I
image1404
Guest
Since when do ethics play a part in something which has been established as a legal hunt means? The speed limit is 70 now, does that mean If I go over 65 it is unethical? Sure helps us out on that law...
Re: I was denied a license in the draw, but what i
I guess I will take the less popular road again and say I don't really see anything wrong with the party hunting if it is done in a sane and ethical mannor. Any party will have some hunters that are either young or old or inexperienced, who every one tries to help harvest their deer. If they can't it gives someone else in the party the chance to do it for them so that their tag does not go to waste. Most of these people don't really care about big bucks they just want a deer to eat and fill the tag they paid for. Just think how many does would walk by the trophy hunters totally unharmed and possibly add to our current "problem" without the party rules. I know a lot of people don't understand these rules, but the person with the tag must be able to tag the deer within 15 minutes or before the deer is moved at all. Also they must be with the deer while it is being transported until the deer is processed for consumption. So Ghost's guy is in big trouble for hauling a deer with someone else's tag on it. No matter what rules or laws we have a certain element will figure ways to bend them and still consider themselves legal,or just break the laws. We can't stop greed and if a NR or anyone else wants a set of horns bad enough they will find a way up to and including poaching. When party hunting was started it was meant to give everyone a chance to take a deer home, now it has evolved into a doe management tool and I think we still need all of those. So I don't think these laws are stupid, but necessary.
I guess I will take the less popular road again and say I don't really see anything wrong with the party hunting if it is done in a sane and ethical mannor. Any party will have some hunters that are either young or old or inexperienced, who every one tries to help harvest their deer. If they can't it gives someone else in the party the chance to do it for them so that their tag does not go to waste. Most of these people don't really care about big bucks they just want a deer to eat and fill the tag they paid for. Just think how many does would walk by the trophy hunters totally unharmed and possibly add to our current "problem" without the party rules. I know a lot of people don't understand these rules, but the person with the tag must be able to tag the deer within 15 minutes or before the deer is moved at all. Also they must be with the deer while it is being transported until the deer is processed for consumption. So Ghost's guy is in big trouble for hauling a deer with someone else's tag on it. No matter what rules or laws we have a certain element will figure ways to bend them and still consider themselves legal,or just break the laws. We can't stop greed and if a NR or anyone else wants a set of horns bad enough they will find a way up to and including poaching. When party hunting was started it was meant to give everyone a chance to take a deer home, now it has evolved into a doe management tool and I think we still need all of those. So I don't think these laws are stupid, but necessary.
C
charter
Guest
Poor "Earflap" is only attempting to find out the rules of the game and the first response he receives calls into question his ethics.
The definition of ethics is to philosophicaly deal with what is good or bad...right or wrong.
Earflap was asking, based on Iowa DNR rules, what was right or wrong.
It's not as if any DNR rule book is so clear and concise that a question or two might be inappropriate...
If the rules allow one to party hunt and to kill a deer and tag it with someone elses tag, how could it be unethical? After all the tag could only be used once, the non-resident would have still spent significant dollars for the privilage to hunt in Iowa....
It would seem the deer herd is protected, the local economy is fed...and we have a happy hunter...
I'd say he's very ethical in asking.
The definition of ethics is to philosophicaly deal with what is good or bad...right or wrong.
Earflap was asking, based on Iowa DNR rules, what was right or wrong.
It's not as if any DNR rule book is so clear and concise that a question or two might be inappropriate...
If the rules allow one to party hunt and to kill a deer and tag it with someone elses tag, how could it be unethical? After all the tag could only be used once, the non-resident would have still spent significant dollars for the privilage to hunt in Iowa....
It would seem the deer herd is protected, the local economy is fed...and we have a happy hunter...
I'd say he's very ethical in asking.
Shredder
Life Member
Re: I was denied a license in the draw, but what i
Welocome to the site Evart.....we are not saying that his asking is unethical or are we questioning his ethics,,,we are stating the rules in which he can take a deer under this manner. Sure it is legal but he needs to keep in mind that in taking a buck under the current rules of party hunting, he needs to make sure it is done in an ethical way. I cannot speak for everyone on the site but my personal opinion on the matter is that residents should be able to participate in the party hunting..in fact I encourage it to eliminate some of the does but the system is abused by NR looking to shoot a buck when all they buy is an antlerless tag and all they want to do is come to IA to hunt bucks. By the way the law reads, that is legal I guess but IMO, NR hunters should have to fill the tag that they draw and only that tag. How is that fair to the NR that are applying for a bow tag? The law of party hunting may be viewed by many of us as a joke but in all honesty, it is one of the keys to deer management theat keeps our deer population in check...I just think it should be a resident only priveledge.
Welocome to the site Evart.....we are not saying that his asking is unethical or are we questioning his ethics,,,we are stating the rules in which he can take a deer under this manner. Sure it is legal but he needs to keep in mind that in taking a buck under the current rules of party hunting, he needs to make sure it is done in an ethical way. I cannot speak for everyone on the site but my personal opinion on the matter is that residents should be able to participate in the party hunting..in fact I encourage it to eliminate some of the does but the system is abused by NR looking to shoot a buck when all they buy is an antlerless tag and all they want to do is come to IA to hunt bucks. By the way the law reads, that is legal I guess but IMO, NR hunters should have to fill the tag that they draw and only that tag. How is that fair to the NR that are applying for a bow tag? The law of party hunting may be viewed by many of us as a joke but in all honesty, it is one of the keys to deer management theat keeps our deer population in check...I just think it should be a resident only priveledge.
C
charter
Guest
Re: I was denied a license in the draw, but what i
Shredder, thanks for the reply and I understand your point. I guess my point is back to the original topic of what is legal or not.
I think yours is an indifference to the current law. Thereby your definition of ethical would be based on your opinion of the law.
I can't say I would disagree with your opinion if it were my State...I'd like the "home State" advantage to. That said I've witnessed resident hunters in Iowa streching to new heights the definition of party hunting.
I've been a NR hunter in your beautiful State for a number of years...those that I was lucky enough to draw a tag. I've paid the high cost of Iowa's license application, have always complied with the laws and have enjoyed making life long friends in Iowa.
I only hope that NR's won't be ruled into extinction or charged even more.
BTW, you are welcome to come to my home State of Michigan, buy a buck license on opening day (no draw) and pay less than a 1/3rd of what it costs in Iowa.
We like to hunt in Iowa because we enjoy the hunt, the opportunity and....I think we all just want to hunt more...who can blame us!
Shredder, thanks for the reply and I understand your point. I guess my point is back to the original topic of what is legal or not.
I think yours is an indifference to the current law. Thereby your definition of ethical would be based on your opinion of the law.
I can't say I would disagree with your opinion if it were my State...I'd like the "home State" advantage to. That said I've witnessed resident hunters in Iowa streching to new heights the definition of party hunting.
I've been a NR hunter in your beautiful State for a number of years...those that I was lucky enough to draw a tag. I've paid the high cost of Iowa's license application, have always complied with the laws and have enjoyed making life long friends in Iowa.
I only hope that NR's won't be ruled into extinction or charged even more.
BTW, you are welcome to come to my home State of Michigan, buy a buck license on opening day (no draw) and pay less than a 1/3rd of what it costs in Iowa.
We like to hunt in Iowa because we enjoy the hunt, the opportunity and....I think we all just want to hunt more...who can blame us!
Re: I was denied a license in the draw, but what i
To the new NR's on this particular topic, I am a NR and have been on this site for awhile. I have had some good discussions and ruffled feathers at times, that said, it's a great site with good people. FYI, this is, primarily, a bow hunters site focusing on Iowa monsters. I can see both sides but the resident hard core hunters understand how the game is played. By the DNR rules a NR can party hunt, but everyone knows that most NR's don't "party hunt". They are hunting in their tree, or with their group, with a resident anysex tag in their back pocket, and owner of the tag five miles away. If the MI crew is truly party hunting, fine, but if not, and probably not, then ethics come into play.
To the new NR's on this particular topic, I am a NR and have been on this site for awhile. I have had some good discussions and ruffled feathers at times, that said, it's a great site with good people. FYI, this is, primarily, a bow hunters site focusing on Iowa monsters. I can see both sides but the resident hard core hunters understand how the game is played. By the DNR rules a NR can party hunt, but everyone knows that most NR's don't "party hunt". They are hunting in their tree, or with their group, with a resident anysex tag in their back pocket, and owner of the tag five miles away. If the MI crew is truly party hunting, fine, but if not, and probably not, then ethics come into play.
ironwood
Active Member
Earflap, in answer to your original question, yes you can transport that deer. I would have said you didn't even need written permission from the tag holder. I don't think anybody meant to highjack your Post but it kind of went that way. It is just one of several hot issues surrounding deer management regulations in our state. What ever you do don't take it personally. NR hunters make up a significant number of Iowawhitetails members and always will be welcome here.
I agree with 150....if it's legal then it shouldn't be considered unethical. Once the tag is used it can't (shouldn't) be reused. A tagged deer is a tagged deer res. or NR. As long as the laws are followed I would consider it all good.
For the record I only bow hunt when I visit every other season. Thus my post is not a defense of the gun/party hunter, yet a defense of someone doing something perfectly legal yet still getting lambasted for it do to varying opinions.
For the record I only bow hunt when I visit every other season. Thus my post is not a defense of the gun/party hunter, yet a defense of someone doing something perfectly legal yet still getting lambasted for it do to varying opinions.
So, just because something is legal means it's ethical?
WOW.
Let's put that in perspective. You go to a foreign country for vacation, drugs and prostitution are legal. Does that mean it's party time?
Sorry, but if a guy draws a doe tag because NR allocation doesn't allow him a buck tag, I think ethics dictates he should shoot a doe. That's my opinion, your welcome to have yours.
Let's put that in perspective. You go to a foreign country for vacation, drugs and prostitution are legal. Does that mean it's party time?
Sorry, but if a guy draws a doe tag because NR allocation doesn't allow him a buck tag, I think ethics dictates he should shoot a doe. That's my opinion, your welcome to have yours.
CamoMan
New Member
Gang, I think sometimes we (hunters) get so protective of the Iowa deer herd and against goofy legislation that we lose site of the big picture. I do think that we need a reasonable limit on non-resident tags - both buck and doe. I love the NR people on this site, and they represent some of those who travel to Iowa to hunt our quality deer. Limits are important, because if they are removed, then the guides and leasing will increase to very high levels like we have seen in nearby states. That ties up huge chunks of land from controlled hunting, and greatly adds to the doe problem which we are fighting right now.
However, even though you are passionate about our Iowa hunting, I think many of you need to be more careful about jumping on topics such as party hunting, and all it's 'evils'. Personally, I don't do it, and for that matter, I don't shotgun hunt. However, many of my friends do, and they have done it for years. The fact that a non-resident may come to Iowa and take a buck while legally party hunting with family or friends does NOT make him or her an unethical hunter . . as long as they hunt within the state defined rules. Very possiblly, that doe tag will be filled by a resident in the group - is that so bad ? Again, NR doe tags need to be limited, but if they are, then this will not add to Iowa's current struggles.
Please be careful about jumping down people's throats because they want to hunt Iowa - legally. There will always be people who abuse the system, but the majority of them are residents. Shift some of your energy to contacting legislators - regularly. Right now, naive, and even dumb rulemakers are our greatest threat to quality deer hunting in Iowa.
However, even though you are passionate about our Iowa hunting, I think many of you need to be more careful about jumping on topics such as party hunting, and all it's 'evils'. Personally, I don't do it, and for that matter, I don't shotgun hunt. However, many of my friends do, and they have done it for years. The fact that a non-resident may come to Iowa and take a buck while legally party hunting with family or friends does NOT make him or her an unethical hunter . . as long as they hunt within the state defined rules. Very possiblly, that doe tag will be filled by a resident in the group - is that so bad ? Again, NR doe tags need to be limited, but if they are, then this will not add to Iowa's current struggles.
Please be careful about jumping down people's throats because they want to hunt Iowa - legally. There will always be people who abuse the system, but the majority of them are residents. Shift some of your energy to contacting legislators - regularly. Right now, naive, and even dumb rulemakers are our greatest threat to quality deer hunting in Iowa.
tracker
Life Member
I believe this is something that happens with residents also. A while ago there was some conversation about residents that hunted early season muzzleloader, then also hunted one of the shotgun seasons?? When you purchase an early season muzzleloader tag in Iowa, you are supposedly forfeiting any other possiblity to obtain a gun tag to hunt. No more chances to shoot deer with a gun unless you are a landowner. Most people that hunt in early muzzle also hunt bow season in order to get their second any sex tag. Then along came the antlerless only tags. I was thinking that anyone could purchase these tags for any season, shotgun included, get involoved with a party, and have the opportunity for a third buck. This is where people question the ethical part of the use. If the tag was created for the specific intent of harvesting does only, then why should the person who's name is printed on the tag be eligable to harvest a male deer on a population control tag? This defeats the purpose for the issue of the tag. I could be wrong about the example of someone hunting early season muzzleloader then obtaining the antlerless shotgun tag, and if I am incorrect, someone correct me. But if this is correct, then it's not only a NR problem.
It seems to me that the DNR, during this crunch period of anterless harvesting, would tighten the belts to insure maximum numbers of does to be harvested with the alloted amount of tags issued/sold.
It seems to me that the DNR, during this crunch period of anterless harvesting, would tighten the belts to insure maximum numbers of does to be harvested with the alloted amount of tags issued/sold.
baggin_bucks
Active Member
excellent post tracker
I think you are exactly right.
cornfield
New Member
Party hunting is allowed for groups that hunt together and fill each others tags. Doe tags are issued soley as a DOE population control in a particular county. When they are not used for that purpose, they serve no purpose.
For me, party hunting and these so called doe tags create a problem together. A group party hunting with anysex tags is a one thing. A res. or n.r. getting a doe tag and then arranging a anysex tag to be used ahead of time does not serve the purpose of what the doe tags were intended for.
To me, a simple solution would be to only allow hunters possessing anysex tags for the same gun season to party hunt. All doe only license holders must shoot does only....like the license says.
For me, party hunting and these so called doe tags create a problem together. A group party hunting with anysex tags is a one thing. A res. or n.r. getting a doe tag and then arranging a anysex tag to be used ahead of time does not serve the purpose of what the doe tags were intended for.
To me, a simple solution would be to only allow hunters possessing anysex tags for the same gun season to party hunt. All doe only license holders must shoot does only....like the license says.
River Bttm Boy,
Have you ever broken the speed limit? So all speeders should be treated as rapist and murderers? I think your analogy is a little off base. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it unethical. Alot of hunters wouldn't even entertain the thought of hunting over a bait pile yet hunting over a freshly cut corn field is a different story.
I don't like the idea of a paid whitetail hunt. Raised hunting whitetails from the age of 7 I feel confident enough to go on a "do it yourself hunt" and expect success. As for elk hunting, I've never done it but want to some day. I won't even hesitate to pay for an elk hunt because I have no idea what it's all about. Hmmmm....I guess I'm an ethical deer hunter but an unethical elk hunter to be.
Have you ever broken the speed limit? So all speeders should be treated as rapist and murderers? I think your analogy is a little off base. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it unethical. Alot of hunters wouldn't even entertain the thought of hunting over a bait pile yet hunting over a freshly cut corn field is a different story.
I don't like the idea of a paid whitetail hunt. Raised hunting whitetails from the age of 7 I feel confident enough to go on a "do it yourself hunt" and expect success. As for elk hunting, I've never done it but want to some day. I won't even hesitate to pay for an elk hunt because I have no idea what it's all about. Hmmmm....I guess I'm an ethical deer hunter but an unethical elk hunter to be.
Shredder
Life Member
Re: I was denied a license in the draw, but what i
Alright fellas, read this post I linked below before adding to this one. The question earflap was looking for has been answered numerous times, now this post is heading toward destruction.
Posting Guidelines
Alright fellas, read this post I linked below before adding to this one. The question earflap was looking for has been answered numerous times, now this post is heading toward destruction.
Posting Guidelines