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HF716/necked cartridge update

Senator Chris Cournoyer said:
My name is Senator Chris Cournoyer and I have been assigned the chair of the Senate Sub-committee for HF716. We will not act on this bill this week as we are still learning more about it. If you would like to send me information, please email me at: Chris.Cournoyer@legis.iowa.gov. I would like to hear from you. Thanks -
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I sent you two emails on this subject already and might send more to committee members.
Might be a first to have a legislator join IW!
Welcome to the site Chris
 
Senator Chris Cournoyer said:
My name is Senator Chris Cournoyer and I have been assigned the chair of the Senate Sub-committee for HF716. We will not act on this bill this week as we are still learning more about it. If you would like to send me information, please email me at: Chris.Cournoyer@legis.iowa.gov. I would like to hear from you. Thanks -
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Thanks for joining and listening Chris. Your desire to hear all sides is admirable. That is what a senator/representative should do. Taking the time to join and read is very much appreciated.

If you read this thread and all the emails already sent, you will get a pretty good picture of what the vast majority of this group thinks about this bill and all the others that are focused on making Iowa like all other states (worse deer hunting) as well as those that make it more difficult to gain public land in Iowa. Access is the issue most impacting hunter number - not the amount of weapons that can be used. If you read the posts from the man who said he helped write this bill, he exposes his view that rifles should be allowed in November (the rut), which is where most of us believed the proponents of these bills were headed. He just finally admitted it. Please look at the long term impacts and don't focus on the "it just cleans stuff up, adds a few more rifle cartridges, and sure would be swell for the kids" speak. This bill is moving deer management and hunting in the WRONG direction.
 
Your emails need to include the list of allowable cartridges from .350 to .50" caliber with a LIMITLESS cartridge length (this is the list that Fishbonker posted).
This list includes many African game style cartridges that nobody in their right mind would let a kid shoot, to get the introduced to hunting.
Other cartridges on this list include some of the most ultra long range target cartridges avilable, that are used in 2 mile + shooting competitions...yes 2 mile + shooting competitions.
The majority of the cartridges on this list are NOT USED FOR DEER HUNTING IN ANY APPLICATION. Can they be used for deer hunting?...yes of course, but would you introduce a kid to deer hunting with a .460 Weatherby Magnum of a 375 RUM?

Your emails need to include the list of allowable cartridges from .350 to .50" caliber with a LIMITED CASE LENGTH OF 1.8". Some of these would include the .375 SOCOM, the .458 SOCOM, the 375 Raptor.
These 3 examples are primarily used on the AR style guns. Which would be more of a deer hunting style cartridge.

And bottom line we all know this is a Gateway bill to eventually allow all bottle necked rifle cartridges, with an unlimited case length, during the deer seasons.
How do we know that?...Because we were told by it's supporters/proponents that it was.
 
Here to go folks a Senator askig for more info!
We have a chance of beating this dastardly bill so SEND emails..... now is the time
 
I spoke on the phone with Richard Rogers for about 20 minutes last night. He's the leader of the IA firearms coalition and a big supporter of this bill. This bill was introduced by Terry Baxter for north central IA and Senator Windschitl has been the voice/face for it to through this whole process. Mr Rogers was very good at explaining the bill and he said it was written as a clean-up of the legal pistols for hunting. AR pistols were legal, than weren't, and people were surprised by and getting tickets for a weapon that was previously legal. So this was their re-write of the laws to clean it up. Sure, sounds like a great story... but they left out case length restrictions as has been mentioned many times on here. It was never admitted and only briefly mentioned by Mr. Rogers that this "could be" fixed in a future year. That is BS as you all know. This is a stepping stone for them to get some big rifles introduced as legal. Then it's a slam dunk to get the rest of the more common small caliber rifles introduced. But you've all mentioned that here already.

The part of this bill that Mr. Rogers spoke to me the longest on had nothing to do with the changes we are all concerned about. It had to do with changing some laws about people under 21 and if they could use a pistol under adult supervision, or something along those lines. Mr. Rogers said when this bill passed the House there was an 1.5 hour discussion on this bill and it was all about this portion of it and the concern of getting pistols in more youths hands. Very little discussion about the portion we are concerned with. Now that it has passed the House written as is, Mr Rogers and the rest of his group are very reluctant to rewrite the bill, which would cause it to go back to the House where they had some difficulty getting it out of there in the first place.

They've done a fine job piggy backing this "fix" on to another bill. They're also doing a great job inching their way to getting all rifles legalized. We cannot stop with the emails. I'll be contacting Mr. Rogers again tonight and hopefully this time I can have a chance to voice my concern vs listening to his explanation and history of this bill. It was very informative but as we know, it's not the entire story. Whether they directly intended to legalize high caliber rifles or not (I believe they do) or that is a direct outcome... it CANNOT happen.
 
That has been my interpretation from the start. If you google Nathan Gibson there is a newspaper article from 2014 about his daughter not being able to shoot pistol. I remember reading the article at the time and was equally frustrated as he was with the nonsense law. I get that was a frustrating thing and I side with him on his stance. But there needs to be a non hunting related bill for that not one that will negatively affect the natural resource we all enjoy.
 
bigbuckhunter88 said:
That has been my interpretation from the start. If you google Nathan Gibson there is a newspaper article from 2014 about his daughter not being able to shoot pistol. I remember reading the article at the time and was equally frustrated as he was with the nonsense law. I get that was a frustrating thing and I side with him on his stance. But there needs to be a non hunting related bill for that not one that will negatively affect the natural resource we all enjoy.
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That was my exact comment to Mr. Rogers. To me, the part they're having the most issues with was a slam dunk law that needed fixed. I was completely on board with them on that. The other part of this bill about making these high caliber rifles legal needs to be separated but he said they're related and were put together on to one bill... that's going to hamper them passing the portion of this bill that should be passed.
 
Senator Chris Cournoyer said:
My name is Senator Chris Cournoyer and I have been assigned the chair of the Senate Sub-committee for HF716. We will not act on this bill this week as we are still learning more about it. If you would like to send me information, please email me at: Chris.Cournoyer@legis.iowa.gov. I would like to hear from you. Thanks -
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Hello Chris. I actually sent you an email regarding this yesterday. I hope you take the time to read it. As I mentioned in the email, I speak from a unique perspective of experience. i lived in Indiana and saw this exact legislation happen there. i have seen this movie before, and it doesn't end well. I would be more than happy to come speak to the legislature about this. Thank you for taking the time to come on here and speak to the people this bill will affect.
 
Senator Chris Cournoyer said:
My name is Senator Chris Cournoyer and I have been assigned the chair of the Senate Sub-committee for HF716. We will not act on this bill this week as we are still learning more about it. If you would like to send me information, please email me at: Chris.Cournoyer@legis.iowa.gov. I would like to hear from you. Thanks -
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Chris,

Thank you for taking the time to consider what this bill means for the future of Iowa hunting. As others have said this bill will do nothing to help hunter recruitment as previous bills regarding straight walled cartridges have introduced plenty of new options for youth. Hunter recruitment is something that states across the US have struggled with and is not unique to Iowa. Access to hunting properties is one of the bigger challenges most hunters face unless they know someone who will allow them access to their property. The current IHAP program is a great way to try to appeal to landowners to open up their properties for hunting if they so choose but often times this can lead to a bidding war with outfitters and leases which outbid the IHAP reimbursements. Ultimately, Iowa already has great hunting and plenty of legal weapons of take for all hunters including youth. Please work with your other colleagues to find ways to increase access to land and mentor programs if you want to help with hunter recruitment.

The following link may help to illustrate one of the current problems with the bill being proposed without cartridge length requirements. To summarize the article a .416 Barrett, which would be allowed under this current bill proposal, was used to successfully make a shot at 3 miles (6000 yds). This type of gun is not one that would be appropriate for youth or anyone for that matter for the purpose of hunting deer.

https://www.wideopenspaces.com/this-6000-yard-shot-takes-long-range-shooting-to-a-new-level/
 
Thank you Sen. Cournoyer for your diligence in working to understand this issue fully, I know many people here on this site greatly appreciate your effort in that regard. I think that many others have already spoken to the more technical side of this issue, that is, the specific cartridges, the allowable lengths, etc, so I would like to direct my comments towards the issue(s) that I see in more general terms.

Briefly, there have been many bills introduced in the past few years that would potentially impact the whitetail deer herd here in Iowa and of course all of the people that in one way or the other, interact with the deer. That includes hunters, farmers, drivers, gardeners, etc, etc. Not all objectives and wishes can be mutually satisfied at the same time with such disparity of goals across those groups...so that makes your job pretty difficult as I see it. Because what sounds good, or even just benign, on the surface to one constituency can actually lead to very detrimental unintended consequences for another. Also, one group can be all for something, but have little understanding or regard for the impact on others...which is a pitfall too.

Therefore, please consider carefully AND LISTEN to all sides prior to passing such bills, as things are rarely as easy as they seem at first. (BTW, I believe you are doing just that, so thank you very much.) And here is my main point...generally speaking, from the standpoint of conservation minded hunters...Iowa is the best state in the nation in terms of how they manage their deer herd...we should NOT be changing regulations willy nilly so as to satisfy one particular group, as we run a great risk of upsetting the proverbial apple cart...which would be a true shame. (I acknowledge that in terms of having the "right" number of deer in the state so that hunters and farmers and drivers, etc, can all be happy is a difficult balancing act.)

Many times it seems as though bills are "sold" as one thing, when there are really other motivations at work...that seems to be the case here too. Please continue to be on guard for that possibility. Bottom line...there are ALREADY PLENTY of ways for the free people of Iowa, young and old, to harvest, deer in this state. Moving towards high powered rifles being normalized is NOT necessary and will NOT in any way actually lead to more "opportunity". Thank you for listening, we appreciate it. Dave A.
 
Daver said:
Thank you Sen. Cournoyer for your diligence in working to understand this issue fully, I know many people here on this site greatly appreciate your effort in that regard. I think that many others have already spoken to the more technical side of this issue, that is, the specific cartridges, the allowable lengths, etc, so I would like to direct my comments towards the issue(s) that I see in more general terms.

Briefly, there have been many bills introduced in the past few years that would potentially impact the whitetail deer herd here in Iowa and of course all of the people that in one way or the other, interact with the deer. That includes hunters, farmers, drivers, gardeners, etc, etc. Not all objectives and wishes can be mutually satisfied at the same time with such disparity of goals across those groups...so that makes your job pretty difficult as I see it. Because what sounds good, or even just benign, on the surface to one constituency can actually lead to very detrimental unintended consequences for another. Also, one group can be all for something, but have little understanding or regard for the impact on others...which is a pitfall too.

Therefore, please consider carefully AND LISTEN to all sides prior to passing such bills, as things are rarely as easy as they seem at first. (BTW, I believe you are doing just that, so thank you very much.) And here is my main point...generally speaking, from the standpoint of conservation minded hunters...Iowa is the best state in the nation in terms of how they manage their deer herd...we should NOT be changing regulations willy nilly so as to satisfy one particular group, as we run a great risk of upsetting the proverbial apple cart...which would be a true shame. (I acknowledge that in terms of having the "right" number of deer in the state so that hunters and farmers and drivers, etc, can all be happy is a difficult balancing act.)

Many times it seems as though bills are "sold" as one thing, when there are really other motivations at work...that seems to be the case here too. Please continue to be on guard for that possibility. Bottom line...there are ALREADY PLENTY of ways for the free people of Iowa, young and old, to harvest, deer in this state. Moving towards high powered rifles being normalized is NOT necessary and will NOT in any way actually lead to more "opportunity". Thank you for listening, we appreciate it. Dave A.
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Extremely well written Daver!!
 
All, when I saw the post by Senator Cournoyer this morning I was a bit skeptical that it was actually the Senator posting. To find out I emailed her this AM and just received the following reply:


Tom,

Yes, that was me. My husband is a member of your group and said that HF716 was a “hot topic” and I wanted to let everyone know that if they want to communicate concerns with me, I would welcome them to email me. I am chairing the sub-committee for Natural Resources in the Senate.

But also know that we have concerns about the House bill as well and intend to address them. The 2nd funnel week is next week, so if it doesn’t get through next week, it will be done.

Thanks for confirming!

Chris



This is good news indeed. If I lived in her district she would have earned my vote on this bill alone.

Thank you Senator Cournoyer!
 
I am the one that "tipped off" Senator Chris Cournoyer to this forum. I can say for sure she will work hard on this bill and understanding the details around each side so I'd encourage you to write and show up in person since everything that crosses her desk has tons of information to be really educated on so talking to her in person I think makes a big impact to make her understand your views. I gave her my .02 cents for sure over the last few days and I'm sure I lean on the conservative side of conservation on this topic and I'd like to keep the chase fair and safe and limit long range weapons for herd health and safety reasons. We have twin boys that have started to show keen interest on hunting and would like to keep it safe and shots accurate and ethical as well.

Great site....been a lurker forever with a few extended breaks over the years. My username was LOCUST for a while (named after my favorite tree on our hunting land in southern Iowa). Huge fan of DblTree's forums in the past and get a snicker every time I read a Fishbonker post.
 
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