How best to determine cash rent acres?

[deerdown]

Not sure how to get this info. On my tillable ground, I see acres change, year over year, and differences between planted acres vs harvested acres even in the same year.

For example, on 1 farm these were the tillable acres reported :

2023 Planting monitor said 173.4a Harvest monitor said 171.2a 2022 Harvest monitor said 177.4a on this same farm, same farmer..... What's the best way to determine acres for cash rent when you have these disparities? Thx

 

[Sligh1]

I’d measure it on surety or even onyx. U probably are getting some overlap. Or sometimes guys will plant through the waterways and sometimes they don’t. Same with harvest. Little variables like that can sway the acres.
If the FSA tillable is say “175 acres” & they certify 175 acres. But they say “well it’s really 173 acres” ….. I’d probably just roll with the flow & give the difference to the farmer. If it’s over 5 acres…. I’d probably measure it out and also get the data on FSA tillable acres. As long as u have info & are fair …. Easy stuff to work out.

 

[deerdown]

Thanks for the info. I've been really flexible with the tenant - and, he with me....but as I continue to pay for tile and terraces, which add acres, I was wanting to at least understand how many acres that is adding, as well as get paid for that investment. Spending tens of thousands with no return doesn't make the bookkeeper very happy, in this house anyway.

But, I was just trying to get some good solid numbers.
I just don't understand how to get there. Surety or OnX would be a lot of drawing and guesswork wouldn't it? I was trying to get better numbers than that.

You said - If the FSA tillable is say “175 acres” & they certify 175 acres....who does the certification? I guess I have rarely, if ever, seen the acres in production actually match the FSA tillable acres so I'm curious by this comment and how I could use it in my determination. TIA

 

[CottonwoodCanyon]

We go by FSA tillable acres. If there are discrepancies then that's a discussion to have with your tenant. 6 acres difference from harvest monitor from year to year seems like a lot...

 

[newfarmer]

Around here the FSA office drives around the fields with GPS units and gets verified acres. Then after that- you always have your acreage, it’s up to your renter then to figure out how he’s “losing” ground. Maybe he doesn’t get his equipment calibrated or who knows- but start with FSA and go from there. 6 acres is a lot- and here when rent of over $300/acre, that adds up fast

 

[deerdown]

Around here the FSA office drives around the fields with GPS units and gets verified acres. Then after that- you always have your acreage, it’s up to your renter then to figure out how he’s “losing” ground. Maybe he doesn’t get his equipment calibrated or who knows- but start with FSA and go from there. 6 acres is a lot- and here when rent of over $300/acre, that adds up fast

This helps a bunch, thanks. I always try to be fair, and this sounds like a fair way to start a conversation....

 

[Buckscrape]

Sorry to say, but gps acres will most likely be less than seeded or harvested acres. But it'll be the fairest.

 

[Nrharris]

The easy answer is to use whatever you want because you are the landowner. For instance I farm a 160 that I pay rent for the whole 160. Only plants and harvests about 155. You can set the total rent due and the tenant can divide it by how ever many acres he wants. You can use fsa certified acres but in my experience those acres are generally less than what is actually there.

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

I measure all the fields with aerial photos that then become attachments to the cash rent agreement.

I measure around waterways. Some people include them which I don't think is fair to farmer.

 

[deerdown]

I measure all the fields with aerial photos that then become attachments to the cash rent agreement.

I measure around waterways. Some people include them which I don't think is fair to farmer.

That sounds like a lot of drawing, and I find it hard to follow the creeks, waterways, timber when going over a large parcel.
I admire the effort for sure! Do you use something like area calculator or Google earth to do this?

 

[JBAGS]

That sounds like a lot of drawing, and I find it hard to follow the creeks, waterways, timber when going over a large parcel.
I admire the effort for sure! Do you use something like area calculator or Google earth to do this?

Onx or google earth is very easy to draw around fields to get the area. Do it all the time to get exact measurements on food plots so I don't overdo it on the seed.

 

[deerdown]

I called the FSA office and talked to them about it. They sent me the Producers Print, I think is what they called it? It says Abbreviated 156 Farm Record at the top and shows Cropland, DCP Cropland, Effective DCP Cropland, etc.....From what I can decipher, Effective DCP Cropland is what is currently in Production. The gal at the office said they redraw/measure the tillable acres every year on each farm. The farm I used in the original post has 180.67a of Effective DCP cropland listed, 7a more than tenant is paying for. At $265 rent per tillable acre, that adds up to quite a bit of money. When I look across our farms, there's only 1 that the lease has higher than what the effective DCP acres show, by 2a. The rest are between 1 - 7a less. We'll at least talk about it in February when we have our annual meeting.
I appreciate everyone's input.

edited for spelling and clarification

 

[Windwalker]

Yep just have FSA Gov. office do a measure. Point rows really screw up planter measurement.

 

[Duckriver]

Don't forget that slope matters. Most digital mapping including the planter acreage , onx maps, and fsa maps is determining acres in 2d. Slope can affect that and can cause measurements to be off lot.
If your happy and farmer is happy no reason to worry.

 

[Nightvision]

Planted acres and harvested acres vary because of crop damage and down here in the south dry land corners where the irrigation doesn’t reach.

Crop damage isn’t your responsibility. I would however caution you to asses your relationship with your renter. Yes, 5/6 acres at $300.00 an acre adds up quick but if you have a renter who pays on time and takes care of your land that can be worth a lot in itself.

 

[ELK919]

So, I just had a conversation my local FSA office about a month ago, because I had my tenant do some brushclearing and sodbusting to create more tillable acres to create farming history going forward (to generate the largest ROI in cash rent or if I want to put into CRP, etc down the road). However, He brush cleared some acres that he was not suppose to, and yes he did have a clearly marked map, so I had to figure out a way to the exact acres that he cleared and planted cover crops in. The easiest way I found to do it was utilize OnX tracker while on the atv and drove around the outside edge of the field to get total field acres. And then I would start a new track and walk around each waterway or unplantable area to subtract from the tillable acres. My place is an old cattle grazing pasture, so there were mulitple waterways to trace but the total time was not really that extensive.

Once, I had all that info, I went to the FSA office and we were able to map out on their software the exact tracks, etc for obtaining the exact acres to be farmed.

Now as far as what gets planted and what the FSA certifies being the same amount, I have no idea. But as the landowner, I feel as though it is not my responsibility for the farmer/tenant to maximize those acres. If the tillible acres are hypothetically 170 acres and he only plants 160, thats on them. I am looking to maximize my ROI and what is agreed upon in the contract stands.