Impacts on rack growth...

[Sligh1]

I was reading some articles on guys “growing 300 bushel corn”. Almost all the articles go like this...
“70 bushels +/- based on weather “.
“40 bushels +/- based on hybrid selection”.
“50 bushels +/- based on large p&k basis (& micros) combined with premium timed & ideal rates N inputs”
“15 +/- on tillage (compaction issues, no till, etc) “
Etc, etc etc.

Was thinking how that translated to deer. Most we can’t control. Some we can. Was talking to a few veterinarians and some high fence deer breeders. Some interesting ones that stood out.....
“High tick infestation can decrease a deers rack by 15%”. So- a 200” potential buck could be 170”.

What’s u all’s biggest factors & any ideas u implement around them?? Most is Mother Nature- no doubt.
WEATHER!!!! Drought, harsh winter, late spring, etc. or the OPPOSITE: mild winter, early spring, great rainfall.... IMO- can easily swing a deer’s potential 10-20% with extremes on weather.

NUTRITION.... overlooked. U go to rough pasture areas with very little nutrient rich tillable- IMO- the bucks will be lower for hitting potential. Rich farm bottoms- higher. It may appear to be opposite BECAUSE.... the rough areas hold more timber sometimes and harder to hunt so deer get older. Which age is clearly biggest factor. & Rich farm land has less cover and up & comers are gunned down early. But- all in all - high fertility ground IMO has 10-25% impact on deers potential.

AGE: clearly trumps all & the biggest factor on a million levels.

Social stress.... too many deer..... IMO when it’s “bad” 5-20% off deers potential. Seen many areas where too many deer and “bucks max at 130-170”” where there’s tons of mature bucks. Large Pockets of no hunting for example. See areas with LOW deer numbers pop out mega freak giants on other side.

FOOD: with nutrition above.... year round browse, grain, greens, high protein, carbs with low temps, etc. where deer have all they need for potential... hard to say but substantial.

lot more. Thinking out loud. Kinda like “300 bushel corn” & all the factors that go into it. For deer- some we can control- some we can’t. IMO- fun to do the work on the things a guy can control. Impacts of other things? Thoughts?

 

[Obsessed]

Genetics.

 

[Hardwood11]

Seems to be something to the deep rich river bottom soil. With a mix of great habitat, so age and long term growth can factor in. High quality food. Genetics are also very important.

 

[breckhawk]

I have seen great results coming from silicone.

 

[Muskrat24]

The part I struggle with and as I type it must be genetics but last year in the areas I hunt I would say antler growth was down but harvested a buck that BLEW up. If everything adds up he went from 3 to 4 and was an outlier . So if that is the case why did he make a jump and very few others did in the same environment. Same access to food. Same winter , spring and summer.....?

 

[Jbohn]

Skip, I think having food FEB, March before green up is a Key , Once green up I feel they have more than they can eat during this time period for rack growth . Minerals play apart in states you can uses them as far a maximizing potential . I do believe stress is a factor , social pressure of a heard. . Moisture plays a part 100% during antler growing season . I think getting a deer to Magic age of 6.6/7.5 is a issue and hard to do. Specially on small acres where you don't have as much control. Even though I think you need 1200-1500 acres to influence a heard unless all land owners are working together in a co-op so to speak .

Antler Growth !

1. Age Structure
2. Late winter food , before spring green up
3. No Drought , Moisture needed I think this is a big factor
4. Social Stress , Even though I think spring green up and summer lots of food , deer are not a packed together with huge ag fields


I am sure I can be educated , never thought about a Tick affecting Antler growth ...

 

[Daver]

Skip, I think having food FEB, March before green up is a Key , Once green up I feel they have more than they can eat during this time period for rack growth . Minerals play apart in states you can uses them as far a maximizing potential . I do believe stress is a factor , social pressure of a heard. . Moisture plays a part 100% during antler growing season . I think getting a deer to Magic age of 6.6/7.5 is a issue and hard to do. Specially on small acres where you don't have as much control. Even though I think you need 1200-1500 acres to influence a heard unless all land owners are working together in a co-op so to speak .

Antler Growth !

1. Age Structure
2. Late winter food , before spring green up
3. No Drought , Moisture needed I think this is a big factor
4. Social Stress , Even though I think spring green up and summer lots of food , deer are not a packed together with huge ag fields


I am sure I can be educated , never thought about a Tick affecting Antler growth ...

My unscientific opinion would be similar, but a little different. I definitely agree with your point #2 Late winter food being a key. My "Growing the biggest antlers" list, in order of importance...

1. Genetics.
2. Age structure.
3. Access to good late winter food and/or lack of a tough winter.
4. Lack of stress during the antler growing season - here is where too many ticks can play in. I don't think you will ever realistically get to zero ticks, but you can't have them "fighting" blood suckers 24x7 while they are trying to put on bone. I would include the "social stress" factor in this too.
5. Drought, although it is another form of stress during growing season that can limit antler growth IMO.

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

Mentioned above but less deer= bigger deer. I have a feeling there are going to be a few monsters shot this year out of EHD areas from last year.

 

[Nrharris]

I'm in a different area than a lot of you guys. Age is the number one factor here. Timbers are few and far between. Genetics are good and tons of food. Problem is way too many bucks get shot as 1-1/2 to 2-1/2 year old bucks. Big shotgun groups are the norm here and a lot of them target anything with antlers. Does seem to be getting better all the time though. Sad, but I have a lot better shot at growing 300 bushel corn than shooting a 200 inch buck. Haha

 

[bkcrrtnps]

I wonder how deer would do on the protein tubs we use for cattle and sheep to supplement


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sligh1]

Mineral helps immensely IMO. When u take soil samples from around the state- pretty wild how many are depleted of vast key nutrients that impact overall health, racks, etc. Now we have the CWD craze so that’s gonna be push back for some.

Yes- I know genetics are huge & key. I forgot to add that. I kinda meant - whatever genetic deck the deer were dealt - what are the impacting factors to get that XYZ genetic potential.

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

Mineral helps immensely IMO. When u take soil samples from around the state- pretty wild how many are depleted of vast key nutrients that impact overall health, racks, etc. Now we have the CWD craze so that’s gonna be push back for some.

Yes- I know genetics are huge & key. I forgot to add that. I kinda meant - whatever genetic deck the deer were dealt - what are the impacting factors to get that XYZ genetic potential.

Agreed. Since I started certain mineral 4 or 5 years ago I swear it makes a difference. Most minerals are junk... way too much salt, etc. Give em' what they need and dag nabbit after a couple of years the deer of the same age class are just bigger, growing trash, etc. Been a pretty interesting experiment.

 

[Nrharris]

Agreed. Since I started certain mineral 4 or 5 years ago I swear it makes a difference. Most minerals are junk... way too much salt, etc. Give em' what they need and dag nabbit after a couple of years the deer of the same age class are just bigger, growing trash, etc. Been a pretty interesting experiment.

Which mineral are you using? Also what time of year do you use it?

 

[Copenhagen Tob]

Agreed. Since I started certain mineral 4 or 5 years ago I swear it makes a difference. Most minerals are junk... way too much salt, etc. Give em' what they need and dag nabbit after a couple of years the deer of the same age class are just bigger, growing trash, etc. Been a pretty interesting experiment.

What do you feel is the most beneficial mineral ? I like the garlic in the real world wildlife , hoping that helps for ehd, I also use Redmond, which is ground trophy rock I'm told

 

[Rous14]

I have seen great results coming from silicone.

Haha!! I laughed pretty good on that one.

 

[Rous14]

Some good/interesting thoughts Skip. Agree with a lot of the thoughts replied, especially the timing of spring green up. Feel like in years where the crops get planted earlier than avg. and green up happens early may be one of the bigger factors. Minerals seem to make logical sense but it’s interesting that there hasn’t been any sort of scientific proof of this (or maybe there has and I just haven’t seen it).

I posted a week ago about the social stress concept and admit that I just can’t get bought in on it. Certainly in areas where the amount of food/habitat/browse/severity of winter etc is limited then sure but most areas of the Midwest don’t fall in to that category in my opinion. If less deer equal more mega giants it poses an interesting question....would you rather have a bunch of 170” deer running around the county your in with “social stress” or just a handful of 190-200”ers because the herd is small?. I know what my answer would be in a heartbeat.

I’ll use the state I’ve hunted in since early 2000’s for an example. In Illinois from the early to mid 2000s through about 2012 we were killing a TON of 170”+ deer and 200” were killed way more often than now. Pike county specifically was as good as any county in the world. AT THE SAME EXACT TIME the total number of deer were at an all time high. The herd was never bigger. Contrast that to today where the herd numbers are down anywhere from 20-60%, the 60% being pike and we aren’t killing a fraction of the big deer we did when herd numbers were peak. So this why when I hear social stress and high deer numbers being floated as negatives I struggle. By what metric was the herd stressed in Illinois when the herd numbers were at an all time high? No one can ever answer that question for me.
Would you guys say Iowa’s numbers/history similar or no? I guess I’ve never heard or done that research.

 

[Obsessed]

I started throwing down oats soaked in anabolic steroids. Bucks are making some MAJOR GAINS year after year.

 

[Rous14]

I started throwing down oats soaked in anabolic steroids. Bucks are making some MAJOR GAINS year after year.

I definitely need to try that haha.

 

[Rous14]

Agreed. Since I started certain mineral 4 or 5 years ago I swear it makes a difference. Most minerals are junk... way too much salt, etc. Give em' what they need and dag nabbit after a couple of years the deer of the same age class are just bigger, growing trash, etc. Been a pretty interesting experiment.

What mineral product do you like to use?

 

[Rous14]

Mineral helps immensely IMO. When u take soil samples from around the state- pretty wild how many are depleted of vast key nutrients that impact overall health, racks, etc. Now we have the CWD craze so that’s gonna be push back for some.

Yes- I know genetics are huge & key. I forgot to add that. I kinda meant - whatever genetic deck the deer were dealt - what are the impacting factors to get that XYZ genetic potential.

Which mineral product do you like the most Skip?