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Land prices / insane!!!

Lucky 13 said:
Hey cottonwood

Here is what I mean. The biggest problem facing wildlife in many midwestern states in a loss of habitat. Look at any aerial photography from any county in Iowa for the last 30 years and you will typically see a huge degredation of habitat. Every year an Army of excavators and dozers are clearing more habitat for farmland. I AM NOT BLAMING THE FARMERS, I understand they have to make a living on tight margins and it is their land to do what they want. But the result is not good for hunting. Also, farmers that still have habitat are realizing more and more that selling hunting leases is very profitable. So although some still allow others to hunt their property for free, it is becoming more and more rare. And don't forget about the urban sprawl.

So, having landowners(REC land) that are hunters helps provide food and habitat that benefits deer, turkey, pheasants, and quail in a large radius outside that property.

Now, are there some that do high fence, are there some who hog large tracks all for themselves, of course. But I believe that most have a net positive impact on the surrounding area when compared to houses and BIG AG. Even better, if you can get a few neighboring, landowning hunters to work together with agreeing on good QDM, the result is a force multiplier for hunting miles around. Just think what happens when neighbors agree to go from "brown and down" to self regulated age restrictions for harvesting bucks and managing doe populations. Educating landowners and hunters is the key to success IMO.

All the arguing about rifle cartidges, crossbows, season dates, party hunting, etc is void when the habitat is permenantly removed. Areas I hunted as a kid in the 80's haven't seen a deer or pheasant in a long time now largely because the timber, fencerows, hedges and waterways are gone.

2 cents
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Well said, and thanks for elaborating. I 100% agree that prioritizing wildlife and habitat, regardless of "who can hunt it", is a huge step over plowing everything under for crops and cattle. Great discussion.
 
If you want land and can afford the payments buy it when the right piece comes along. Comparing ROI to the stock market or other investments is foolish, there is way more to owning land than cash value.

There is so much money being spent on wants not needs right now it’s ridiculous. Look at the value of classic cars and vacation homes. I attribute a lot of this to the baby boom generation, they saved, invested and saw huge appreciation in real estate. The last of them turn 60 this year and they have the money to buy what they want. Some have passed on and left their children money to do the same.


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Back in college, I met a guy who liked to duck hunt. We did a few hunts that IMO sucked, asked him if he ever pheasant hunted. He quickly became a pheasant hunter as at that time, there was a lot of CRP ground that we easily gained permission on. The next year, most of the CRP we had hunted was posted as leased. This was 1983/4. That opened my eyes to land ownership as free hunting access was getting hard even back then.

Took a bit of searching and time, but in 1991, we bought our first farm. Was worth the wait as it was a dream property at a decent price, an estate sale with motivated heirs. Shortly after, an adjacent 80 acres came up and we "bit the bullet" and "over paid" for it, with the thought process being "When will it ever come up for sale again?". We were financially strapped, beans and weenies diet, didn't drive new trucks, ate a lot of fish/game and garden produce. Needless to say, these parcels have greatly appreciated.

So I guess my point here is, if you don't get totally stupid with a purchase, are in it for the long haul, your investment will be rewarded. I view land as a diversification of my stock portfolio. Still looking at potential purchases, but it will have to be at what we feel is a good fit for the portfolio. I won't wait for a "market correction" to buy another parcel. Too much money out there now.
 
JNRBRONC said:
Back in college, I met a guy who liked to duck hunt. We did a few hunts that IMO sucked, asked him if he ever pheasant hunted. He quickly became a pheasant hunter as at that time, there was a lot of CRP ground that we easily gained permission on. The next year, most of the CRP we had hunted was posted as leased. This was 1983/4. That opened my eyes to land ownership as free hunting access was getting hard even back then.

Took a bit of searching and time, but in 1991, we bought our first farm. Was worth the wait as it was a dream property at a decent price, an estate sale with motivated heirs. Shortly after, an adjacent 80 acres came up and we "bit the bullet" and "over paid" for it, with the thought process being "When will it ever come up for sale again?". We were financially strapped, beans and weenies diet, didn't drive new trucks, ate a lot of fish/game and garden produce. Needless to say, these parcels have greatly appreciated.

So I guess my point here is, if you don't get totally stupid with a purchase, are in it for the long haul, your investment will be rewarded. I view land as a diversification of my stock portfolio. Still looking at potential purchases, but it will have to be at what we feel is a good fit for the portfolio. I won't wait for a "market correction" to buy another parcel. Too much money out there now.
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Bronc if you don’t mind could you elaborate on what you’ll view as a “good fit for the portfolio”? Always interested to hear other potential buyers perspective of what they look for and what the piece will look like for you to pull the trigger. Thanks
 
Rous14 said:
Bronc if you don’t mind could you elaborate on what you’ll view as a “good fit for the portfolio”? Always interested to hear other potential buyers perspective of what they look for and what the piece will look like for you to pull the trigger. Thanks
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It's going to be kind of like my deer hunting these days, I'm going to be very picky. It hurts that I'm in the Johnson/Cedar County area. Johnson County basically needs scratched off, as the demand fuels the prices and tons of people wanting acreages. An 80 acre parcel of mature oak timber next to one of the farms I hunt was offered for the sale price of $1M but didn't sell because of easement issues (couldn't get big equipment in there to subdivide it). The 90 I hunt would provide access to it, but the owner isn't interested in paying a premium. This does not fit what I want price-wise ($12,500/acre). There has been periodic logging with marketable trees still on it, but don't care to clear cut it to make it cash flow.

A 160 acre farm close to my home place in Cedar County was sold in 2022. They were asking $8,500/acre for HEL ag ground with 80 of the 160 being cow pasture. Checking the GIS website, it brought $7,600/acre. Little to no timber on it, what was there has now been cleared, even the fence rows. I'm kicking myself for not buying an 80 up the road from that property that was offered to me at $4,500/acre 15 years ago. I had hunted it by permission from the neighbor that owned it, was a good mix of ag on top with timbers in the valleys. I thought that was a little steep at the time and I wasn't in a financial position to buy. Flat black ag dirt up around Tipton in Cedar County is fetching around $16,000/acre or more. So in my eyes, not much for a good fit in Cedar County, either.

I should keep a closer eye on Cedar River flood plain, as that is probably where the deals will be. I don't see it advertised much, probably sells pretty quickly to the rec buyers.
 
JNRBRONC said:
Back in college, I met a guy who liked to duck hunt. We did a few hunts that IMO sucked, asked him if he ever pheasant hunted. He quickly became a pheasant hunter as at that time, there was a lot of CRP ground that we easily gained permission on. The next year, most of the CRP we had hunted was posted as leased. This was 1983/4. That opened my eyes to land ownership as free hunting access was getting hard even back then.

Took a bit of searching and time, but in 1991, we bought our first farm. Was worth the wait as it was a dream property at a decent price, an estate sale with motivated heirs. Shortly after, an adjacent 80 acres came up and we "bit the bullet" and "over paid" for it, with the thought process being "When will it ever come up for sale again?". We were financially strapped, beans and weenies diet, didn't drive new trucks, ate a lot of fish/game and garden produce. Needless to say, these parcels have greatly appreciated.

So I guess my point here is, if you don't get totally stupid with a purchase, are in it for the long haul, your investment will be rewarded. I view land as a diversification of my stock portfolio. Still looking at potential purchases, but it will have to be at what we feel is a good fit for the portfolio. I won't wait for a "market correction" to buy another parcel. Too much money out there now.
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Soil Bank is 83/84 ? CRP started in 1985 if I remember correctly?
 
sure shot said:
What do you think a reasonable percent increase is for say the last 5 years? In other words land bought 5 years ago, would be worth 1.3 times that now, 1.5 times, 2 times?

Those that say buy no matter what, if the seller is charging double what they paid 5 years ago, are you still saying buy?

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From a "fundamentals" standpoint, is southern Iowa land worth what it's selling for? My opinion doesn't really matter because the *market* says southern Iowa land is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. And if people are willing to pay $4,500-$5,500/acre for it right now on average, it doesn't matter what someone paid for it 5 years ago, it only matters what someone is willing to pay for it right now. I would never advise someone to pay an amount for land that would put them in financial difficulty. But I would also suggest that a focus on what someone paid for it 5 years ago might be a good way to convince yourself never to actually buy any land.
 
I remember when stocks went crazy and everyone was saying how great the market was .. then the 2008-09 Crash happened and it went backwards 30-40%!

I don’t think it will be that bad, but 10-15-% … just a matter of time !
 
CottonwoodCanyon said:
I just don't see a correction coming in Iowa. Still a lot of cash, a lot of demand, and little inventory on the market, 2020 purchase prices are holding even on marginal properties.
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Southern Iowa land market is still way above 2020 prices, even with the market cooling off. Lack of inventory is key. I think there would be a correction to some degree if there was more inventory. As you say, still plenty of cash buyers, but not a lot of financed buyers in the market right now for discretionary hunting land purchase. I talked to a couple different lenders last week that do a lot of lending for land and they both said that loan applications for hunting land have been very slow for a while now. Not much reaching and paying way above market prices like in late 2021 and 2022.
 
I'd like to say I've seen the land market correct but it hasn't, recent land sale 40 acres brought 16,500/acre 86CSR.
Same sale lesser quality 60 acres. 71 CSR 14,500. Land market is holding steady.
 
Trapshooter1 said:
I'd like to say I've seen the land market correct but it hasn't, recent land sale 40 acres brought 16,500/acre 86CSR.
Same sale lesser quality 60 acres. 71 CSR 14,500. Land market is holding steady.
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High quality tillable land is still going very strong. Hunting/Rec land is not. There hasn't been much of a "correction" (yet) in Hunting/Rec land prices, but there isn't much moving because of prices. High Prices + High Interest Rates + Lower ROI + Fewer Buyers = slow.
 
jflournoy said:
High quality tillable land is still going very strong. Hunting/Rec land is not. There hasn't been much of a "correction" (yet) in Hunting/Rec land prices, but there isn't much moving because of prices. High Prices + High Interest Rates + Lower ROI + Fewer Buyers = slow.
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I don’t necessarily agree with this as there are a lot of less desirable rec farms on the market these days for the same high prices as what good farms in good areas command that would sell quickly if they hit the market. What used to cost a premium to be in good managed areas with good neighbor, income, and harvest history years ago became now anything with a couple trees and buck pics people want big money for.
 
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