non us standard and it's not the higher the number the better it is. The number refers to the chemistry and mechanical properties of the material. Not its quality for instance 304 ss is the shiny bright stuff you might see in food equip. 316 has similar properties to 304 but is more corrosion resistant so it's often used in Chemical tanks and such. 400 series is really not that great of stuff the most common use is for automotive exhaust. The real issue here is if a manufacturer puts made in the USA on a product it by no means indicates that the material came from the us. I would venture a educated guess that if tc and bergara both made you a stainless barrel the bar stock came from one of three places none of which are domestic.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
going to get a new muzzleloader
- Thread starter carvingfarmer
- Start date
-
- Tags
- None
Midwestprowler
New Member
Quote The number refers to the chemistry and mechanical properties of the material. Not its quality.
I will explain What I mean by standards are USA steel imported or not that will be for the use in the making of a gun barrel including muzzleloaders & stamped on the barrel Made in U.S.A. must be of a minimum type - series number. The series number tells you if it is corrosion resistant steel how soft or not a steel may be if it will give under pressure or not & much more. True the higher the number not the better the quality. All the numbers do is tell you what a steel would be good for also each country use a different scale so 416 ss from Spain is not the same as 416 ss from the USA even if they have the same name & some do. The Made in U.S.A. stamped guns would be using a steel imported by the USA or from the USA in origin (highly unlikely) but still it must meet by law the minimum as set by the USA chemical & mechanical properties or surpass them to make a gun barrel from it in the U.S.A. imported or not. Note this is a much better quality - strength steel used for this then other countries require you to use in such a application. Much better suited for this application also. It's just plain stronger but cost more to machine & produce due to being much stronger & it's the minimum you can use in the USA if you want the stamp Made in U.S.A. The standards are also set due to safety concerns thats why the USA made barrels must meet the minimum & due to different size guns requiring different types steel with different properties or thickness the list of minimums allowable is a mile long. Now Imported guns into the USA for sale can get around this not all of them but muzzleloaders can as no muzzleloader has SAMMI to govern them. Here is more info about SAMMI http://www.saami.org/ Muzzleloaders are not held to test & standards like other guns imported for sale in the USA. So if not Made in the USA lets say Made in Spain all they have to do is meet Spains minimum standards or aka minimum type of steel hardness thats ok to use in manufacture of a gun barrel in a given Cal. Softer steel is much less of a pain to machine that saves a ton of money in the manufacture of the gun barrel. Is it safe to shoot? I don't know? It might shoot now but will it go boom on me one day? I don't know? The machining soft steel much easier part with less costly equipment is why it cost less then a Made in U.S.A. stamped gun? I don't know? :grin: prolly So what your saying is if I want my gun stamped on it's barrel Made in U.S.A. it would have to be made of U.S.A. Grade steel in the USA? With the minimum Steel quality for it's Cal allowed & assembled here also? Yes if not it has to state how much foreign product or material it contains & what parts if it wishes to carry the stamp Made in U.S.A.. If not a above a certain % USA in origin it can't carry the stamp at all. Weber grill co just got in some big trouble over this last year cost em a heap & this new law has car lots domestic that is on toes.
Wanna have some fun go to ford dealer or chevy ask em about a car if it's all made in the USA if they say yes no crime in that ask for it in writing it's a different story. Look for the stamp or ask for location of it it will say assembled in U.S.A. then give country of origin the one that it contains the highest % of that is. I was shocked how many come from contain most parts from :drink2:Canada!
I will explain What I mean by standards are USA steel imported or not that will be for the use in the making of a gun barrel including muzzleloaders & stamped on the barrel Made in U.S.A. must be of a minimum type - series number. The series number tells you if it is corrosion resistant steel how soft or not a steel may be if it will give under pressure or not & much more. True the higher the number not the better the quality. All the numbers do is tell you what a steel would be good for also each country use a different scale so 416 ss from Spain is not the same as 416 ss from the USA even if they have the same name & some do. The Made in U.S.A. stamped guns would be using a steel imported by the USA or from the USA in origin (highly unlikely) but still it must meet by law the minimum as set by the USA chemical & mechanical properties or surpass them to make a gun barrel from it in the U.S.A. imported or not. Note this is a much better quality - strength steel used for this then other countries require you to use in such a application. Much better suited for this application also. It's just plain stronger but cost more to machine & produce due to being much stronger & it's the minimum you can use in the USA if you want the stamp Made in U.S.A. The standards are also set due to safety concerns thats why the USA made barrels must meet the minimum & due to different size guns requiring different types steel with different properties or thickness the list of minimums allowable is a mile long. Now Imported guns into the USA for sale can get around this not all of them but muzzleloaders can as no muzzleloader has SAMMI to govern them. Here is more info about SAMMI http://www.saami.org/ Muzzleloaders are not held to test & standards like other guns imported for sale in the USA. So if not Made in the USA lets say Made in Spain all they have to do is meet Spains minimum standards or aka minimum type of steel hardness thats ok to use in manufacture of a gun barrel in a given Cal. Softer steel is much less of a pain to machine that saves a ton of money in the manufacture of the gun barrel. Is it safe to shoot? I don't know? It might shoot now but will it go boom on me one day? I don't know? The machining soft steel much easier part with less costly equipment is why it cost less then a Made in U.S.A. stamped gun? I don't know? :grin: prolly So what your saying is if I want my gun stamped on it's barrel Made in U.S.A. it would have to be made of U.S.A. Grade steel in the USA? With the minimum Steel quality for it's Cal allowed & assembled here also? Yes if not it has to state how much foreign product or material it contains & what parts if it wishes to carry the stamp Made in U.S.A.. If not a above a certain % USA in origin it can't carry the stamp at all. Weber grill co just got in some big trouble over this last year cost em a heap & this new law has car lots domestic that is on toes.
Wanna have some fun go to ford dealer or chevy ask em about a car if it's all made in the USA if they say yes no crime in that ask for it in writing it's a different story. Look for the stamp or ask for location of it it will say assembled in U.S.A. then give country of origin the one that it contains the highest % of that is. I was shocked how many come from contain most parts from :drink2:Canada!
Midwestprowler
New Member
Also If I had to pick a place to get my steel it would not be the USA we do not have the best. It would be Germany But that would cost a Ton. I would have the USA turn it into a gun for me tho after all we are the largest producer of small arms in the world. Spain only has like 2 to 3 little family shops with 5 employees like most other places. We have millions...:thrwrck:
Actually the number that is the US grade only exists in North America it is the AISI number or the ASTM number so if you got a 316/316L stainless bar from say England it would not be an English 316 bar they have their own grading system. The US number is assigned here and when a manufacturer receives the material a material test report for that individual piece is provided. ASTM very strictly controls this stuff there is no reason to think imported steel is inferior. But I will agree the steel from Germany does seem like its somehow nicer.
Midwestprowler
New Member
Right if it is made here in the USA with imported steel from England then it would be the same steel used as from any other place. Due to it must meet USA minimum standards for use in making a gun barrel. Meaning it must be able to withstand so much psi & so on. My point is if it was made in lets say Spain as in Spain imported the steel under the grading system Spain would use & the law states in Spain they could use a softer steel to make a gun barrel. This would not be allowed in the USA if it was made here keep in mind. Spain could use the softer steel to make the gun. Import it for sale into the USA & pass it off as just as good. Totally legal when it comes to muzzleloaders like I said no body to govern this like is the case with a rifle or shotgun & so on in the USA. Why the USA would have to make a muzzleloader barrel out of steel that is able to withstand higher psi & so on you might ask? The law says they have to if made in USA no matter where the steel comes from imported or not it must be able to withstand a set psi. This includes muzzleloaders they are not tested to see if they can withstand it like other guns but are required to be made out of a steel that can withstand the higher psi. In other words the same steel used in most other guns required to be tested in the USA. So if it has Made in U.S.A on barrel it is a steel barrel that can take higher barrel pressure. If it was made in another place like Spain & the finished product imported for sale into the U.S.A it could not. Yes they can import them & sell them here a muzzleloader that is. Other guns rifle shotgun handgun that is not a muzzleloader to be imported into the USA for sale that have a body to govern them could not do this if made overseas with softer steel. they would not be legal for sale in the USA. This is why you hear about some muzzleloaders blowing up when no user error was made. Remember softer steel is much less costly to machine into a gun barrel the trade off is it can't withstand a diet of 30,000 + psi over a long time. It cost less to make it saves money so who cares is the way they look at it. I would care knowing most hunting loads produce that kinda pressure every shot. If an inline muzzleloading manufacturer refuses to tell you in writing that their rifles have been designed and tested to withstand a constant diet of 30,000 PSI peak pressure loads safely, their guns should not be sold, much less used.
Midwestprowler
New Member
Actually the number that is the US grade only exists in North America it is the AISI number or the ASTM number so if you got a 316/316L stainless bar from say England it would not be an English 316 bar they have their own grading system. The US number is assigned here and when a manufacturer receives the material a material test report for that individual piece is provided. ASTM very strictly controls this stuff there is no reason to think imported steel is inferior. But I will agree the steel from Germany does seem like its somehow nicer.
Muzzleloaders manufactured overseas imported into the USA for sale could say 316 but with no body to govern them like SAAMI no way to tell for sure. Unless you could get the manufacturer to give you in writing a document that states. The barrel is of 316 grade as graded by the North American system not the country of origins system.