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Lease Prices?

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What is wrong with a landowner deciding to lease? It is his land, he pays the tax and mortgage.

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Who can argue that, I sure the heck can't Pharmer. But it's pretty tough to stand by and let a cultural activity that's shaped my life and most other lives here..... just circle the crapper. Access to the hunt is how we've made it this far along. The DNR, the hunting retail industry, the overall popularity of our passion was built on access of the general population.


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The other 90% wouldn't think it is worth the money so they throw in the towel. Then their kids don't get exposed to our hunting tradition. The number of hunter's/gun owners decline. Then 20-40 years down the road the anti-gun advocates and anti-hunting groups have more power than the hunting groups and it's GAME-OVER for all of us die hards.

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I think QDM expressed some pretty solid insight.
 
What's more enjoyable than leasing? Having a piece leased out from under you by an outfitter. So - here is the question, do you lease now to protect yourself - or wait until the demand creates a situation that you will be paying twice as much for a lesser property?

You can complain or say what you want. Fact of the matter is that if a guy wants to hunt bad enough, free ground can be found. I often hear some of the locals complain about loosing a farm to "so-and-so" big money hunter. I wonder how many farms they've knocked on in the last year? I know I've knocked on probably 30+!

Some of our own are now leasing and selling farms for money! These are the guys who are going to make the situation worse! They are shooting themselves in the feet and don't even realize it!
 
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Some of our own are now leasing and selling farms for money! These are the guys who are going to make the situation worse! They are shooting themselves in the feet and don't even realize it!



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Rod White's new business is what I'm assuming you're talking about.
 
I also think that this is a cycle though- as more land is leased- $ follows the quality of hunting and pressure from the insurance lobby increases, leases increase, quality decreases to the point the pendulum swings the other way.
I wonder what people would give up and be happy with to continue to hunt? Why does anyone "need" 900-1000 acres to hunt?
If leases were $20/acre that 100 acre patch is worth $2000 to the landowner. So how can the "average" person- not a rich guy hunt? One pack of smokes a day is 75% of that lease, another 2 beers after work on Friday night for a year pretty much gets the rest.
I see people pulling in to the local casino every day that probably have no business being there but that is their choice. Everyone has choices to make. It will be how much it is valued.
 
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I also think that this is a cycle though- as more land is leased- $ follows the quality of hunting and pressure from the insurance lobby increases, leases increase, quality decreases to the point the pendulum swings the other way.

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Brian, I don't agree that it is going to be a cycle.

The best example is our neighbor to the East...
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Everyone has choices to make. It will be how much it is valued.


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I just hope there will be people in the future who know hunting and at least have the knowledge to desire to make those choices. It's not looking like there will be quite so many.
 
I can see both sides of the issue from a personal standpoint. I am truly blessed to have married into a retired farming family. I am also blessed to live on the main farm that is owned by my in-laws. There are 3 parcels in the farm; 360 acres main farm (120 ac. timber), 240 ac. "west farm" that is rented out to another farm operation, and 120 ac. timber plot. Until I came along, there was no hunting on any of the property. My brother, and I started hunting the 120 because of it's isolation from the rest of the farm, and have managed over the last 15 years to harvest some very nice deer and turkey. About 8 years ago ground started selling and leasing in the general area, and my brother, who now lives in Michigan, started getting worried about losing the ground. So he asked me and my father-in-law if he could lease the ground. I didn't care, and my f-i-l agreed, but told my brother that he would not accept more than the taxes in payment ($200).

Well, this past fall, they (my 76 year old f-i-l, and his 86 year old sister) decided to put that ground up for sale. The end of March, the ground sold to a guy from Chicago, who is going to build a house on it for a weekend place. He doesn't hunt, and doesn't really care for it either. So my brother and I are moving our hunting to the 120 acres at my place, that I started hunting a bit last year in anticipation of the other ground selling. He is just sick about losing the ground, although he insists he knew it would sell eventually. I am torn both ways. I didn't want to lose ground that has had 8 P&Y deer taken in 7 years (1 being 182 B&C), but I am very happy for the money my in-laws got for the ground. I never thought they would get what they were asking. So we start over at my place (more convenient and more potential in my opinion, but bro doesn't think so) and see what comes of it. At least he still gets to come home to hunt, now free of charge.
 
I guess the point that I am looking at is the landowner's point of view. Farming is tough enough right now, being very competitive, and there are very, very few farmers that own all of the ground that they farm. If a farmer leases the hunting rights out, that is just extra income for him to help pay taxes, price of machines, price of fuel, price of seed, price of chemical, price of fertilizer, and price of cash rent if he is renting the farm. I know deer hunting is becoming a buisness, but that land owner or farmer has alot more concerns than someone sitting in a tree trying to kill a deer.

Like I said before, I am very spoiled when it comes to public land. Maybe some heat on the DNR to purchase public land to hunt would help. I know it kinda stinks hunting public land, but if its all you've got, it may seem pretty nice.
 
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the ground that they farm. If a farmer leases the hunting rights out, that is just extra income for him to help pay taxes, price of machines, price of fuel, price of seed, price of chemical, price of fertilizer, and price of cash rent if he is renting the farm. I know deer hunting is becoming a buisness, but that land owner or farmer has alot more concerns than someone sitting in a tree trying to kill a deer.


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There's two sides to that story as well. The value of the land increases with the recreational usage also. The trend in return eventually brings higher property taxes. It makes it harder for them to buy land and reduces the profit margin off ground they do buy or lease/rent for farming. Like a friend (farmer) of mine said, "crop prices don't rise with the land values"
 
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The value of the land increases with the recreational usage also.

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Bingo! There's become a real distinction between farm ground and recreational ground. Unfortunately (or fortuanately depending on your view) farm ecomonics impact the value of farm ground, but I don't see grain prices effecting the price per acre of prime timber ground.

We're at the top of the roller coster just gettin' ready to pick up speed. Farmers have to make a living first - they fuel our small town economies and feed our populations.
 
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Bingo! There's become a real distinction between farm ground and recreational ground.

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I can't speak for all regions of this state, but around here there's usually not a distinction. The ground I've watched go in my area usually goes as a unit, timber and tillable together. When that stuff goes high, you'll hear the local farmers not so happy. I've heard it more than a few times.
 
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I guess the point that I am looking at is the landowner's point of view. Farming is tough enough right now, being very competitive, and there are very, very few farmers that own all of the ground that they farm. If a farmer leases the hunting rights out, that is just extra income for him to help pay taxes, price of machines, price of fuel, price of seed, price of chemical, price of fertilizer, and price of cash rent if he is renting the farm. I know deer hunting is becoming a buisness, but that land owner or farmer has alot more concerns than someone sitting in a tree trying to kill a deer.

Like I said before, I am very spoiled when it comes to public land. Maybe some heat on the DNR to purchase public land to hunt would help. I know it kinda stinks hunting public land, but if its all you've got, it may seem pretty nice.

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Let's see $4.00 corn x 200 Bushel = $800.00 per acre. Subtract $200.00 cash rent + $175.00 for seed, fertilizer, fuel and herbicide = $375.00. So $800-$375=$425.00 per acre for your machinery costs and profits. If you farm 2000 acres and 1000 is corn than your income would be $425,000 for your corn acres. Beans would be around $50.00 for seed and herbicide + 200 cash rent = $250.00. If you get 40 Bushel/per acre x $7.50 = $300.00 per acre - $250.00 = $50.00 per acre profit. $50.00 x 1000 acres = $50,000. So $425,000 plus $50,000 = $475,000. If you had $200,000 in machinery costs/repairs you still make $275,000 per year. The landowner gets $200.00 per acre cash rent x 2000 acres = $400,000 - land taxes (2000 acres x $20 per acre = 40,000)= $360,000 . If you own what you farm then add this to your profit $275,000 + $360,000 = $635,000. This doesn't include corn base subsidies or crop insurance, ect. I realize not everyone farms or owns 2000 acres but you can do the math for whatever size farm you want. If you own 40 - 200+ acres of just rough ground (no tillable) and don't hunt or run cattle on it then you should sell it because it's not going to get you a good annual return. Let's say 200 acres rough ground sells for $2000 per acre = $400,000. Take $400,000 x 5% return in a CD = $20,000 annual return. Now let's say you rent that ground to a farmer for pasture for $40 per acre and lease the hunting rights for $10 per acre the return is $10,000 - ($2000 land taxes)= $8000. That's a no brainer! The only worries farmer's/landowner's have with these high prices (land value and crop) are trying to shelter their income/profits from the IRS. I'm not against the farmer or landowner making money but with current prices you'll have a hard time telling me that without leasing the hunting rights they can't pay their bills.
 
Sorry to confuse you. Basically trying to shoot down the argument that farmer's/landowner's are not making any money and thus have to lease hunting rights to pay their bills.
 
$4.00 corn is rare, $2-$2.50 is more common. Figure in drought and wet springs, 175 bushels on good ground would be a better average. 175 x $2 is $350. Figure in paying your own health insurance and retirement. I think most farmers just make an average living
 
my thoughts exactly. Money ruins everything that half the reason the out of state hunters are flocking to Iowa because it is already out of control in their state. We all know the other half.
 
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Sorry to confuse you. Basically trying to shoot down the argument that farmer's/landowner's are not making any money and thus have to lease hunting rights to pay their bills.

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Ok, I'm going to tell you that I am in the Ag business, and I know pretty much every base that you want to try to cover, and you are being very generous on price of corn, and pretty lenient on prices of seed, chem, and fertilizer; and in no why was I trying to imply that farmers don't make money. If they didn't make money, the company I work for couldn't afford to pay the good salary that I make, along with 16 other people, along with the 2 millon dollars worth of machines that we have to do custom work, not to mention facilities and seed treaters and such. Were I work is a business, in which is there to make money, if there is no money being made, we would shut the doors. So where did I say they don't make money? I said "help" not "I have to have the money to get by."

To me, sorry if I make people mad, the landowner should have the decision to do whatever he wants to do, and he shouldn't care who he makes mad in the process. Getting mad about a farmer leasing out the hunting rights is pretty selfish, its his land, he will do as he pleases.
 
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To me, sorry if I make people mad, the landowner should have the decision to do whatever he wants to do, and he shouldn't care who he makes mad in the process. Getting mad about a farmer leasing out the hunting rights is pretty selfish, its his land, he will do as he pleases.

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This is a sad topic really. I have to agree with nannyslayer and others, it certainly isnt the landowners fault. I can see absolutely no reason why a non-hunting landowner wouldnt lease his land, unless there were no hunters willing to lease. Hunters have only themselves to blame when it comes to leasing, after all, they are the ones who created the market, not the farmers.
I dont know a single person who leases deer ground, but then again I dont live in a "good" county. Maybe thats a good thing. I own a small amount of land, but if and when the day comes that leasing is the only way to access other ground here I may very well lease also. I dont have the spare cash, but I'd probably be willing to get an extra job or cut corners to make it possible. The sad thing is I doubt any of my friends would do so, and their days of deer hunting would probably be over. The days of their kids hunting would also be over, and so goes the future.
 
What I really love is when the farmer leases his ground to some guys from out of state that draw a tag every third year, come back and kill one buck each. Then the farmer has enough guts to complain about to many deer. No sympathy here for that i hope the deer eat every kernal of corn and beans on those guys farms and they go belly up. The deer population in my area is way out of line esspecially on the large tracts of leased land around my area. How can the farmers be making money on leasing ground when they are feeding more deer and have lower harvest yields. Or is it all of a sudden since they are getting money from hunters the deer population isnt that bad and the deer are not eating so much crop?
 
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Sorry to confuse you. Basically trying to shoot down the argument that farmer's/landowner's are not making any money and thus have to lease hunting rights to pay their bills.

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Ok, I'm going to tell you that I am in the Ag business, and I know pretty much every base that you want to try to cover, and you are being very generous on price of corn, and pretty lenient on prices of seed, chem, and fertilizer; and in no why was I trying to imply that farmers don't make money. If they didn't make money, the company I work for couldn't afford to pay the good salary that I make, along with 16 other people, along with the 2 millon dollars worth of machines that we have to do custom work, not to mention facilities and seed treaters and such. Were I work is a business, in which is there to make money, if there is no money being made, we would shut the doors. So where did I say they don't make money? I said "help" not "I have to have the money to get by."

To me, sorry if I make people mad, the landowner should have the decision to do whatever he wants to do, and he shouldn't care who he makes mad in the process. Getting mad about a farmer leasing out the hunting rights is pretty selfish, its his land, he will do as he pleases.



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Nannyslayer, I wasn't trying imply that you had said anything about farmers not making money just wanted to point out that farmers have had it pretty good recently and that the near future looks pretty good in general as well. As far as my figures, I was just quoting my costs from last years production (2006) for seed, fertilizer and chemical. My federal crop insurance gaurantee is $4.06 per bushel for this years crop (2007). So I think my figures are pretty close. I think this is getting off topic from the point I wanted to make. I don't blame landowners or get mad at them for leasing. The point is that if we hunters don't go out and lease the land then there is no market/demand for the landowner. Thus no access problem. The problem comes when we (hunters) get greedy and want large tracts of land all to ourselves. This happens because 10% of us are obsessed with monster bucks and hunting them. We are the ones that try to lease/buy the good hunting land. The other 90% of hunters (including the young hunters) just want to shoot a deer and need to have access to land to do so. So what is and will happen in the near future is the 10% will push out the other 90% and our great hunting heritage will be lost.
 
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