Hardwood11
It is going to be a good fall!
If you guys do an inventory (trail cam) or (visual in the field)...of say for example your top 5 or top 10 bucks. How many survive the season on average? Curious to compare. Thanks
How many bucks survive (on average)
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Wi transplant
PMA Member
Last 2 yrs we had 5 and 4 bucks that made through seasons that would be 4 plus yr old nxt yr. Had them through the winter but only. 1 each yr buy fall and hunting seasons ? Never seen again ? Ehd ? Poaching ? Thats 7 bucks in 2 yrs that just vanished !
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Wi transplant
PMA Member
Not just my farm but my whole section. Never seen buy neighbors ethier
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bigbuckhunter88
PMA Member
Usually majority of 3+ make it through. On average maybe 15 deer that are 3+ on camera each year. Neighbors take down a couple and if we are lucky enough to get a couple and lose a few to getting hit on highway. If we have 15 I'd guess 10 make it through. Some will disperse and only make summer, winter, or walk through rut appearances though
My smallest farms with most pressure..... I still recall years & years of saying “over 50% chance if we pass he’ll make it”. That included stuff beyond getting shot (vehicle, disease, fighting, etc). Yes- those were pretty decent cover but nothing insane. I know some buddies claimed way less & maybe some other variables at play.
Bigger farms.... I’d say 75% survive. No doubt that a buck will survive - find sheds & sometimes disappear next year..... maybe that’s death after shed or sometimes it’s “find him in velvet & disappears in late September when fighting or relocates”.
Last few years my home farm had bad poaching. Caught the main guy. Mainly got my neighbors as mine is so screened off. Then the cycles of ehd - more on neighbors & I haven’t got hit bad since 2015.
Bottom line..... still think more deer survive hunting than many think. Those deer are survival machines when there isn’t guys with guns hunting them in the rut. I hear the “negative perspective” often (neighbors kill em all) - MOST the time- I don’t buy it. Especially when they hit 4+ Or if guys think their 4+ year olds r getting killed by neighbors- not usually true IMO....
& that’s another subject..... when a deer hits 4-5 - I see their chance of being shot go way down - they are Too smart to get whacked easily. The ones year in, year out I always “worry” about, hoping they are Not getting shot, is 2-3 year old studs..... fairly easy targets, not crafty like older bucks and sport nicer racks. Once they escape that age- IMO- they are dang smart & become very hard to kill & those are the best survivors that escape hunters.
Bigger farms.... I’d say 75% survive. No doubt that a buck will survive - find sheds & sometimes disappear next year..... maybe that’s death after shed or sometimes it’s “find him in velvet & disappears in late September when fighting or relocates”.
Last few years my home farm had bad poaching. Caught the main guy. Mainly got my neighbors as mine is so screened off. Then the cycles of ehd - more on neighbors & I haven’t got hit bad since 2015.
Bottom line..... still think more deer survive hunting than many think. Those deer are survival machines when there isn’t guys with guns hunting them in the rut. I hear the “negative perspective” often (neighbors kill em all) - MOST the time- I don’t buy it. Especially when they hit 4+ Or if guys think their 4+ year olds r getting killed by neighbors- not usually true IMO....
& that’s another subject..... when a deer hits 4-5 - I see their chance of being shot go way down - they are Too smart to get whacked easily. The ones year in, year out I always “worry” about, hoping they are Not getting shot, is 2-3 year old studs..... fairly easy targets, not crafty like older bucks and sport nicer racks. Once they escape that age- IMO- they are dang smart & become very hard to kill & those are the best survivors that escape hunters.
bwese
Active Member
I have been running a survey since Jan. 1. My corn piles coincided perfectly with the bad cold snap.
Farm one, 80 acres located on backside of Missouri River bluffs, 50/50 timber/pasture and corn/beans
Of the 8 bucks that were 3.5 and older seen on my property since Oct 1, three of those got shot and the other 5 have shown up to the corn or have been kind enough to go in front of other cameras on the farm. Two of the bucks shot were at least 4 and one was a great 3.5 yr old that was a dead deer walking as he was all over in the daylight. Too bad he got arrowed and then found two days later, coyotes had clean up most of him. All three were shot on neighboring property. They also took several 2.5 year olds as well and lost 2 others. (all in NE's rifle season during prime time)I was super shocked and excited when I pulled the cards this past weekend and saw they survived. Next year is looking good. I'm sure they all won't be around come hunting season but most will.
Of the two that I green lighted one could have been shot several times on our place but my buddy who got a lifetime buck last year let it pass hoping he would go to the our buddy's kid(father and son sitting together) or to the vet trying to get his first whitetail. The buck went too far north and took a bullet. The other one that was green lighted was shot on the same property second to last evening of the season.
Farm two, 55 acres located in farm country with little isolated chunks of timber and connected by creeks
It had always given 3.5 yr deer a better than 75% chance of making it until the next season but not this year. I don't see it getting any better in the near future. Hopefully my crp application will be accepted and I can start to get some habitat for the wildlife going. The farmer to the north tore out 10 acres of old oak, hickory, elm, etc. Terra formed it and now farms it. It was top notch habitat. The carrying capacity diminished as did the ability to hide. It pushed deer on to either mine or the neighbors. They don't pass much if anything and this year they knocked down the only buck green lighted and the other two that were 3.5 or older were also knocked down. One with a bullet and the other with a vehicle. Two of the up an coming 2.5s disappeared by the end of rifle. No idea what happened. This is the 8th year of owning this farm and every year a new 3.5 or older buck has shown by now to winter in my area but nothing so far.
Farm one, 80 acres located on backside of Missouri River bluffs, 50/50 timber/pasture and corn/beans
Of the 8 bucks that were 3.5 and older seen on my property since Oct 1, three of those got shot and the other 5 have shown up to the corn or have been kind enough to go in front of other cameras on the farm. Two of the bucks shot were at least 4 and one was a great 3.5 yr old that was a dead deer walking as he was all over in the daylight. Too bad he got arrowed and then found two days later, coyotes had clean up most of him. All three were shot on neighboring property. They also took several 2.5 year olds as well and lost 2 others. (all in NE's rifle season during prime time)I was super shocked and excited when I pulled the cards this past weekend and saw they survived. Next year is looking good. I'm sure they all won't be around come hunting season but most will.
Of the two that I green lighted one could have been shot several times on our place but my buddy who got a lifetime buck last year let it pass hoping he would go to the our buddy's kid(father and son sitting together) or to the vet trying to get his first whitetail. The buck went too far north and took a bullet. The other one that was green lighted was shot on the same property second to last evening of the season.
Farm two, 55 acres located in farm country with little isolated chunks of timber and connected by creeks
It had always given 3.5 yr deer a better than 75% chance of making it until the next season but not this year. I don't see it getting any better in the near future. Hopefully my crp application will be accepted and I can start to get some habitat for the wildlife going. The farmer to the north tore out 10 acres of old oak, hickory, elm, etc. Terra formed it and now farms it. It was top notch habitat. The carrying capacity diminished as did the ability to hide. It pushed deer on to either mine or the neighbors. They don't pass much if anything and this year they knocked down the only buck green lighted and the other two that were 3.5 or older were also knocked down. One with a bullet and the other with a vehicle. Two of the up an coming 2.5s disappeared by the end of rifle. No idea what happened. This is the 8th year of owning this farm and every year a new 3.5 or older buck has shown by now to winter in my area but nothing so far.
Hardwood11
It is going to be a good fall!
That is an awesome synopsis of your land... thanks for the feedback!
I'd say there is a better than 50% chance in my areas of North MO. There is plenty of hunting pressure for sure but most guys lack trigger control and end up killing the first decent buck that they see. The good news with that is they are done hunting since cross tagging isn't now allowed and there is enough bucks that by default some get into the upper age classes. The bad news is that it's almost pure luck that the bucks with the best potential get old enough to really show it.
Highly farm dependent from my experience owning and leasing a lot of different farms. Proximity to public is a big one. Some less than 50%. Some def north of 85%. I think you guys about spot on with 70-75% is an average.
Hardwood11
It is going to be a good fall!
I am leaning toward 50-70-%, but as you stated it’s been just over a year. Hillrunner is my neighbor and has about the same amount of acres . I think he could give a better account.
Not that many bucks are shot, but it does seem like a few disappear or leave? Similar cover for miles.
There’s a mix of bucks that really move long distances, and a few that have a small core area.
hillrunner
PMA Member
I would agree that 75% is a reasonable guesstimate for survival from year to year. Most of the 4+ bucks that survive seam to show up again the next fall, usually in the exact same areas. 3 year olds are far less predictable. Sometimes they settle down and stay on the farm but often times they relocate to never be seen again.
advantagewhitetail
New Member
Assuming a "normal" year when it comes to neighborhood hunting pressure and no major EHD outbreaks, we assume a survival rate on bucks of at least 4.5 years of age at ~60-70%%. Hunting pressure in our area (SE Iowa & West Central, IL) is "average", which is the biggest factor for getting deer to maturity in our minds.
In MN before cwd on our 218 acres we would usually get around 50% of the bucks we hoped to make it another year survive. Now with cwd we are lucky to get 20%. With the extended seasons. No harvest limits on bucks and now sharpshooters. They have been baiting for the last 2 weeks with corn piles. Not sure when they plan to start killing. It’s amazing any survive.
Be thankful for what you have. I use to have numerous shooters and up and comers to follow from year to year. Find sheds consecutive years etc. Those days are over. I use to only target deer 5 years and older. Now it’s 4 year olds. But that in this point in time might be unrealistic.
Be thankful for what you have. I use to have numerous shooters and up and comers to follow from year to year. Find sheds consecutive years etc. Those days are over. I use to only target deer 5 years and older. Now it’s 4 year olds. But that in this point in time might be unrealistic.
Hardwood11
It is going to be a good fall!
Minnesota is looking at rifles statewide ... call your local conservation guys, MDHA, this is not good for Southern MN.
bigbuckhunter88
PMA Member
This is mind boggling to me. Unless they shoot literally every deer that ever visits the corn pile they could potentially be helping spread the disease by their own logic.
I saw that in the outdoor news. What a joke. Someone will get shot if this goes through.
It’s ridiculous. Up to 17 days of bait piles that I’m aware of and still no shooters. I’ve seen more deer in these areas in the past 2 weeks than all year. They are congregating more deer in an area with the baiting. I don’t understand the logic. The deer are also gonna share the same bedding areas on south slopes this time of year. They’ll get the first few young and dumb ones. After that the deer catch on pretty quick.