There was a similar thread about gloves a couple weeks ago and saw a guy mention something about if you get a muff...make sure it's wind proof. I believe the heavier gloves that I have are Gortex Manzella's?? Warmest gloves I have ever had. When it's real cold, it seems that if my hands get cold at some point...and then are able to somehow get them back from being freezing and get the functioning back, they won't get cold again. only thing I don't like about the handwarmers in the muff thing is that when you do have to take your hands out to grab your bow, or do whatever, you are bringing your really warm hands into freezing weather and they get cold SO FAST!