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HF716/necked cartridge update

Nathan...... actually I think you have it completely backwards. I am fighting against this to protect the future for my kids. I want them to be able to have the opportunity to hunt a state with real age structure. Sure, anyone can kill a deer. Big deal. Michigan kills tons more deer.... hunting sucks tho. There is a reason that Iowa is the envy of every hunter in the midwest.... because we have the BEST hunting. Do you think that is an accident? Ie... Missouri has WAAAAAAY better habitat than Iowa, but their hunting isn't even close to Iowa. Wonder why?????!!?!

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Nathan Gibson said:
Legalize high-power and I guarantee you would see almost a 30-50% increase in tags/license the next year.

OR, scratch hi-powers....lets just go back to shotguns and get rid of straight walls, and move the shotgun season to the beginning of the rut at the same time as bow season??? You guys okay with that? It gets rid of straightwalls and you are happy right????


The current laws have EVERYTHING to do with loss of hunters.
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Explain why the loss of hunter is nation wide then. Hunters arnt being lost "just in iowa". Its across the board. It has NOTHING to do with the rules.

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IowaBowHunter1983 said:
Nathan...... actually I think you have it completely backwards. I am fighting against this to protect the future for my kids. I want them to be able to have the opportunity to hunt a state with real age structure. Sure, anyone can kill a deer. Big deal. Michigan kills tons more deer.... hunting sucks tho. There is a reason that Iowa is the envy of every hunter in the midwest.... because we have the BEST hunting. Do you think that is an accident? Ie... Missouri has WAAAAAAY better habitat than Iowa, but their hunting isn't even close to Iowa. Wonder why?????!!?!

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You are delusional if you think Iowa has the monopoly on big dear and is the best. Missouri, Illinois, Michigan, Minnesota, all are comparable to Iowa. Its just easier for kids to hunt their and safer because they don't have masssive groups of people slugging through timber slinging lead and wounding deer and putting others in danger because all they allow is shotguns.
 
Ok, let's take Matt W's and Nathan G's posts at face value...

And then I'll add to it...

Matt W. seemed to beat around the bush a little, but with his vague notions in his post it was apparent what he was getting at... gun/ammo sales, and future license sales...

Nathan G went full on AOC on us, (which I actually respect the heck out of)...don't beat around the bush, get right to it.
Allowing wide open gun sales will HOPEFULLY bring new and future hunters into mix for future license sales
So when you hear the catch phrase "future license sales", we better hope the Iowa DNR is not behind this legislation...because it's game over and there will be a state wide rifle season within 5-10 years...
If the Iowa DNR wants more revenue...increase license fees on resident and non-residents

Let's say a new law passed that allowed all center fire rifles (.223 up to .50 cal) to be used during the 2 gun seasons in December...
Think about this... would there be a rush to the local gas station for new hunters/kids to buy licenses for the upcoming season? Would there?
Would you as a parent be more likely to introduce your child to hunting because they can now carry a centerfire rifle that will humanely kill a deer at 500 yards vs 150 yards?

Here's what I'll add to it...you want to make it easier for hunters to get deer?

Here is the BIGGEST thing that could recruit new hunters, by allowing more opportunities to hunt deer...Why not allow BAITING of deer like they do in some other States and some Canadian provinces?
Seriously...why not allow baiting of deer? That would make it alot easier for a new hunter to get a deer wouldn't it. That should probably recruit a new age class of younger hunters
I'd bet nothing makes deer hunting easier than setting out a big pile of bait for the deer to munch on, right?

So...If we are looking at this in a long range time line...do you guys really think that allowing centerfire rifles will bring more hunters, or less hunters into the mix or the next 20-50 years?

It's my opinion that the decline in hunter recruitment will continue for a very long time, until hunting and the gun culture starts to be viewed by the general public, AND THE NON-HUNTING population, in a more positive light.
In the next 20 years do you think guns (any gun...slug gun, 450 Bushmaster, 416 Barret) as a whole will be viewed in a more postive light, or more negative light that they are now?

Am I more likely as a parent to take my kids hunting if I know my neighbors are making a deer drive next to our property with centerfire rifles that can kill up to a mile away?
Or am I more likely to take my kid hunting if I know my neighbors are making a deer drive next to our property with 20 and 12 gauge slug guns, and start shooting at a deer?

You guys get an A+ for trying to tug at our heart strings, by using our kids as bargaining chips in this debate.

Bottom line... is this new legislation about the 2A gun/ammo lobby getting involved to increase gun/ammo sales?
Because we all know they are taking a huge hit in this economy, and the outlook is very bleak if they don't get new hunters recruited

I'm guessing this new legislation was introduced for the same reason, that on a Nation wide basis the Deer farm/Deer urine industry faces NO ramification for the CWD that is popping up everywhere...

$$$
 
Nathan Gibson said:
You are delusional if you think Iowa has the monopoly on big dear and is the best. Missouri, Illinois, Michigan, Minnesota, all are comparable to Iowa. Its just easier for kids to hunt their and safer because they don't have masssive groups of people slugging through timber slinging lead and wounding deer and putting others in danger because all they allow is shotguns.
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Bahahahahaha.....Have you actually hunted those states ? I have. Michigan for 15 years actually. It's GARBAGE. Why do people move out of those states to move to Iowa? Because its EXPONENTIALLY better. I've hunted them all. Have you?

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I do appreciate you coming on here. Sincerely.

What is your affiliation with the NRA or gun/ammo manufacturers?

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Nathan Gibson said:
Its just easier for kids to hunt their and safer because they don't have masssive groups of people slugging through timber slinging lead and wounding deer and putting others in danger because all they allow is shotguns.
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You are delusional if you think adding these extra cartridges are going to make it safer. The number of AR platformed guns in the timber slinging god knows how many more rounds than a shotgun will de ridiculous let alone these calibers have a lot more velocity carrying the bullets farther.

But maybe again 25 years old is an old bow hunter that doesn’t know a thing. A degree in wildlife biology and minor in animal ecology means I know nothing about population dynamics. If you think this is going to help the hunting in Iowa you are f*cking idiot.




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Nathan Gibson said:
You are delusional if you think Iowa has the monopoly on big dear and is the best. Missouri, Illinois, Michigan, Minnesota, all are comparable to Iowa. Its just easier for kids to hunt their and safer because they don't have masssive groups of people slugging through timber slinging lead and wounding deer and putting others in danger because all they allow is shotguns.
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Nathan you need to b updated on your comparison of Michigan to Iowa.
Don't know where you got your info from, but I live in MI and hunted it my WHOLE life, also hunt Iowa. You must be referring to a some very SMALL PART of MI that I am not aware of.
 
Nathan Gibson said:
You are delusional if you think Iowa has the monopoly on big dear and is the best. Missouri, Illinois, Michigan, Minnesota, all are comparable to Iowa. Its just easier for kids to hunt their and safer because they don't have masssive groups of people slugging through timber slinging lead and wounding deer and putting others in danger because all they allow is shotguns.
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Shotguns are more dangerous than rifles? Please cite a scientific study.

Or are you trying to end deer drives? I don’t see that legislation being introduced.

Shotgun only didn’t stop people from embracing deer hunting in the past. I started with gun back in the 70’s and still hunt with bow and gun. I own centerfire rifles legal to take deer in other states, have traveled to use them, and have VERY little desire to use them in Iowa. I’ve come to find that it isn’t all about me.


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Ishi said:
Waiting on your reply Nathan!
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I have no affiliation with the NRA or Gun manufacturers. Other than, I am a life member of the NRA, and I spend an insane amount of money each month to support my kids in trap and other shooting sports?

Your turn, why do you believe anyone that hunts with something other than a bow is a bad guy and its negative?
 
Nathan Gibson said:
What is with you all. The sport is dying in Iowa. With each year, less and less of you bow hunters are in the field and the license counts are going down, and less people like us exist. We are a dieing breed. And when a bill comes out to expand the opportunities to get more people engaged and open up more options, you decry it....with false facts. This bill does not legalize straighwalls. Would you guys look up from your protected "bow hunter kingdom" for a moment and realize whats happening to our sport and our industry. The DNR has numbers to prove it. Each year, less and less of us get out in the field. Instead of beating up Pro 2A legislators why don't you work with us to get more people in the field.

I am the one that pushed and authored alot of this legislation. You want to ask questions, ask them here. There is an army of us hunters that are asking for this, we asked the legislators to do this. HUNTERS just like you. So here is your chance. Beat me up, beet a fellow hunter up. Ask me the tuff questions. We just want to get more youth and more people in the field. In 20 years, the DNR won't have any money to perserve any wildlife because you all have died off, and didn't do your job to encourage new people to get out in the field.

Is that the legacy you want to hand down?
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Nathan,
a quick google search of your name found me a lot of pro gun content, including an article in the register(I don't have a problem with any of that) . What I didn't find was any content on the net from you pertaining to hunting. I'm not saying it isn't there, I just didn't find any. How would you compare your hunting passion to your shooting passion? Are you as knowledgeable about season structure impact on a herd as you are a ballistics calculator?
I ask because many of us are worried that some 2A guys are suddenly jumping the fence into wildlife conservation territory with no real knowledge of the impact. ( btw, it looks like were about the same age, I'm not sure if that makes me old or not...;))
 
IowaBowHunter1983 said:
Bahahahahaha.....Have you actually hunted those states ? I have. Michigan for 15 years actually. It's GARBAGE. Why do people move out of those states to move to Iowa? Because its EXPONENTIALLY better. I've hunted them all. Have you?

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I have, I hunt in about 6 different states each year.
 
hillrunner said:
Nathan,
a quick google search of your name found me a lot of pro gun content, including an article in the register(I don't have a problem with any of that) . What I didn't find was any content on the net from you pertaining to hunting. I'm not saying it isn't there, I just didn't find any. How would you compare your hunting passion to your shooting passion? Are you as knowledgeable about season structure impact on a herd as you are a ballistics calculator?
I ask because many of us are worried that some 2A guys are suddenly jumping the fence into wildlife conservation territory with no real knowledge of the impact. ( btw, it looks like were about the same age, I'm not sure if that makes me old or not...;))
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https://www.facebook.com/likemeredi...241282206668/1525185047545620/?type=3&theater - My Kids
https://www.facebook.com/likemeredi...241282206668/2114420098622109/?type=3&theater - My daughter placeing 3rd in the Nation with my dog
https://www.facebook.com/likemeredi...241282206668/1183098965087565/?type=3&theater - My daughter with her first buck
https://www.facebook.com/likemeredi...636804433782/1537882649609193/?type=3&theater - My daughter with her 2nd buck
https://www.facebook.com/likemeredi...636804433782/1395017573895702/?type=3&theater - My daughter with her turkey
https://www.facebook.com/likemeredi...636804433782/1599735883423869/?type=3&theater - My daughter and I with our dogs

I could post dozens more of these.

I also am very well educated, and don't want to debate knowledge levels here. At its core, this thread is about one thing and one thing only. A bunch of BOW hunters scared they are going to loose their monopoly on big bucks in Iowa. Makes me sick because its at the expense of other sportsmen in Iowa. We are supposed to be on the same team. Makes me sick to my stomach seeing you all fighting this.
 
JNRBRONC said:
Shotguns are more dangerous than rifles? Please cite a scientific study.

Or are you trying to end deer drives? I don’t see that legislation being introduced.

Shotgun only didn’t stop people from embracing deer hunting in the past. I started with gun back in the 70’s and still hunt with bow and gun. I own centerfire rifles legal to take deer in other states, have traveled to use them, and have VERY little desire to use them in Iowa. I’ve come to find that it isn’t all about me.


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Im not trying to end deer drives. Thats a historical and time honored tradition in Iowa. Im just saying we need to open up more options, remove complicated legislation, and make ALL hunting in iowa more inviting and eaiser. More legislations, restrictions, and DNR over reach == less people wanting to get into the field. Thats the bottom line.
 
JNRBRONC said:
Shotguns are more dangerous than rifles? Please cite a scientific study.

Or are you trying to end deer drives? I don’t see that legislation being introduced.

Shotgun only didn’t stop people from embracing deer hunting in the past. I started with gun back in the 70’s and still hunt with bow and gun. I own centerfire rifles legal to take deer in other states, have traveled to use them, and have VERY little desire to use them in Iowa. I’ve come to find that it isn’t all about me.


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What about people that want to shoot centerfire, and don't want to shoot a shotgun, and want to do it in Iowa because they don't have the money or information to shoot in other states. When you support government restriction on something that benefits you (cause you want the big bucks for yourself) then it is about you.
 
Where are you getting Bow from? You've been on that pony from the get go. I own plenty of firearms and hunt with any that are legal as well as the majority of others here. But I don't feel the need for anymore calibers to be added. Was it really your kids that needed the new weapons to be able to deer hunt or did Dad just wanna give them a new toy? Have you guys conducted any polls about how new guns are creating new hunters?
 
CurtisWalker said:
You are delusional if you think adding these extra cartridges are going to make it safer. The number of AR platformed guns in the timber slinging god knows how many more rounds than a shotgun will de ridiculous let alone these calibers have a lot more velocity carrying the bullets farther.

But maybe again 25 years old is an old bow hunter that doesn’t know a thing. A degree in wildlife biology and minor in animal ecology means I know nothing about population dynamics. If you think this is going to help the hunting in Iowa you are f*cking idiot.




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I definently don't want wildlife biologist setting legislation. They have a specific myopic view of how to appropriately manage the heard. This is why IM glad we have an NRC commission that reviews DNR rules and legislators that set law.
 
Nathan Gibson said:
Im not trying to end deer drives. Thats a historical and time honored tradition in Iowa. Im just saying we need to open up more options, remove complicated legislation, and make ALL hunting in iowa more inviting and eaiser. More legislations, restrictions, and DNR over reach == less people wanting to get into the field. Thats the bottom line.
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I think access is a bigger issue than “DNR over reach”. And don’t paint so broadly with the “bunch of bow hunters” brush if you are looking to unite.

Hunting isn’t supposed to be easy. If it were, what challenge would there be?

Hunter recruitment is down due to urbanization, lack of access and the bad press firearms are getting from mass shootings, IMP.


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