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L.O.S./Scope/Bullet path Question

bowhuntr311

bowhuntr311

IowaWhitetail Addict
Hey all,

I've thought for years I knew what was right. But every single diagram/show/artical says otherwise.

Im sitting in a remote office right now "monitoring the cable system" (aka Watching TV and Surfing IW on a cable modem) and there is a show on VS talking about steep angle shots.

They just showed a diagram of the bullet path and line of sight. They make it appear that the bullet comes out of the gun barrel and rises above the line of site(1st Zero) and comes back across the LOS (2nd zero).

Bullets dont rise when they come out of the barrel, your scope is angled down compared to the barrel.

AM I INCORRECT, or do "professionals" show this so people dont have to consider the thought that thier scope(LOS) is actually pointed down and they are arcing the bullet?
 
Not sure what you are asking, but bullets do rise when the come out of the barrel. If you want to do a test, shoot a gun at 20 yards, 40 yards 60 yards 80 yards 100 yards and so on and you will see how much your bullet will rise.

Calibers like .223, .22-250, .220 swift, .204, .25-06 shoot "flatter" than most calibers. Calibers such as .30-30, .30-06, .270, have more rise to them than the calibers that I listed above.
 
I have my gun sighted in so that the bullet rises above the scope's line of sight (first zero) then drops back across the LOS at a second zero (somewhere around 170 yards). This means that the gun barrel bore is not parallel to the scopes line of sight. I try to sight in so that the bullet is never 4 inches high of the LOS, then you need to determine how far out you can shoot before you are 4 inches below the LOS, which would be your maximum "point blank range": the distance at which you can shoot holding dead on target.

Your question was????
 
Why do they rise?

Something that is projected flat should be subject to the laws of gravity and should do nothing but fall.
 
If LOS of your scope and your barrel were perfectly PARALLEL you would never be able zero your gun, the best that you would have be would be the distance of from the LOS of scope at the end of the muzzle.

Am I wrong?
 
Bullet drop calculator

Put some generic numbers into this bullet drop calculator.

Maybe this will help. Your central axis of your scope is mounted parrallel to the bore, but you move the reticle inside the scope up and down so that the bullet path changes vertically.

You are correct in saying that if the LOS and barrel bore are parrallel, you'd never be able to zero.
 
Yea I understand how a scope works and zeroing and MOA.

I just am wondering why every diagram in almost everything I have ever seen, tells a person that a bullet rises coming out the muzzle.

My orginal questions was:
Does the bullet rise coming out of the muzzle?
If No:
Why do charts/diagrams in alot of things say it does?

I have always thought; no that it doesnt and JNRBRONC seems to agree with that :), anyone disagree.
 
BH311,

A classic physics example is dropping a slug from the end of the barrel (that is level) at the same time the gun is fired. Both slugs hit the ground at the same time, no matter the velocity at which the gun shoots. The only variable is how far the bullet makes it before hitting the ground.

If we were to sight a gun in so the bullet only meets the LOS once, that distance would be too close to the muzzle of the gun to be practical for hunting purposes. You would really need to guess on how much bullet drop you were getting at 100 yards and hold over. That is where the double zero method of maximum point blank range (trajectory) is the hunters friends.

Then, in the mountains, the holding over/under on uphill/downhill shots is due to the horizontal distance of the shot. Shooting 200 yards uphill might only be a 75 yard shot if a right angle triangle is drawn, with the 200 yard being the hypotenuse.

I need to get to seminar now....
 
Sorry for me being lost?

Are you saying: yes a bullet does rise out of the barrel.

I understand bullet drop and uphill/downhill shots, but your last post has me lost.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bowhuntr311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Are you saying: yes a bullet does rise out of the barrel.
</div></div>

I'm saying that we sight in the rifle so that muzzle of the rifle is raised above horizontal (in respect to the breech of the rifle) so that the bullet leaves the barrel on an upward trajectory (upward from level) to counter the immediate effect of gravity. A bullet can not really rise, it is the bore's axis to the level plane that determines the bullets path; that and gravity.
 
Newton's 2nd Law of Motion. " An object will only accelerate if a net force acts on it".

Acceleration is not only speeding up, it is any change in speed and/or direction. So slowing down or changing directions is also considered acceleration. So, there is no force holding a bullet up once it leaves the end of your barrel, and as soon as it leaves the end of the barrel it will fall just as fast as if you dropped it from your hand. A bullet shot from a gun pointed perfectly parallel to the ground will not rise. The only way a bullet can rise is if the gun is pointed upward at an angle.

So I would say that NO, bullets don't rise; and Yes, your scope and barrel would not be in perfect alignment. If your scope is zeroed in at 200 yds. you are actually aiming above your target and the bullet is dropping when it hits your target at 200 yds.

Hope that made sense.
 
Ok thanks guys. So I was correct in thinking that a bullet does NOT rise. Its amazing how many people believe that the bullet rises, which I have discussed with many. But like my first post stated I was just watching TV and the host said that the bullet rises coming out of the gun. That statement leads people to believe that bullets magically rise then begin to fall.

Thanks.
 
For years, until today, I took for granted that bullets rose after leaving a parallel to the ground barrel. I assumed it was the spin from the rifling that made them rise. Makes me wonder what other stuff I’ve always taken for granted that is wrong.

Guess I will be contemplating all that I know while sitting in a stand in a few minutes. You guys seriously screwed up my world today. The ‘Bonker liked his world the way it was, but noooo, somebody had to use physics to screw with my head. Jerks.

It goes without saying though, it’ll only take a few seconds for me to contemplate all that I know. Wonder what I’ll think about after that?

The ‘Bonker
 
BH311,
I know for a fact that some bullets rise. How do I know that you ask. Because I saw were the impact was and it was higher then my intended target. DUH /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif It must have raised because I sure didn't miss /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif


BTW, the more distance that you have between the LOS and the muzzle, the greater the differance between 1st & 2nd zero. This also causes the largest differance in LOS and the top of the bullets arch. In short it's easier to shoot high in between 1st & 2nd zero if you mount your scope on 'TALL' mounts or even worse those "shoot through" mounts.
 
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