Mature Buck Numbers Down

[Trapshooter1]

Talk to 2 different Taxidermist in the last couple days. And their seeing significantly less deer brought in. Bow Kill Numbers are down, Shotgun kill Numbers are down. I think the deer Numbers are there, I just think the Mature Deer Numbers are down.
I'm still holding out for a Mature buck.
If it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen, I'll fill my freezer instead.

It could be just in my area, but these taxidermist get deer from all over the state so it's starting to make me wonder.
What's everyone else seeing?

 

[newfarmer]

I’ve heard the same about mature bucks- most of my die hard deer friends had a very sub par year- we never saw a “shooter” on our farm this year- 4.5 is the oldest we saw all fall. The rest were all very young l

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

Two general comments:

1. I think you may be right. Mature buck numbers may be down

2. BAD growing year. So in many cases the deer may have the age, but did grow to be "Big". This is my personal situation this year. I had some deer I intended to target this year, but they didn't grow or went backwards. So decided to let em go another year.

 

[MN Slick]

Two general comments:

1. I think you may be right. Mature buck numbers may be down

2. BAD growing year. So in many cases the deer may have the age, but did grow to be "Big". This is my personal situation this year. I had some deer I intended to target this year, but they didn't grow or went backwards. So decided to let em go another year.

Is point number 2 area specific and do you attribute it to the drought? We had timely rains through July then SQUAT so I don't believe the drought would have affected antler growth in our area. Had some deer grow, some stay about the same, and some regress that seemed to have better potential. In North MO, it seems like fewer of the better genetic bucks survive compared to even 4-5 years ago due to increased pressured.

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

Is point number 2 area specific and do you attribute it to the drought? We had timely rains through July then SQUAT so I don't believe the drought would have affected antler growth in our area. Had some deer grow, some stay about the same, and some regress that seemed to have better potential. In North MO, it seems like fewer of the better genetic bucks survive compared to even 4-5 years ago due to increased pressured.

Def in my area of Iowa. I think its two things... We had a really late spring (2-3 weeks behind) and a 100 year drought. I basically didnt rain after June 1 until September. I think the late spring is a bigger deal that people realize. That is absolutely the WORST time to be a whitetail as they wait for greenup after winter.

 

[Nightvision]

Not saying the numbers aren’t down but many no longer get deer mounted. It’s gotten way too expensive. I am the point where I just do an at home European mount and call it good.

 

[8bitnes]

We saw the opposite this year. Several mature bucks, some harvested and some for next year. Fewer mature does

 

[Nrharris]

When we took dad's buck to the taxidermist, he said just as many deer as normal, but not as big on average.

 

[Sligh1]

Very interesting!!! Taxidermists & meat lockers both seem to be a great place to check in to get “real data”.

The comment about more folks doing euro mounts is one I never thought of either. With the massive inflation & cost of living increases - that would make sense.

Likely regional to some extent. Below Des Moines- I’d for sure say it’s down. IMO, here’s why:
1) drought for sure brutalized some areas and the growing potential like above stated. Agree 100%.
2) EHD hit extremely hard in 2019. Some areas I saw, I’m certain they lost 75% of the deer or worse in some pockets. When u get hit that bad- it’s at least 5 years to fully recover & we just are not there yet. Better but not there.
3) the huge one I’ll repeat forever until it truly changes…. The coyote #’s continue to climb. It’s at a point I really don’t think 95% of folks realize…. Astronomically bad!!!! When hunters leave at dark- carnage begins. There’s so many coyotes, they can hunt like wolf packs. They are devastating everything from fawns in the spring to fully mature animals in the fall/winter. A buck that’s worn down from rut or even a minor injury- prime coyote target. I am 1000000% sure they have done huge damage to all ages of deer. Until folks widely trap & kill them or until they get mange - they are an epidemic for the deer. I also think that there’s going to be counties where the hunters do not buy all the doe tags since many pockets in those counties are down. I believe they are down largely due to coyote #’s. We killed way way over 100 coyotes now off one farm since we started going to war on them since early last fall. This is off of ONE FARM & I’m not exaggerating those #’s at all. We need trappers & shooters out in mass #’s big time!!!

4) last minor side note….. seems to me that hunting pressure for a buck seems to steadily rise each year. I won’t get too far off on a tangent here but this is a “vibe” or a “gut feeling” I kinda sense…. The pressure to kill a buck…, the pressure to post it on instagram/Facebook …. Or the guys that scroll through seeing all these buck pictures on there … “that needs to be me!!!!!” …. That concerns me. I understand folks want to shoot a buck, I get it. To some extent it’s always been like that and always will be. But there’s this magical line I sense where the culture is obsessed with this social media stuff to the point that they are crazed to get a buck & post it. Leading to increased pressure. Shooting younger bucks. Hunting ground that wasn’t hunted in past since it was so marginal. Making some poor choices on legal issues or questionable shots. U name it - I just sense the drive to shoot a buck has a % of the hunters at a point that i personally think is “not healthy”. I’ll leave it at that. .


2022 is bizarre year. I’d call it “off” for big deer a bit. 2022 for the “whole world” that seems upside down!!! I’ll leave that one alone. .
2022 for deer is a low plot point on a graph & IMO- if we avoid ehd & drought- 2023 & beyond looks brighter for sure!!!! I really do think each year will improve in iowa if things naturally rebound, avoid catastrophic stuff & the politicians don’t get through the crazy lunatic regulation changes. Good things ahead!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Nightvision]

Coyotes are just dogs and all dogs are very susceptible to Parvo. It’s a rough disease especially for puppies.

If your dog gets parvo, you could take some of the poop and put it on your land. Parvo can live in the soil for years.

If you could somehow get Parvo going in the coyotes, it would do a number on them.

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

Coyotes are just dogs and all dogs are very susceptible to Parvo. It’s a rough disease especially for puppies.

If your dog gets parvo, you could take some of the poop and put it on your land. Parvo can live in the soil for years.

If you could somehow get Parvo going in the coyotes, it would do a number on them.

Where can I buy it?

 

[jflournoy]

I'm not a long time Iowa resident, only my 2nd year hunting southern Iowa as a resident, so I don't have a long term perspective vs. what it was 5 or 10 years ago. I hunt more public than private, but in some areas I got pictures of more mature (5 yo+) bucks than last year and other areas at least as many as last year. For me the difficulty came during November. I spent over 25 days in the woods between late October and late November, and had a number of cameras out. Daylight mature buck activity was very sporadic. Mature deer moving in the daylight on November 6th at almost every one of my camera spots (I wasn't in the woods that day), but other than that one day, very sporadic. Mature bucks there, just very minimal daylight movement, and most of my cams and stands were in deep woods travel/funnel areas. Lots of little bucks and does, mature bucks just went underground. Did get mature bucks on cams in daylight on the morning of December 1 at 2 spots, one following a couple does and one cruising through fast. I hunted hard the week of Thanksgiving and into the middle of the next week hoping to see some late rut desperate searching by mature bucks, but it just never materialized for the most part, either in person or on camera. I did pass up a couple 4 1/2 year old bucks on public around halloween, and did wonder later on if that was a great idea. But, in the end they're not going to reach 5 1/2 if I shoot them at 4 1/2. Have access to a large chunk of private, but it's mostly crops, and there are cows present all the time. There are some really good bucks, but minimal daylight activity because there's not much cover and because there is a lot more good bedding habitat on the neighboring property. And they don't seem to like the cows. Talked to more than a few buddies who hunt highly managed ground and they didn't see much better than me during November.

 

[Matthewfox_45]

Skip is right, coyotes need to be controlled. Unfortunately, an all too common issue that I run into as a trapper and a coyote hunter is lack of access. I’ve had numerous owners tell me, maybe after deer season. Unfortunately, coyote pelts are worth even less by the end of January, tough sell for me, with gas prices high and fur prices low. One place I used to trap, I called last fall to ask permission, was asked to wait until after deer season….they only hunt 2nd shotgun…I could’ve killed some coyotes in October and November and not “boogered up” the deer.

 

[hillrunner]

Mange is going to take care of a lot of coyotes by me this year. I had Lots of pictures of mangy coyotes this fall

 

[Muskrat24]

Two general comments:

1. I think you may be right. Mature buck numbers may be down

2. BAD growing year. So in many cases the deer may have the age, but did grow to be "Big". This is my personal situation this year. I had some deer I intended to target this year, but they didn't grow or went backwards. So decided to let em go another year.

I think these two points are spot on. I hunt southern Iowa and northern Missouri. Both had enough rainfall but were on the verge of drought. Stress level IMO is a huge factor to antler growth or lack there of. Deer in general did not put on as many inches as they typically do this year. And I feel as Rob mentioned the late spring was bad for all areas and then the drought areas even got hurt more. Antler size is down this year generally speaking. First year in 19 that I did not fill a buck tag. Partly due to being more selective but also fewer high scoring deer. And yes inflation and tighter budgets affect the taxidermist numbers but typically there are enough people killing mature deer that didn’t the previous year to offset the ones that decide not to mount. I think the overall harvest will show steady population but buck harvest and quality will be down. STRANGE rut this year too!!

 

[Muskrat24]

Very interesting!!! Taxidermists & meat lockers both seem to be a great place to check in to get “real data”.

The comment about more folks doing euro mounts is one I never thought of either. With the massive inflation & cost of living increases - that would make sense.

Likely regional to some extent. Below Des Moines- I’d for sure say it’s down. IMO, here’s why:
1) drought for sure brutalized some areas and the growing potential like above stated. Agree 100%.
2) EHD hit extremely hard in 2019. Some areas I saw, I’m certain they lost 75% of the deer or worse in some pockets. When u get hit that bad- it’s at least 5 years to fully recover & we just are not there yet. Better but not there.
3) the huge one I’ll repeat forever until it truly changes…. The coyote #’s continue to climb. It’s at a point I really don’t think 95% of folks realize…. Astronomically bad!!!! When hunters leave at dark- carnage begins. There’s so many coyotes, they can hunt like wolf packs. They are devastating everything from fawns in the spring to fully mature animals in the fall/winter. A buck that’s worn down from rut or even a minor injury- prime coyote target. I am 1000000% sure they have done huge damage to all ages of deer. Until folks widely trap & kill them or until they get mange - they are an epidemic for the deer. I also think that there’s going to be counties where the hunters do not buy all the doe tags since many pockets in those counties are down. I believe they are down largely due to coyote #’s. We killed way way over 100 coyotes now off one farm since we started going to war on them since early last fall. This is off of ONE FARM & I’m not exaggerating those #’s at all. We need trappers & shooters out in mass #’s big time!!!


Skip I agree that coyotes can add stress to the deer herd and the studies have shown that they eat deer, typically fawns, but do take down mature deer on occasion. Bobcats can take down mature deer as well but IMO if you are seeing good numbers of fawn recruitment each year the coyotes are doing minimal damage to the numbers. If the coyotes are as thick as you say in your area I will put a hurt on them, just show me the way!! That would make for some insane predator calling!! Coyotes, while still present, are in control around my areas. I find it interesting that there are areas in Iowa, unless large tracts of landowners in your area do not allow coyote hunting, where callers and hunters let numbers get that thick. Everywhere around me it seems like every person has an ecaller and a thermal!!

And parvovirus is likely present in most areas already, along with mange, it just takes high populations and ideal conditions to work through the high coyote numbers. Just like distemper in coons and EHD in deer.

 

[muddy]

I'm in the "it's too expensive" boat. 400 wasn't bad, but now a quality mount is going to bust you 600+. No thanks, I'll skull cap mine from here on out unless he's 2 hondo

 

[Spysar]

Guys that want coyotes dead, why don't you give the coyote hunter an incentive to kill yotes? If someone kills 10 coyotes off your land, you should allow them a buck (or maybe a week of deer hunting) too. Since 10 coyotes probably kill way more than the one buck??? Guys want it all, coyotes dead, and all the deer for themselves... I'm sure most coyote hunters like to hunt deer too.

 

[madplotter]

Very interesting!!! Taxidermists & meat lockers both seem to be a great place to check in to get “real data”.

The comment about more folks doing euro mounts is one I never thought of either. With the massive inflation & cost of living increases - that would make sense.

Likely regional to some extent. Below Des Moines- I’d for sure say it’s down. IMO, here’s why:
1) drought for sure brutalized some areas and the growing potential like above stated. Agree 100%.
2) EHD hit extremely hard in 2019. Some areas I saw, I’m certain they lost 75% of the deer or worse in some pockets. When u get hit that bad- it’s at least 5 years to fully recover & we just are not there yet. Better but not there.
3) the huge one I’ll repeat forever until it truly changes…. The coyote #’s continue to climb. It’s at a point I really don’t think 95% of folks realize…. Astronomically bad!!!! When hunters leave at dark- carnage begins. There’s so many coyotes, they can hunt like wolf packs. They are devastating everything from fawns in the spring to fully mature animals in the fall/winter. A buck that’s worn down from rut or even a minor injury- prime coyote target. I am 1000000% sure they have done huge damage to all ages of deer. Until folks widely trap & kill them or until they get mange - they are an epidemic for the deer. I also think that there’s going to be counties where the hunters do not buy all the doe tags since many pockets in those counties are down. I believe they are down largely due to coyote #’s. We killed way way over 100 coyotes now off one farm since we started going to war on them since early last fall. This is off of ONE FARM & I’m not exaggerating those #’s at all. We need trappers & shooters out in mass #’s big time!!!

4) last minor side note….. seems to me that hunting pressure for a buck seems to steadily rise each year. I won’t get too far off on a tangent here but this is a “vibe” or a “gut feeling” I kinda sense…. The pressure to kill a buck…, the pressure to post it on instagram/Facebook …. Or the guys that scroll through seeing all these buck pictures on there … “that needs to be me!!!!!” …. That concerns me. I understand folks want to shoot a buck, I get it. To some extent it’s always been like that and always will be. But there’s this magical line I sense where the culture is obsessed with this social media stuff to the point that they are crazed to get a buck & post it. Leading to increased pressure. Shooting younger bucks. Hunting ground that wasn’t hunted in past since it was so marginal. Making some poor choices on legal issues or questionable shots. U name it - I just sense the drive to shoot a buck has a % of the hunters at a point that i personally think is “not healthy”. I’ll leave it at that. .


2022 is bizarre year. I’d call it “off” for big deer a bit. 2022 for the “whole world” that seems upside down!!! I’ll leave that one alone. .
2022 for deer is a low plot point on a graph & IMO- if we avoid ehd & drought- 2023 & beyond looks brighter for sure!!!! I really do think each year will improve in iowa if things naturally rebound, avoid catastrophic stuff & the politicians don’t get through the crazy lunatic regulation changes. Good things ahead!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

To add to your social media discussion Skip, I think everyone has figured out the formula for their own hunting show. Editing is no longer the black magic it used to be with modern tech and YouTube offers an easy format to show off the product. Use social media to promote and now some folks are making some solid supplemental income. Now everyone knows how to make a 130s look 160 class so it's the new normal until the demand from consumers (us) wanes. JMO...

 

[sep0667]

To add to your social media discussion Skip, I think everyone has figured out the formula for their own hunting show. Editing is no longer the black magic it used to be with modern tech and YouTube offers an easy format to show off the product. Use social media to promote and now some folks are making some solid supplemental income. Now everyone knows how to make a 130s look 160 class so it's the new normal until the demand from consumers (us) wanes. JMO...

no doubt on that. There are so many hunting youtube channels and it seems more and more people make them every year, and some really well done. But, to me its oversaturated, I dont watch hardly any of them. They all are just doing the same thing.

I really liked THP, but this fall I quit watching their deer tour videos after about October. Its all the same, pull up to a new public area area and shoot the first 2.5 y/o that presents a shot.