hoosierhunter
Active Member
Btw everyone should be carrying personal umbrellas as the coverage is extremely cheap.
IsThisHeaven?
Active Member
Defense costs are not included in your liability limit. They are considered an expense payment.
hoosierhunter
Active Member
Well in simple terms for everyone who doesn't work in insurance such as us, defense costs are covered.
Your referring the the actual cost being counted against the occurrance limit as opposed to sitting outside of it. That is TBD because on the accord apps it asks that question regarding defense inside or outside the limit.
Btw would EMC be a good guess?
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IsThisHeaven?
Active Member
It is not TBD. If someone files a liability claim against your property (and your property insurance) your insurance company will defend you up to the stated limits of your policy. The cost the insurance company incurs to defend you is not counted against your limit of liability.
hoosierhunter
Active Member
Heaven
We might be talking apples and oranges here and we are using broad terms....
With a commercial liability policy the coverage varies depending on line of coverage and company of coverage, not to mention forms used. It's not as simple as saying that all carriers cover defense outside the limit because its not the case in that world.
On homeowners policies I'd have to ask those guys or default to you if that's your area.
Also note that purchasing a hunting lease liability policy is not a personal policy, its a commercial and I believe the policy I purchased last year from QDMA or Mossy Oak included defense inside the limits. (Yes I actually asked that question)
IsThisHeaven?
Active Member
I don't agree with you on this. Not all lease insurance is commercial. If it is a smaller lease it is probably covered under a personal ranch or farm policy. Larger operations are covered under commercial policies.
But the main point here is that you began by stating defense costs are included liability limits. That is not accurate. I understand it may be in some instances, but many other instances it is not. The point is people should know their own insurance policies and what they cover. And we shouldn't be making blanket statements like defense costs are included in liability limits.
You also mentioned an personal umbrella policies. Defense costs are not included in personal liability limits.
hoosierhunter
Active Member
I meant that lawyer costs are covered, but didn't mean to convey as part of the limit. I can see how it reads the other way though.
hoosierhunter
Active Member
Specific to a hunting only lease, I don't believe a farm or personal policy will extend complete coverage. I'd be interested as to why you feel this would be the case. Take a treestand fall for example....
hoosierhunter
Active Member
Yes but you can also request a policy be purchased and list you(landowner) as a named insured and avoid paying the 25% surcharge that base camp and HLN charge you.
bkcrrtnps
Well-Known Member
Yeah but 25% gets u a network of guys waiting to lease ground.....I know alot on here don't agree with leasing but it is the future whether we like it or not.....most of the farmers that go with a company dont want the hassle of doing it so its worth the 25% for them..
hoosierhunter
Active Member
Great point, plus they ask what you want and tack on their surcharge after that.
IsThisHeaven?
Active Member
I called an underwriter who sells hunting lease insurance. They told me if you're leasing something on the smaller side, that's not terribly expensive (by lease standards), a personal ranch or farm policy will cover the landowner. It would have medical payments and liability/bodily injury coverage. They both would cover a treestand fall.
hoosierhunter
Active Member
The farm policy could cover the landowner, but not the lessee. The hang up would be "business operations" because the landowner is making a profit from the lease. I've heard that with permission liability stays with the hunter but when paying it transfers back the to the landowner.
Obviously, even signed waivers can't protect anyone in the event of a major claim thanks to our wonderful court system but that's a whole different discussion.
It was interesting what those lease policies cover. Some only cover accidents from hunting and exclude atv's while others do not. Note they didn't not disclose until asked!
I paid an extra 100 bucks for the QDMA policy because atv liability was included.
150 Class
Well-Known Member
That's what this whole thread was about when it started. With permission only, the landowner is NOT at fault. This court ruling now says differently.