180class
Well-Known Member
3. "And, no, closing the season would do virtually nothing to help them rebound"
This is such a load of BS! Can someone explain to me how not shooting any birds one year will not help the population next year? Don't give me any of that "a rooster will push a hen out of cover" gargage either. When the birds are bunched up during the winter months, you don't find pockets of just rooster and just hens. They all live/feed together.
This is such a load of BS! Can someone explain to me how not shooting any birds one year will not help the population next year? Don't give me any of that "a rooster will push a hen out of cover" gargage either. When the birds are bunched up during the winter months, you don't find pockets of just rooster and just hens. They all live/feed together.
DWilk
Active Member
One rooster can breed 100 hens. We need much more than a few added roosters surviving for the population to rebound, and I don't think it lies in winter cover as the article states. Winter cover is vital, don't get me wrong, but there are so many other factors pushing the bird population into the crapper.
The concept of thermal cover for pheasants is widely misinterpreted in my opinion. Pheasants need more open habitat (open as in grasslands void of trees), with small winter cover pockets (cedars, etc.). Since the implementation of those earlier CRP contracts in the 80s/90s, most grasslands have continually gotten 'brushier'. Check out all the cedar trees in many of these old bromegrass fields. As our CRP gets brushier, populations of nest predators, coyotes, hawks, etc. has risen as well.
I'm afraid there is a pretty dreary outlook for our pheasants here in Iowa. We got blasted with the worst weather possible these past few years, and the populations will rebound some if we get better weather in the next few, but in my opinion, the dynamics in many of the ecosystems out there are unsuited for pheasants anymore, and that is not going to change without MAJOR changes in habitat and a huge reduction in predators.
A friend of mine brought up a big point the other day as well:
* Is there ANYONE doing a true study to get to the bottom of the pheasant decline, or is it all educated hearsay? Is the DNR really delving into this issue? SOMETHING is doing far more damage to these birds than just bad weather. It is a combination of things obviously, but what are we missing? How about the changes in herbicide usage, and its affects on the birds/insects they eat, etc.? How about the genetically modified crops... are they digested/processed the same as the old corn, etc.?
Some things to ponder ...
shadowpeople
Active Member
One rooster can breed 100 hens. We need much more than a few added roosters surviving for the population to rebound, and I don't think it lies in winter cover as the article states. Winter cover is vital, don't get me wrong, but there are so many other factors pushing the bird population into the crapper.
The concept of thermal cover for pheasants is widely misinterpreted in my opinion. Pheasants need more open habitat (open as in grasslands void of trees), with small winter cover pockets (cedars, etc.). Since the implementation of those earlier CRP contracts in the 80s/90s, most grasslands have continually gotten 'brushier'. Check out all the cedar trees in many of these old bromegrass fields. As our CRP gets brushier, populations of nest predators, coyotes, hawks, etc. has risen as well.
I'm afraid there is a pretty dreary outlook for our pheasants here in Iowa. We got blasted with the worst weather possible these past few years, and the populations will rebound some if we get better weather in the next few, but in my opinion, the dynamics in many of the ecosystems out there are unsuited for pheasants anymore, and that is not going to change without MAJOR changes in habitat and a huge reduction in predators.
A friend of mine brought up a big point the other day as well:
* Is there ANYONE doing a true study to get to the bottom of the pheasant decline, or is it all educated hearsay? Is the DNR really delving into this issue? SOMETHING is doing far more damage to these birds than just bad weather. It is a combination of things obviously, but what are we missing? How about the changes in herbicide usage, and its affects on the birds/insects they eat, etc.? How about the genetically modified crops... are they digested/processed the same as the old corn, etc.?
Some things to ponder ...
Some good points and thoughts to ponder there Dwilk.
I really hope this weather cooperates for the rest of this year and we can be optimistic about the following years numbers. Our property and habitat has not changed hardly at all over the past 10 years and I would suspect we've lost over 70-80% of our birds, maybe more. So I have a hard time believing there is anything with more of an impact than the weather. But I hope there isn't some other underlying cause that has yet to be realized like you mentioned earlier.
THA4
A Few Steps Ahead Of You
Hunters can't kill all the male members of a non-native polygamous bird species, therefore its impossible for hunters to negatively impact the population... studies upon studies have proven this.... so, no closing down the season will have no affect on the current populations in Iowa. The lower numbers of roosters will promote greater chances of population growth. Fact.
While habitat is certainly lacking, the largest problem is the continuing cold and wet springs, which results in poor recruitment.
Habitat and Nesting conditions are the chief factors to our current pheasant populations, NOT hunter participation.
While habitat is certainly lacking, the largest problem is the continuing cold and wet springs, which results in poor recruitment.
Habitat and Nesting conditions are the chief factors to our current pheasant populations, NOT hunter participation.
180class
Well-Known Member
Thomas, I respect what you're saying, but I disagree! Say you put a dozen hens in a pen along with 1 rooster. The "experts" say that one rooster can breed 100 hens, so one rooster alone should not have a problem breeding all 12 hens. I would put money on it that only a couple of those hens get bred by that single rooster. Now if you increase the number of roosters inside the pen, your percentage of hens getting bred, HAS to go up! There is no other way around it. Maybe I'm completely off base here, but this seems pretty simple to me.
shadowpeople
Active Member
Well you are "correct" in the sense that if it does not get shot, that means more birds for next year (+1). But, I don't think that saving a rooster is equal to saving the population. I guess it depends on where you want to draw the line and split hairs.
I know of a couple guys who raise birds for game farms and they have both said that if you have a rooster in the pen, undoubtedly the hens will be bred. The more roosters you have in the pen, the more fighting they do and the more birds die. That was their thoughts on the matter. I don't suspect they would be dying in fights in the wild but maybe? I have no idea. The facts is that one rooster can breed many hens and unless there is a successful hatch and a decent winter, you can expect the population to tank.
teeroy
Life Member
the problem with pheasants in iowa is loss of HABITAT
with high corn prices, and high land prices, there aren't any acres being left in out of production. grass waterways are being plowed up. fencelines are being taken out, so they can squeeze in a few extra rows, brushy waterways are being bulldozed.
all these "great" ideas people are throwing around (closing the season for a year, stocking birds, etc...) will do NOTHING when there is no cover and no food being left behind for birds. PHEASANT SEASON IN IOWA IS DEAD!! and it isn't coming back. the only thing that will bring back birds, is some sort of farm crisis, where CRP is more viable than planting crop.
PERIOD.
with high corn prices, and high land prices, there aren't any acres being left in out of production. grass waterways are being plowed up. fencelines are being taken out, so they can squeeze in a few extra rows, brushy waterways are being bulldozed.
all these "great" ideas people are throwing around (closing the season for a year, stocking birds, etc...) will do NOTHING when there is no cover and no food being left behind for birds. PHEASANT SEASON IN IOWA IS DEAD!! and it isn't coming back. the only thing that will bring back birds, is some sort of farm crisis, where CRP is more viable than planting crop.
PERIOD.
LYON
PMA Member
I agree with you here, but I don't think habitat is EVERYTHING. I think the very sharp decline in the population in the last few years can also be attributed to the extreme weather conditions we have had, both winter and spring. We have had some extremely hard winters and very wet springs and summers that are playing their part in diminishing the population as well. The reason I say that Habitat is not the ONLY factor is that in my immediate area, there have not been a lot of changes to the local farms and habitat areas, yet despite the nonchanges, the pheasant population is still VERY low compared to a few years ago. And, yes we have had very hard winters and wet springs in the past, but not typically two or three of each consecutively like the last few years. Just my opinion.
shadowpeople
Active Member
I really hope this is the truth because I've only been putting more and more food out there the past few years and I'm worried we don't even have enough birds left to get the population back going again. I walked through our CRP/Wetlands a few days after a little snow and did not find a single track where we used to kick out at least a hundred birds nearly every time.
This pheasant situation has got me nervous. Hopefully this winter is not just saving up to really whack us because if it does, I don't think many of the previous years survivors would make it through.
Exactly. Another thing that I have been seeing in the last 5 years is that more farmers going back to fall tillage practices vs no-till practices which leaves vertially no spilled grain exposed for pheasants and wildlife throughout the winter. So as Teeroy pointed out, no cover and no food equals no birds. Add a couple wet springs and heavy snow winters and you have the recipe for drastic population declines. I agree with Teeroy that the population wont be coming back anytime soon without the habitat being replaced in large quantities across the State via CRP programs. THA4 is exactly right in that closing the season will do nothing to increase the population. Closing the season will only guarantee that fewer hunting licenses will be sold and thus less revenue for the DNR. Studies have also shown that once people stop hunting many never return to the sport. So it would not be wise to close the season from a population standpoint, revenue standpoint or hunter participation standpoint.
BuckDownBuckup
New Member
My chickens were like that until i got rid all but one my survival rate and brood hatching percent went up.
Cooter
Active Member
iowaqdm said:
I agree with everything up till once people stop hunting and very few buy a hunting license just to pheasant hunt. Most have stopped hunting pheasants do to numbers. So it would make much difference to close the season ....not that I want it closed.
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turkeyriver
PMA Member
We just had a PF meeting today. Our regional biologist was there and all the topics brought up here were discussed. Habitat is obviously the most important factor. Pheasants rarely starve in bad winters but do die of exposure to wind and snow or ice. Recruitment through successful nesting is next, since pheasants don't have a long lifespan in the best of conditions. Predators take their share, but that is also related to dwindling habitat. If you are a hawk, you sit over the cover where the birds are. Less cover, more concentration of birds, easier hunting. Same with yotes. Same with egg robbers, that's why large blocks of nesting cover produce better nesting than narrow strips of cover. The birds can spread out and odds of finding any one nest lower. PF and the DNR are aware that in many areas, even with good cover, the number of birds available to repopulate is getting dangerously low. Answers to this are few and expensive. stocking birds from game farms has been proven to be non-effective in test after test after test by PF and DNRs everywhere. The only way is trap and release of wild birds from another area and that costs a LOT of money. That's the way it is. Good nesting seasons are about our only hope.
liv4rut85
New Member
One word sums up why there isn't more pheasants around " coyotes" .! I know there are many more predators that feed on eggs, but with the less crp That is around and the increased number coyotes. Which I believe has a lot to do with the number of people that actually harvest a decent amount of yotes is way down. It makes real hard for the birds to hind their nests. The amount of coyotes in my area is ridiculous and the bird numbers way down! I understand there are many other factors, harsh winters, etc. Most of the factors benefit the coyote therefor being a huge problem!
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Hardwood11
It is going to be a good fall!
Cover
Cover is the key, I have switch and cattails on my MN farm, with tree rows of spruce, cedar, plum, chokecherry. Also, some of the new native mix that is recommended by PF...add in a food plot and the birds can survive the winter and then hatch a few broods in the spring.
Right now I have 60-70 birds on my farm which is down from 100
+ in the past three years, and the neighbor, all brome grass and some sparse cover has probably 6 pheasants on his farm.
Positive, no snow on the ground right now, and mild temps, if we have warmer dry conditions during nesting it could rebound in a hurry!
Cover is the key, I have switch and cattails on my MN farm, with tree rows of spruce, cedar, plum, chokecherry. Also, some of the new native mix that is recommended by PF...add in a food plot and the birds can survive the winter and then hatch a few broods in the spring.
Right now I have 60-70 birds on my farm which is down from 100
+ in the past three years, and the neighbor, all brome grass and some sparse cover has probably 6 pheasants on his farm.
Positive, no snow on the ground right now, and mild temps, if we have warmer dry conditions during nesting it could rebound in a hurry!