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Money, Greed, Big Whitetails

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BWJ</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rest assured guys and gals the powers that be (FB, insurance, etc.) are trying their damndest to make it happen. I spoke to Elkhunter over the phone last week about some of the pending legislation and he is sincerely concerned. We need to all, as frustrated as all of us may be with the continued efforts that it takes, be diligent in contacting legislators as well as educating the non-hunting public about the concerns we have regarding the future of IA outdoor hunting opportunities. I hate writing those damn e-mails as much as anyone but I also know the future risks are real. </div></div>

I couldn't agree more! Everyone who reads this thread should be motivated to call their legislators and those in the sub-committees that are dealing with increased NR tags and transferrable tags. You need to let them know you are opposed to this legislation. Convey to your legislator that you feel very strongly about these issues and that they need to do what is best for the residents of Iowa. I would bet that these big money boys (FB, insurance companies, outfitters, realtors, ect.) are greasing the wheels and letting their voices be heard. Outfitters and realtors have sucked Illinois dry and now they want to do the same to Iowa. Don't stand by and watch it happen! Get involved and protect your future hunting opportunities. If some of you still don't understand what is at stake I suggest you take the time to read the following Outdoorlife article. Realize that this was written over 4 years ago and the problem has only gotten worse.

http://www.outdoorlife.com/article.jsp?ID=21010020&page=1&typeID=678&categoryID=1159&adid=T678/C1159
 
Ghost, 56 guys a week may be an understatement I haven't been to his website so I don't know the numbers. I know the guys by us hunt 20-27 guys a week from Oct. 12-Dec.1, at $4,000 a pop. Pretty sorry for a camp that only shot a dozen or so bucks all year. The land they hunt use to be some of the best in the area but they have completely destroyed it and they are a small operation. I can't imagine what Mr. Ward's big operation does to the land. Hope and pray and do everything you can to ensure that IA doesn't become IL in terms of the number of tags alloted for NR. I will more than likely leave this great state in the next few years and only being able to hunt it once every 3 years will be fine with me as long as it remains how it is.

Jarin
 
I've never read that article, it was excellent, especially the Illinois part. So many people just don't get what a mess this will make Iowa. It will ruin our rural fabric! Something Iowans are very proud of and makes this State a good place to live. If you haven't read the article Iowaqdm posted, I'd recommend it. What happened in Illinois is just pathetic. This crap has even divided families and friends.
 
I can't believe there are that many idiots out there, who keep operations like that running. 20-27 hunnters a week? Did I read that right?

It's a bad situation for sure...and again, when there are so many places out there in N.A to go hunt whitetails..I can't believe anyone in their right mind would be willing to share outfitter and guide services with 20+ others a week. I cannot even come close to fully understanding the mess, I can only speculate...but, Jarin..am I reading your post right??? 20+ people a week, on how many acres?
 
If I remember correctly they have 3 or 4 lodges, have over 400 stands out & lease over 10,000 acres. I think they run over 400 hunters a season!!! I know some locals who really complain & some that think he's management practices are better for the hunting??? A guy told me last year that they make you stay in the stand they put you in after driving up to it which doesn't appeal to me, they count your arrows & if you shoot a sub standard buck it's a $1,000.00 fine. I heard from a reliable source that a known musician shot a buck on one of their 140 minimum farms that scored 139 7/8" & they fined him. They just picked up more prime ground all around us, thank goodness the landowner wants nothing to do with Mr. Ward!
 
Guys, fight this battle with everything you can. My good ol' homestate of Kansas now has a bill before the legislature to effectively remove the sales tax on purchase of guiding of all kinds of hunts (mainly deer obviously), and also sales at gamebird farms. Reason? "sales tax has the potential to discourage hunting partication and is counterproductive to past efforts to develop hunting tourism". The story says that if passed it will cost the state $650,000.00 in 2009 in lost taxes. What a load of cow poop! There are a number of legislators, along with KFB, Kansas Outfitters Association, and Kansas Landowners Association, who are trying to everything they can to ruin our state for the resident hunter. Pretty sad...
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Saskguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I can't believe there are that many idiots out there, who keep operations like that running. 20-27 hunnters a week? Did I read that right?

It's a bad situation for sure...and again, when there are so many places out there in N.A to go hunt whitetails..I can't believe anyone in their right mind would be willing to share outfitter and guide services with 20+ others a week. I cannot even come close to fully understanding the mess, I can only speculate...but, Jarin..am I reading your post right??? 20+ people a week, on how many acres? </div></div>

Kaare,

I can't comment on Mr. Wards numbers specifically but I know he runs alot of guys. The outfitter by us however does run 20-27 guys a week out of his camp, prices range but the average guy is paying 3500+ to hunt. This operation has several camps but I can only speak of the one within a few miles of our farm as I talk with these guys quite a bit during the year.

The camp by us that runs 20-27 guys per week I would say is hunting a total of 2500-3000 acres give or take 500 acres, I know personally of three of the farms they hunt because I drive right past them and another friend of ours owns property adjacent to them. They have a lot of preset stands that don't get moved much and get pounded with pressure, probably the main reason they didn't put much on the ground this past year. The first few years they were around they put alot of deer on the ground that were pretty impressive, since then I have watch them shoot more 2.5 yr olds than anything. Pretty sad, I expect them to let go of some of their current farms and pick up new leases so they can ruin some new ground.

Kratz
 
That's crazy. What I know of outfitters up here is that 7 guys a week is lots...and each one wouldn't be within 1000 acres of next guy.
 
man i am depressed reading this stuff....i also saw the ad's on drury's show advertising hco, i remember them saying if you have to save your money for one hunt make it here....no way. i live in wis and our land is disappearing to the loggers..i only could hope that iowa wont go by the wayside thanks to the leasers...its sad to see all the families losing there hunting rights to the rich guys..i wish there were ways to stop it...i also read with some disdain some of the new legislation in Iowa wanting nr hunters to have to buy two doe tags and fill them first before getting another deer....ouch.. you think that will go? i have three years before i can come back to your great state but how can i justify paying 500 for my tag and than have to shoot two does first? i am all about shooting does and they taste great but if you only have a week to hunt it can get kinda dicey wanting to get a nice buck/...
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stringleech</div><div class="ubbcode-body">man i am depressed reading this stuff....i also saw the ad's on drury's show advertising hco, i remember them saying if you have to save your money for one hunt make it here....no way. i live in wis and our land is disappearing to the loggers..i only could hope that iowa wont go by the wayside thanks to the leasers...its sad to see all the families losing there hunting rights to the rich guys..i wish there were ways to stop it...i also read with some disdain some of the new legislation in Iowa wanting nr hunters to have to buy two doe tags and fill them first before getting another deer....ouch.. you think that will go? i have three years before i can come back to your great state but how can i justify paying 500 for my tag and than have to shoot two does first? i am all about shooting does and they taste great but if you only have a week to hunt it can get kinda dicey wanting to get a nice buck/... </div></div>

I don't think it is a bad idea but maybe just 1 doe, one reason for the IL deer herd getting worse is the fact that IL NR hunters are not willing to pop a doe, I am all for having some NR huntres but hate when I hear that only 15% of them shoot a doe, they aren't helping the herd management out. The typical excuses pop up like I only have 7 days, I don't want to ruin my chances at a buck but I think these are legit excuses if we are talking one doe.

Kratz
 
yea jkratz. i hear you , im certainly not gonna slam Iowa, they have an awesome deer management prog, i wish wis would have looked a little at Iowa..i just cant imagine what would happen when that 140 inch ten comes by at 10 yards and no doe yet....they had earn a buck in wisconsin once and i didnt get a shot at a doe for almost three weeks..i would hate to have to settle for just a doe in Iowa. they should have a non res doe season for any weapon...i only bow hunt. than guys could come there and whack a doe first. make it a special hunt or something..i love Iowa... was even thinking about moving there but i also like to fish and stuff and i have that here
 
Don't know what the percentages of NR's not shooting doe are but you are right though, the majority won't do it & I don't like it either. I can only speak for myself & the rest of the group I hunt with, we shoot doe every chance we get, most years all doe tags are filled & we only harvested a few mature buck. We've taken many many more doe. Doesn't matter if it's our home state or not.

I don't worry about messing up a chance at a buck by shooting a doe 1st, doesn't seem to make a difference. I shot one out from uder a buck on more than one occasion. 1st time I already filled my buck tag & could have shot a 160" 10 point after I shot the doe. The 2nd time I ended up shooting the doe 1st, which dropped within 20 yards, the buck actually walked up tp her & sniffed her. I filled my buck tag on this one, a 179" gross 12 point. That's why I don't hold back from shooting doe. We typically all go for a doe the 1st chance we get to help the farmer out so we get invited back.

I pretty sure an extremely high percentage of hunters hunting with a any guide wait for a buck & end up with nothing. I've seen a big impact the past 7 years in Illinois since some guides take it to extremes by leasing up everything & running tons of gulible hunters. There's still a few booners around but not as many. Protect what you have in Iowa, it's one of a kind & it would be great to see it stay that way.
 
money greed big whitetails and guiding my experiences!started for me when i was a senior in high school,would have been around 88. dick idol at that time was promoting alberta saskatchewan and manitoba at that time.hunted in wainwright alberta seen world class mulies but nothing on the whitey side.big talk at that time was a guide hunting out of viking alberta i think he had personally killed 7 b.c. deer.when i came in to edmonton air port he had seven texas big hat clients,. 3 out of seven killed bc deer.rumors were they would chase them with trucks,he was later caught poaching.talk at that time was go to saskatchewan young man,next stop just south of meadow lake prov. park in karres country.was sitting with the guide on the last day of the hunt rattling.heard some brush breaking told the guide there was two deer one i could hear close the other staying behind raking trees. so the guide just all of a sudden just stood up,i couldnt beleive it so i stood.the first buck is at about 50 yards i cant see no. 2 he yells shoot, i shoot he drops.we go running over there,he yells booner, and grabs my rifle out of my hands and is trying to shoot the bigger one,didnt know how to operate safety.so i grab my rifle back and dump bigger one.what a joke
that ended rifle hunting for me.next stop montana bow hunting with the wensel brothers 93 shot 150s class buck with recurve sweet hunt but all drives.they said go to iowa young man.went to iowa in 94 and been here ever since best, bowhunting in the world.Chris Ellis is right they are here setting up shop so be prepared.has far has blevins perez ward they are already cashing in. a good friend of mine was trying to peice together a nice farm that is near one that i have.perez realizing what he was doing undermined a quick deal for blevins to buy this chunk.needless to say in two weeks they said he could have this for an extra 30,000,being a critical chunk my freind had to bite.perez sas he a deer hunter first realtor second,yes right money talks bull walks.well that extra 30000 blevins (your irs attorney)made can pay for that 7500 dollar fine.guides and realtors will always tell you what you want to here but money talks and bull walks that is all i have to say about that!
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> next stop just south of meadow lake prov. park in karres country.was sitting with the guide on the last day of the hunt rattling.heard some brush breaking told the guide there was two deer one i could hear close the other staying behind raking trees. so the guide just all of a sudden just stood up,i couldnt beleive it so i stood.the first buck is at about 50 yards i cant see no. 2 he yells shoot, i shoot he drops.we go running over there,he yells booner, and grabs my rifle out of my hands and is trying to shoot the bigger one,didnt know how to operate safety.so i grab my rifle back and dump bigger one.what a joke
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First of all, if you were just south of the park, then you truly were in my country..within a few miles. Secondly, did i read it right, did you shoot both bucks? Thirdly, I don't doubt that the guide would do that and that is sad. I sit here and think about some of the guides I know here....I don't want to come off as a jerk, but I'll bet my youngest son I can find my way around the deer woods better than them, make better stand choices than them...and bottom line, be a better guide b/c I love hunting whitetails way more than they do. Like I said, I don't want to sound like a jerk, but when I sit back and think about guys spending their hard earned $ to go on a hunt of a lifetime, anywhere, they should expect nothing but the best, nothing half assed...but sadly, almost anywhere there is whitetail outfitting, there are some who do things half assed, and that is sad!
 
Well, as much as the Drury guys talk up Hadley Creek, this situation should be enough for them to not hunt with them anymore, unless they're truly out for good deer footage.
 
I was looking on Archery Talk last night and they have a thread on there talking about this situation with Blevins, HCO, Whitetail Properties, Whitetail Properties TV, ect. It had around 300 posts. Some interesting connections between Ward, Blevins, and Perez. There were also several guys talking about their experiences at HCO. Not trying to promote another site but I thought it was some intersting reading considering these are the type of guys who are trying so hard to set up shop in Iowa. If the transferrable tag legislation, NR landowner tag legislation or the legislation to increase the number of NR tags is passed you can look forward to guys like this pillaging a woodlot near you! Get on the phone and call your legislators! There are links in the IBA section on how to find your legislator. There are also threads that tell what the different bills are and who is on the various committies. If your a resident and want to preserve your deer hunting opportunities you need to do your part by phone or email.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Saskguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Secondly, did i read it right, did you shoot both bucks? </div></div>

I was wondering too?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Saskguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Thirdly, I don't doubt that the guide would do that and that is sad. I sit here and think about some of the guides I know here....I don't want to come off as a jerk, but I'll bet my youngest son I can find my way around the deer woods better than them, make better stand choices than them...and bottom line, be a better guide </div></div>

I'll vouch for a couple guys. I know a couple guides that live whitetails and usually deliver their clients to great deer. I also know and have seen outfitters here too that have several, maybe 10 or 12 baits in a line about 800 yds apart each, and a hunter sitting at each bait simltaniously.


On scouting and stand placement, I am sure you could do better too Kaare....Hell I am hoping to sucker you into coming down to help me set up stands!!!!
 
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