Morning Shower thought..

[Tmayer13]

So there I was this morning brushing my teeth in shower and getting lost in thought about this weekends possible habitat improvements I want to get done when something dawned on me...In my line of work I deal with farmers of all ages. Many of them know my love for the White-Tailed deer. And many of the blue hairs tell me about the old days when deer were not around, and it was a big deal if you shot one let alone saw one!

So this got be thinking.......

We are always talking about "restoring to native habitat"(myself included), but is this the correct line of thinking. Because 50 years ago the farms were far smaller in size, so one would believe there would have been far less corporate farming. So my point is that if we are restoring back to what the habitat was years ago when the deer herds were exponentially smaller is this the correct way of thinking? Is the native habitat really better for the wildlife?

I know I certainly do not want to go back to the days of low deer numbers!

Thanks for reading the first installment of "Morning Shower Thoughts" with Todd

 

[Slick]

Does anyone know if Iowa produced the same amounts of Corn and beans annually 40 years ago?

The flip side is it sounds like there was a lot more quail/pheasants back then.

Who brushes their teath in the shower?

 

[whitetail_obsession]

I don't think the population of the past was necessarily due to habitat but more how the resource was managed. I grew up in Northern WI and remember my Dad telling me about the lack of deer and giving out party tags so a group of guys could shoot a doe. Now they hand out free tags just for buying a license. The population exploded in the 90s there just like it did in Iowa and there wasn't any major change to habitat in Northern WI I have ever witnessed. Therefore, I believe anything we can do to improve habitat will improve the health of the deer herd but there are only so many deer that can be supported per acre based on food. You need both habitat and food to support any healthy deer population.

 

[Tmayer13]

Does anyone know if Iowa produced the same amounts of Corn and beans annually 40 years ago?

The flip side is it sounds like there was a lot more quail/pheasants back then.

Who brushes their teath in the shower?

Time saver bud!

 

[iowavf]

I highly doubt farming the from one road ditch to the other, tearing out trees and cleaning up brushy ditches for more crop land is what improved the Iowa deer herd?

 

[Ishi]

In the late 70s as a kid in my area deer were almost non existent like Sasquatch is today

 

[Bassattackr]

I agree that it’s modern agriculture practices that favor deer and penalize small game.

Food for deer has increased exponentially.

While brushy fencerows and weedy crops are now almost nonexistent.

 

[hillrunner]

You need to go back to the time of the European arrival in this country if you want to know what things were like historically. The low deer numbers of 50 years ago were not the norm in history.

 

[203ntyp]

Growing up in the mid 60's in PA there were a lot of deer in the big woods and mountains and in some farming areas close to the vast tracks of timber. The mountains were hunted hard, especially upstate. Everyone drove upstate to hunting cabins until they knocked the doe population down big time and started complaining there were no deer.

Now the urban areas are the go-to spot to hunt. The farm my family had about 4 to 5 miles from the big timber had no deer. Like mentioned, we did have a ton of small game though. In the 70's we started seeing deer in the smaller wood lots, now they are everywhere.

I contribute it to farming and yield increases that appealed to the resourceful whitetail and less pressure. Cover habitat is still important to hold deer. The modern farming techniques have wiped out the once huge population of pheasants for sure but the deer like it.

 

[letemgrow]

I remember the "old timers" talking about how there were 2 areas in Mercer County, MO that had deer back in the 70's. Deer were common later in the 80's. Still remember this like it was yesterday when my dad shot this buck in the mid 80's. It was a 10-2 buck after he passed 20+ deer. The area didn't have any crops where this buck was taken. It was oak timber and cattle pastures. The closest crops were over a mile away.

 

[Windwalker]

Finding deer in the 70s was work. The population build up was the tagging system.Look what all the doe tags have done to Iowa’s deer herd lately. As for all our pheasants CRP cover ,Iowa should have vast numbers of birds . I remember when driving about sunset resulted in broken windshields from all the birds. Lack of trapping raccoons and predators have all but done away with Iowa’s glory years. I just hope the DNR will try to manage our whitetail buck size and not cave on the more tags for cash.If the DNR wanted money for the state pheasant hunting drew so many hunters to this state you couldn’t find a motel room open day of pheasant season.

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

My sense is there was not regulation after settlement. People would shoot the deer. You couldn't go to Hyvee and get groceries. Modern day wildlife management saved alot of critters....

 

[Daver]

I don't think the population of the past was necessarily due to habitat but more how the resource was managed. ...

I think you are absolutely correct! Which...makes all of the current conversation about being careful with the regs, etc, etc, that much more meaningful. Short, short version...we really need to be careful with the regs or we could very possibly get back to very few deer on the landscape. Of course, some would like it this way (some farmers) and others could care less, they are only focused on short term profits via sales (xbow mfg, etc.).

I am old enough to remember relatively few deer out and about when I first started hunting 50 years or so ago. We would hunt pheasants, quail and other small game and go all fall without seeing a deer or maybe a couple.

 

[Daver]

In the late 70s as a kid in my area deer were almost non existent like Sasquatch is today

This. ^^ I would have first been out in the fields, mainly chasing pheasants, in the early 70's. LOTS of roosters...almost no deer, FWIW.

 

[Ishi]

You need to go back to the time of the European arrival in this country if you want to know what things were like historically. The low deer numbers of 50 years ago were not the norm in history.

You are very correct on this mankind came close to whipping them out with commercial hunting like they did with the Bison.
I’ve always wondered how many booners were running around in those days

 

[Bassattackr]

You are very correct on this mankind came close to whipping them out with commercial hunting like they did with the Bison.
I’ve always wondered how many booners were running around in those days

Look up the books by Archibold Rutledge. The massive deer they used to kill running hounds in the swamps of South Carolina is staggering. Mostly early to mid 1900s I believe.

 

[Sligh1]

Very interesting.
So iowa would have still had lots of timber hundreds of years ago. Most of the ag areas would have been big blue, Indian & other grass type prairies. We clearly know Whitetail’s do like that grass & do like that timber. They clearly would be lacking on the huge game changer of agriculture & even the forest management & different growth stages constantly changing today from human activity. Deer clearly thrive due to this.
I would say their use of prairie was high other than when buffalo competed. They need timber as well. I’d guess it’s safe to say iowa 200 or 2000 years ago was loaded with deer.
I’ll bet the plains of N iowa had more deer then vs now Wooded areas now maybe have more than then, maybe.

Here’s a random twister…. I’ll bet a nickel there was SOME LEVEL of pride amongst Indians when they shot a big buck. Clearly those antlers got made into tools or something but I bet there was some sort of bragging & pride back at the Tribe party when one of the guys got a “booner”

 

[DannyBoy]

Regulation has a lot to do with deer having the chance to rebound. Agriculture does also, but in my opinion only from the perspective that it (grain) is acting as a stand in since nearly all of their native food (browse) has been removed.

Think of all the browse available in historic areas where wetlands or river bottom timbers transitioned to oak savanna, which transitioned to Tallgrass prairie. And those areas had constant disturbance creating succession.

There is no native prairie left and our timber sucks now. At least a vast majority of it does. But, a few areas that I hunt where it's pretty good with mast producing trees and many stages of succession, quite a few of the deer I shoot have ZERO grain in their stomachs, even though it's available.





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[hillrunner]

Regulation has a lot to do with deer having the chance to rebound. Agriculture does also, but in my opinion only from the perspective that it (grain) is acting as a stand in since nearly all of their native food (browse) has been removed.

Think of all the browse available in historic areas where wetlands or river bottom timbers transitioned to oak savanna, which transitioned to Tallgrass prairie. And those areas had constant disturbance creating succession.

There is no native prairie left and our timber sucks now. At least a vast majority of it does. But, a few areas that I hunt where it's pretty good with mast producing trees and many stages of succession, quite a few of the deer I shoot have ZERO grain in their stomachs, even though it's available.





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Yep , whitetail deer have adapted extremely well to modern humans. That doesn't mean they needed them.