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I seem to remeber an old saying about casting the first stone. Scout it would seem to me that being a public employee that you are being subsidized with tax money. Where would you be with a total free market system. I think we would be hard pressed to find a major bussiness that isn't subsidized in many ways. Just look at the airlines, or areospace, or Boeing, or railroads, and on and on.

Iowa1 would you rather have a friend get that money or a village in a third world country. From your comments about the $120,000 combine it is obvious you have not shopped for a combine for 20 years. I don't think he spends that much just to trade every 2 years. Our tax laws almost force him to trade equipment because of deperation and capital gains. There is also a huge trickle down from that sale. The guys that work at John Deer really want him to trade so they can make new equipment so they buy cars and groceries, and magazines or newspapers with your articles so you can trade walleye boats every two years.

Another thing we all should think about is what happens to hunting if we don't have these smaller farmers. On another thread we talked about the problem of fewer acres to hunt and what leasing is doing to us. What will happen to that if we have farming giants similar to Walmart, and what will happen to food prices, and if you think with that kind of power there wouldn't be subsidizies you aren't in my world. Also you could forget about any wildlife habitate because it would be buldozed flat to make more room to grow more effecient crops so you would still loose your hunting.

Let's all try to look before we leap.
 
I'm torn both ways on this. On the one hand, as a small business owner, I'd love to have the kind of support these subsidies offer. But these payments don't go just to the small, family farms. The big corporate operations get the same benefits and they have the economy of scale on their side.

Wisco, you're naive to think that the family farmers constitute much lobbying power. Their numbers are dwindling. It's the giant farm operations who carry the real political clout.

If you want to see habitat and hunting areas disappear, let the small farmers go under and watch the corporate farms come in and rip out the fences, the windbreaks, tile the marshes, and farm it all. The more we can do to benefit the small farmer (1,000 acres or less), the better. It's the big corporate farms who should have to go it on their own. My two cents.

Threebeards
 
First of all I don't think that this is a setting for an argument of this nature. There have been comments from both sides that seem very uneducated and spitefull.

Anyway, I would like to say that having grown up in a family that has a steeped tradition in farming, that it is in my blood. One of the hardest things is to think about is the possibility of it slipping away. The point I want to make is that I see too different kind of farmers these days. The big guys where it is only a business and to become "rich" they need more acres and bigger government checks. They seem to be ruining the image for the rest of us. In my family the tradition is so strong that we would farm regardless of govenment checks even if it meant taking a loss. My dad farms 230 acres and works full time. When I grew up he didn't farm, but spent as much time possible helping his dad. Now that he is renting some family ground and I'm helping him, I don't know what I'd do if we had to stop. I am going to college now because I know, the way farming is today, I couldn't survive unless I took that business mentality. But I do know that it will be a part of my life. Even if it meant quitting hunting which I have come to love over the last four years.

I have come to a realization that a person should be able to choose his profession without having to be judged be others. Who's to say that one job is better than another as long a the person loves what they do and is able to provide for their family.

I do encourage every one to become freinds with a someone who farms just to farm, and I bet 9 times out of 10 he will be one of the greatest guys you've ever met. That's whether he lets you hunt his ground of not.
 
DM -

Thanks for the compliments. You truly are full of them.

Sensitivity is WAY over-rated.

It happens all the time. People lose jobs. They get scare off their butts. Then they pick up the pieces, retrain, and get a new one. In a few years, they are back on their feet and usually better than ever.

People are happiest when they are in control of their own future and responsible for themselves. Challenges force people to use their head and their personal resolve to improve themselves.

Who's to say that failed farms don't result in the people that failed at that redirect their talents to be more productive and successful at something that offers more of a reward?

All this garbage happening in America these days that you have to support someone for their own personal failure just promotes more people to fail by rewarding those that fail!
 
I guess it's all a matter of perspective. Did the government subsidize that project you got the contract on, the school you teach in or that man-made reservoir you fish or that state forest you hunt? How about tax breaks,incentives,grants,loans, etc. for failed (or successful) small and large businesses? The list goes on, and very few are not affected.
My father-in-law farms and my dad is retired from it, but I still have a tough time with it when I see those $$ come out of my paycheck and I wonder if it's all necessary. What a monster we've created. But I wouldn't live anywhere else.
 
Seeing as how the government is going to tax the heck out of us regardless of what we think, I'd much rather see my tax dollars supporting farmers and wildlife conservation programs than providing free housing and meals for deadbeats who do not want to work.

I agree that you should succeed or fail on your own merit, farmers included. But that is not how the system works. Foreign countries heavily subsidize their farmers and dump products into our country at prices that are lower than production costs. Our farmers would go bankrupt trying to compete without any subsidies. And just exactly were do some of you fellows think you will be hunting when the farmer on whose property you hunt goes bankrupt?
 
Farmers control alot of land out there, are hard working and aren't out to suck money out of everyone's paychecks. I can't believe there are some of you out there that are bashing something that helps out farmers. It just escapes my mind why some of you want to post some spiteful comments on this situation. You guys have just dug yourself into a hole in a situation you apparently know nothing about. So if we do what some of you want (get rid of subsides for farmers) that just helps get rid of alot of family farms.....and there goes alot of hunting ground. Some of you need to think before you speak.

Amen to all of those who see the real facts and realize how important farmers are.

Good luck and good hunting!

-GunnerJon
 
I don't blame the farmers one bit. If the government offers it you better take it or it will go somewhere else and your very naive if you think you will get it back if you quit applying for it.

Iowa1, you did bring up something that is interesting. Since you are a "Professional Outdoorsman" do you write off your guns, bows, camo, vehicle, stands and other gear, travel expenses such as food and lodging, tags and paid hunts? If you don't you are an anomaly. Also when you trade bows or guns do you trade every two years or so and do you use a $200 bow, or a $700 or more bow? You probably don't have to worry about it if you are sponsored. If it were me I would use the best equipment possible in order for me to get the job done. These farmers do the same thing without a sponsor, and the equipment they buy cost $500,000 or more in order for them to do enough land to make a living at it. That doesn't even take into account the cost of land, seed, chemicals, etc. and all that goes to feed the deer we shoot! LONG LIVE THE FARMER!!! In other words the farmer is basically sponsored by the government. Or I guess we could say you are on hunting welfare IF you are sponsored at all. Sorry if this does not apply to you but in most cases if you aren't sponsored you go hungry
 
I think many of us addicted to this site have hunting in our blood.

Some people have farming in their blood. Their goal isn't to get rich, they just want to be out there planting crops and working the land.

I heard a joke that helps get the point across.

A farmer hit it big and won the lottery. When asked what he was going to do with all the money he said, "I guess I'll just keep on farming until it's gone."
 
I'm not going to comment on this thread anymore. I'm not from Iowa and maybe I shouldn't have commented. But basically I've just been trying to share what goes on up here in Wisconsin because our state has gone through the transformation of land being closed off. As I mentioned on another topic, this started to occur around 20 years ago. Sure, you can still find a spot to hunt for free, but you're going to have to work your butt off to find it.

When the farmers up in these parts go out of business, they sell out to a realtor. Said realtor then busts up the parcel into 20,40s and 80s and sells it as recreational land to hunters. That actually ends up allowing MORE hunters on the same land. Not only that, but this land is recognized as being valuable for hunting. Leave it to the hunters who invested in hunting land, where it will be preserved as hunting land as long as they own it. Since they aren't making more of it, it becomes more valuable every day. Someday, open land good for hunting just might be some of the most valuable hunting land around.

The only other ways farmers go out of business up here is when their land is swallowed up by urban sprawl. If you ask me, this is worst thing that can happen for hunters because that land gets developed and is lost to hunting forever. Not sure if this will ever happen in Iowa, which is more remote and has less urban areas than Wisconsin. However, the farmers that sell out to urban sprawl sometimes end up extremely rich.
 
Tough Topic.

Here is an Idea!

How about if every landowner who received subsidies from the public's tax dollars had to open their land up to the Public for hunting.

I didn't say it was a good idea. But anyone who is actually still reading posts this far down the thread on this biased topic full of opinions needs a good laugh.

IaCraig......
 
I thought this discussion went beyond the sillyness of "where will we hunt" fears, the nestalgia and romance of the family farm, It almost sounds like a pitch to fund a historic site.
I don't think any of the negative views here are from a dislike of farmers. The sustem is badly flawed. After supporting the farmers through these programs for so long stopping them cold turkey is totally out ot the question.
I simply disagree with the concept as a whole. Its counter productive and demoralizing I would imagine. Seeing it as a necessary evil is one thing but accepting it as a good thing is completely another.

bowmaker, it sounds as if you are saying all the city, state and federal workers provide nothing in return for the job they do. Does this include the armed forces? Thats alot of freeloaders! get real.
 
Scout

Don't take any of this as a personal attack. I only meant to point out that in many ways we all are on a form of government subsity. I certainly don't think you are a freeloader because I don't know you, but would your job be there with out some sort of government program? I'm sure you work hard for your government check just like most of the farmers in question do. Government money goes back into our economy to build and subsidize almost everything from the road you drive on to the electricity to run your computer to the clothes you wear and to the food you eat. I just don't think we should bite the hand that feeds us and lets us hunt .
Thanks
 
Now here's an idea. The next time you run across a rural landowner, be sure to mention how much you resent your tax dollars being spent to support the farm subsidies and CRP payments he receives. Tell him that he should sink or swim on his own, no more ag welfare. Now ask him if you and a truck load of your buds can hunt his place this weekend. Think he will let you???
 
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