Limb Chicken
Active Member
They are all jak hammers.
WKP - Todd
New Member
I just conducted a pretty in-depth test on the new Piston Point heads. After testing them for ease of opening, accuracy, hard-quartering shots, and durability - I will be switching to them this year.
Also another BIG plus to me - I've talked with the owner of the company and they are HARD-CORE hunters who embrace fair-chase hunting, and will never support anyone or anything high-fence!
Also another BIG plus to me - I've talked with the owner of the company and they are HARD-CORE hunters who embrace fair-chase hunting, and will never support anyone or anything high-fence!
WKP - Todd
New Member
Forgot to mention - I'll be writing a review showing a ton of pics and the results of my test on my field journal very soon!
Limb Chicken
Active Member
I can't believe you are alive after knocking down all those beans to film velvet...
You just going to tell the farmer, must have been a big deer bed... damn things anyway...
Fishbonker
Life Member
I looked at those. Somebody put up a link to their site. I can't remember what it was about them that I didn't feel comfortable with. I think it had some thing to do with the rubber bands and how they came off or maybe it was the KE it would take to get the piston to push the bands off and extend the blades. Don't remember for sure so I better go find the link again. There was just somethin about them that was just not right to me. Gimmicy comes to mind, but I'll have to look at them again.
The 'Bonker
The 'Bonker
jkratz5
Well-Known Member
Shot the Rocket Steelheads last year, great broadhead, no problems with any of the deer I shot, and yes I did have a marginal hit deer that was also recovered less than 200yds. from where he was shot. I switched to Hammerheads this year because of the larger cutting diameter and after watching Muddy inflict damage with them over the past year I was convinced they are deadly.
Kratz
Kratz
Willie
PMA Member
As far as the Rage goes, everytime I've been into Des Moines this summer to pick up a package they are always sold out. I've got a friend that works Archery at Scheel's and had him tell me when the next shipment comes in. Well yesterday was the day and I called in and confirmed the delivery before I drove in to get them. The guy said I better put them behind the counter with your name on them. Now, I realize several more big names are shootin' em this year but I gotta think there's something to them if they're always selling out - otherwise there's gonna be a lot of upset hunters this fall
.
Bring on the does......
Bring on the does......
Central Iowa
Life Member
Check out the videos from Rage on the upper Left side of the page. They show just how much entrance damage they can do compared to others. Rage Videos
Great damage just to finicky for me.
Great damage just to finicky for me.
Bowhunter500
Active Member
[ QUOTE ]
After years of saying I would never go to mechanicals, this year I am going to try some. I never liked the idea of one more moving part on my setup. However, for the life of me, I cannot get my Muzzy 100 3 blades to fly the same as my fieldtip. I have done everything from having the bow paper tuned to weighing my broadheads vs. field tips to ensure apples to apples weight. It seems as though the fixed broadheads are always planing.
That was the long way to this question- guys who shoot mechanicals...how hard are these things to remove from a target when practicing? I've never heard anyone complain about it, but it would seem like they would be more difficult. I like to shoot my broadheads a lot to make sure they are dead on. Is this not an option with mechanicals?
[/ QUOTE ]
I cannot get my muzzy 3 blades to fly like my field points either.... Went to the bowshop and shot muzzy 4 blades and they fly exactly like my field points... well... they drop a bit more.. but thats an easy fix!
After years of saying I would never go to mechanicals, this year I am going to try some. I never liked the idea of one more moving part on my setup. However, for the life of me, I cannot get my Muzzy 100 3 blades to fly the same as my fieldtip. I have done everything from having the bow paper tuned to weighing my broadheads vs. field tips to ensure apples to apples weight. It seems as though the fixed broadheads are always planing.
That was the long way to this question- guys who shoot mechanicals...how hard are these things to remove from a target when practicing? I've never heard anyone complain about it, but it would seem like they would be more difficult. I like to shoot my broadheads a lot to make sure they are dead on. Is this not an option with mechanicals?
[/ QUOTE ]
I cannot get my muzzy 3 blades to fly like my field points either.... Went to the bowshop and shot muzzy 4 blades and they fly exactly like my field points... well... they drop a bit more.. but thats an easy fix!
WKP - Todd
New Member
I shot them through a ripe catalope and upon entry they opened from .55" to.75", and completely opened to the 1.5" cut by the end of the catalope. It was very soft, I actually have pictures of EVERYTHING, just give me a week or so to post them. The jackhammer wouldn't have opened at-all by the exit. From what I can tell, and from comparitive tests I've conducted over the years they open FAR easier than any other mechanical I've ever shot. I'm sure the rages would do the same thing, but I personally require a hard and solid tip on my heads, not a fan of the C.O.C. tips.... I also conducted HARD quartering shot tests using covered plywood to duplicate a direct rib shot on a whitetail, and had ZERO deflection issues. These heads will kill whitetails all day long, provided the shooter is doing his part!
Fishbonker
Life Member
[ QUOTE ]
I shot them through a ripe catalope and upon entry they opened from .55" to.75", and completely opened to the 1.5" cut by the end of the catalope. It was very soft, I actually have pictures of EVERYTHING, just give me a week or so to post them. The jackhammer wouldn't have opened at-all by the exit. From what I can tell, and from comparitive tests I've conducted over the years they open FAR easier than any other mechanical I've ever shot. I'm sure the rages would do the same thing, but I personally require a hard and solid tip on my heads, not a fan of the C.O.C. tips.... I also conducted HARD quartering shot tests using covered plywood to duplicate a direct rib shot on a whitetail, and had ZERO deflection issues. These heads will kill whitetails all day long, provided the shooter is doing his part!
[/ QUOTE ]
I'll keep that in mind next time I'm tryin to kill me a catalope. Damn dangerous critters. Here is a picture of a killer catalope that has just shed her antlers:
If any of you hunters out there are brave enough to hunt this beast I can act as your guide, but I'm not responsible for any injuries you may suffer while hunting these dangerous animals.
As far as shooting a ripe, or even green, cantaloupe; is there any correlation between deer, or any animal tissue for that matter, and a ripe, or even green cantaloupe?
And about the covered plywood, was it covered in cantaloupe juice? What is the correlation between a given thickness of plywood and a deer, or any animal rib? Remember a rib is actually very flexible and plywood isn't, meaning the rib will actually bend in before anything goes through it. Now I don't have as much experience with bow hunting as the rest of you guys, but if you stick a finger in either the entrance or exit wound can you feel cut rib? Again, I'll admit to my lack of experience with game animals but I'd have to think a rib hit with an arrow at any given amount of KE is gonna deflect some and twist some too letting the arrow go through the intercostal space. I'm thinking as I type this, I know I know, but if you were to compare a shoulder blade to a piece of plywood, that I could believe, but there are so many variables there too. On an exit wound of 1.5-1.75 inches you would think there would be some cuts in the ribs because of the width of the blades would be greater than the intercostal space.
I guess what I'm asking for is your methodology, or better put, your scientific process.
The 'Bonker
I shot them through a ripe catalope and upon entry they opened from .55" to.75", and completely opened to the 1.5" cut by the end of the catalope. It was very soft, I actually have pictures of EVERYTHING, just give me a week or so to post them. The jackhammer wouldn't have opened at-all by the exit. From what I can tell, and from comparitive tests I've conducted over the years they open FAR easier than any other mechanical I've ever shot. I'm sure the rages would do the same thing, but I personally require a hard and solid tip on my heads, not a fan of the C.O.C. tips.... I also conducted HARD quartering shot tests using covered plywood to duplicate a direct rib shot on a whitetail, and had ZERO deflection issues. These heads will kill whitetails all day long, provided the shooter is doing his part!
[/ QUOTE ]
I'll keep that in mind next time I'm tryin to kill me a catalope. Damn dangerous critters. Here is a picture of a killer catalope that has just shed her antlers:
If any of you hunters out there are brave enough to hunt this beast I can act as your guide, but I'm not responsible for any injuries you may suffer while hunting these dangerous animals.
As far as shooting a ripe, or even green, cantaloupe; is there any correlation between deer, or any animal tissue for that matter, and a ripe, or even green cantaloupe?
And about the covered plywood, was it covered in cantaloupe juice? What is the correlation between a given thickness of plywood and a deer, or any animal rib? Remember a rib is actually very flexible and plywood isn't, meaning the rib will actually bend in before anything goes through it. Now I don't have as much experience with bow hunting as the rest of you guys, but if you stick a finger in either the entrance or exit wound can you feel cut rib? Again, I'll admit to my lack of experience with game animals but I'd have to think a rib hit with an arrow at any given amount of KE is gonna deflect some and twist some too letting the arrow go through the intercostal space. I'm thinking as I type this, I know I know, but if you were to compare a shoulder blade to a piece of plywood, that I could believe, but there are so many variables there too. On an exit wound of 1.5-1.75 inches you would think there would be some cuts in the ribs because of the width of the blades would be greater than the intercostal space.
I guess what I'm asking for is your methodology, or better put, your scientific process.
The 'Bonker
WKP - Todd
New Member
I apologize for trying to provide information about a new mechanical broadhead. Next time I'll just slam people!
WKP - Todd
New Member
I will fully explain my methodology in my journal, but basically a cantalope represents the minimum range in softness that a head could possibly be expected to perform and open. Plywood being the maximum expected "hardness" of a rib-cage type hard-quartering away shot.
In all product testing you have to improvise in many cases because the actual "working conditions" can sometimes be impossible to duplicate at time of testing. You do you're best to establish a min and max test range for the application. I set-up my tests based on what I personally needed to know before I used this product in the field.
Unless you have someone who would like me to come into their pen and shoot live animals, not sure how to test any other way without actual real-world testing - which will commence mid-September in Wisconsin....
In all product testing you have to improvise in many cases because the actual "working conditions" can sometimes be impossible to duplicate at time of testing. You do you're best to establish a min and max test range for the application. I set-up my tests based on what I personally needed to know before I used this product in the field.
Unless you have someone who would like me to come into their pen and shoot live animals, not sure how to test any other way without actual real-world testing - which will commence mid-September in Wisconsin....
Fishbonker
Life Member
[ QUOTE ]
I apologize for trying to provide information about a new mechanical broadhead. Next time I'll just slam people!
[/ QUOTE ]
Wasn't trying to slam you, just trying to be sure you were comparing apples to apples. I get very very very skeptical when somebody who is sponsored by a particular product touts it as the latest and greatest especially when another product is slammed (Wasp). So what you may have taken as a slam I ment as a chance for you to show me why I should trust what you are saying.
When I first read your post I thought you were kidding and the "catalope" was an intentional misspelling. Then I remembered I met you at the Classic last year and I bought your DVD this summer. I don't think you kid around much, but by the time I rememberd that I had the "Catalope" thing done and I switched back into skeptic mode.
Now, since you replied I understand the "minimum resistance" thing. I still wonder about it though. It might make more sense to me if you could figure out a way to show how much difference in reistance it takes for each head to open up. If I'm on your wave lenghth, a head that opens up with minimal resistance will carry more KE throught the hide/animal? So, lets say for example, the head you are being paid to use takes 1 joule of energy to open and another takes two joules, is that a siginficant enough difference(p<0.05)for the results to be of any practical value? From Wikipedia: "A common misconception is that a statistically significant result is always of practical significance, or demonstrates a large effect in the population. Unfortunately, this problem is commonly encountered in scientific writing. Given a sufficiently large sample, extremely small and non-notable differences can be found to be statistically significant, and statistical significance says nothing about the practical significance of a difference."
As a matter of clarification, I have no stake and receive no remuneration from the company that produces Wasp expandables nor from any business that sells any Wasp products. I will admit though, I was at Scheels last night and I looked at 'em pretty hard, but the card stayed on the rack. I've already got over 60 bucks in Spitfires. Both COC and the ones with the round point.
The 'Bonker
I apologize for trying to provide information about a new mechanical broadhead. Next time I'll just slam people!
[/ QUOTE ]
Wasn't trying to slam you, just trying to be sure you were comparing apples to apples. I get very very very skeptical when somebody who is sponsored by a particular product touts it as the latest and greatest especially when another product is slammed (Wasp). So what you may have taken as a slam I ment as a chance for you to show me why I should trust what you are saying.
When I first read your post I thought you were kidding and the "catalope" was an intentional misspelling. Then I remembered I met you at the Classic last year and I bought your DVD this summer. I don't think you kid around much, but by the time I rememberd that I had the "Catalope" thing done and I switched back into skeptic mode.
Now, since you replied I understand the "minimum resistance" thing. I still wonder about it though. It might make more sense to me if you could figure out a way to show how much difference in reistance it takes for each head to open up. If I'm on your wave lenghth, a head that opens up with minimal resistance will carry more KE throught the hide/animal? So, lets say for example, the head you are being paid to use takes 1 joule of energy to open and another takes two joules, is that a siginficant enough difference(p<0.05)for the results to be of any practical value? From Wikipedia: "A common misconception is that a statistically significant result is always of practical significance, or demonstrates a large effect in the population. Unfortunately, this problem is commonly encountered in scientific writing. Given a sufficiently large sample, extremely small and non-notable differences can be found to be statistically significant, and statistical significance says nothing about the practical significance of a difference."
As a matter of clarification, I have no stake and receive no remuneration from the company that produces Wasp expandables nor from any business that sells any Wasp products. I will admit though, I was at Scheels last night and I looked at 'em pretty hard, but the card stayed on the rack. I've already got over 60 bucks in Spitfires. Both COC and the ones with the round point.
The 'Bonker
gersdorf
Life Member
[ QUOTE ]
So, lets say for example, the head you are being paid to use takes 1 joule of energy to open and another takes two joules, is that a siginficant enough difference(p<0.05)for the results to be of any practical value?
[/ QUOTE ]
Who knew bonker was like Mr. Wizard
So, lets say for example, the head you are being paid to use takes 1 joule of energy to open and another takes two joules, is that a siginficant enough difference(p<0.05)for the results to be of any practical value?
[/ QUOTE ]
Who knew bonker was like Mr. Wizard
Limb Chicken
Active Member
I doubt he was slamming jak hammers bonks, that is all he used to shoot. They are on of the best and toughest expandable broadheads manufactured. I have one i will bring over for you to try along with that famous turkey vest...
I have no dog in this fight but I will put jak hammers up against any head on the market. I have done my field testing...
I have no dog in this fight but I will put jak hammers up against any head on the market. I have done my field testing...