Muzzleloader Bullets

[Justhunt87]

Barnes all the way. For accuracy I really like the tmz. For carnage I really like the expander. SST's are garbage in my opinion. 250 grain TMZ bullet with harvester muzzleloading high pressure boat tail sabots. Best combination I've used hands down.

 

[LYON]

Awesome replies so far guys! Kind of what I expected to hear with the Barnes being ahead of everything else.
Liv, how is a 290gr. bullet going to give you better trajectory than a 250?

 

[Rich77]

The 290 grain barnes has one of the best ballistic coefficient of any muzzeloader bullet on the market.
They were equally as accurate for me as the 250's are but im not the only person that shoots my muzzeloader and i wanted to keep recoil fairly manageable.
In my encore 120 grains of blackhorn and a 290 grain barnes was super accurate as far as i shot it and if i was the only one shooting my gun it would be tough to beat. More powder and heavier bullet equals more recoil and I know my wife wouldn't enjoy shooting it or end up with scope eye... both wouldn't be good.
She doesnt do the cold very well is why she doesnt have her own gun or because i cant decide what new gun i want so she can have my encore....

 

[Liv4Rut]

Awesome replies so far guys! Kind of what I expected to hear with the Barnes being ahead of everything else.
Liv, how is a 290gr. bullet going to give you better trajectory than a 250?

Rich77 is correct. The 290 grains have a higher ballistic coefficient than the 250s therefore they shoot slightly flatter. I don't have the trajectory sheet in front of me but believe it was 1 to 1.5 inch less drop at 200 yards which is not a whole lot but I will take it.

 

[LYON]

Rich77 is correct. The 290 grains have a higher ballistic coefficient than the 250s therefore they shoot slightly flatter. I don't have the trajectory sheet in front of me but believe it was 1 to 1.5 inch less drop at 200 yards which is not a whole lot but I will take it.

Interesting. Good to know! I'll definitely keep that in mind!

 

[cornfedkiller]

Rich77 is correct. The 290 grains have a higher ballistic coefficient than the 250s therefore they shoot slightly flatter. I don't have the trajectory sheet in front of me but believe it was 1 to 1.5 inch less drop at 200 yards which is not a whole lot but I will take it.

How does that work? I'm not a gun guy, so I don't know a ton of ballistics stuff, but I have taken a few physics courses in college, and it would seem to me that with the same powder load, a heavier bullet would drop more. I dont understand?

 

[blackpowder72]

Barnes Spit-Fire TMZ all the way!!! I have shot every muzzleloader bullet under the sun and nothing compares! Massive entry and exit holes , blood trails from the point of impact. I shoot 3/4" groups at 100 yards with 3 Triple Seven pellets , zeroed in at 100 im 12" low at 200.

 

[Rich77]

Basically because a longer/ heavier bullet shot at the same velocity will not be as effected by the wind and has a better aerodynamic profile than a shorter/lighter bullet.
There is alot that goes into ballistic coefficients but it boils down to the heavier longer bullet flying through the air better and it carries more retained energy simply because it carries more mass.

I shot the 290's with 120 grains of blackhorn 209 and once my gun was zeroed at 100 yards i didnt see much difference in bullet drop using my drop reticle out to 250 yards vs the load im currently shooting wich is a 250 grain bullet and 110 grains of blackhorn.
So obviously 10 grains of powder is less significant than 40 grains of bullet weight!
You can't go wrong with eithet set up but 40 grains more bullet weight is very significant.

 

[Liv4Rut]

Cornfedkiller,

Read this link below. I think you will be shocked seeing 300 and 400 grain bullets with less drop than 250 grain bullets at 200 yards with the same powder charge out of the same gun. These heavy bullets also have a much lower muzzle velocity.

It is kind of like what can you throw further, a whiffle ball or a baseball? A whiffle ball weighs a lot less, you are using the same power with your arm therefore you must be able to throw it further than a baseball correct?

Of course you cannot. Its too light, wind drags it down and it loses steam. In bullet terms it would have a much lower ballistic coefficient than a baseball.

Here is the article.

http://www.namlhunt.com/mltrajectory.html

 

[6Popes1Booner]

As long as we're on this subject. How often do you guys clean your guns? When sighting in/ hunting etc? thnx.

 

[bigbuckhunter88]

First of all I'm on the Barnes wagon also and I shoot the 290s. They are money. And as far as cleaning when sighting in will swab the barrel until I get it zeroed and then shoot a few more shots with a dirty barrel just to make sure it doesn't affect the bullet much. With BH209 I have found it doesn't make any difference. When hunting I always go in with a cleaned barrel but know that multiple shots won't affect the bullets impact point.

 

[cornfedkiller]

Cornfedkiller,

Read this link below. I think you will be shocked seeing 300 and 400 grain bullets with less drop than 250 grain bullets at 200 yards with the same powder charge out of the same gun. These heavy bullets also have a much lower muzzle velocity.

It is kind of like what can you throw further, a whiffle ball or a baseball? A whiffle ball weighs a lot less, you are using the same power with your arm therefore you must be able to throw it further than a baseball correct?

Of course you cannot. Its too light, wind drags it down and it loses steam. In bullet terms it would have a much lower ballistic coefficient than a baseball.

Here is the article.

http://www.namlhunt.com/mltrajectory.html

Makes sense! Thanks!

 

[2-bucks]

Another vote for Barnes. A little more data to explain why....

I bought the Expander MZ's (basic hollow point) in 2002 when I first bought an inline, which is just an inexpensive CVA, because I knew and liked Barnes rifle bullets. This combo shot fine out to 200 yds (3-4"groups) off a mediocre rest so I have always shot them. I did test out a couple other brands that did not group well in my gun so never shot them at a deer. The Barnes bullets have performed well on everything from a small buck at 30 yards with 150 grains of pellets to a big doe at 75 yds with only 50 grains of pellet by my daughter. This last one had to have a pretty low velocity yet went through both lungs/ribs and had a good exit hole and blood trail.

They are tough to load, so I might try the Spit Fire EZ at some point but as long as Barnes is making muzzy bullets I won't mess with anything else.

 

[WillBates]

Rich77 is correct. The 290 grains have a higher ballistic coefficient than the 250s therefore they shoot slightly flatter. I don't have the trajectory sheet in front of me but believe it was 1 to 1.5 inch less drop at 200 yards which is not a whole lot but I will take it.

Yep your right. This is why I shot 290 Barnes TEZ's. Problem with those was even with my vortek ldr and 110grns of blackhorn 209 I couldnt get decent expansion. 2 Bucks I shot with those died fast, due to heart shot and a double lung, but the bullets seemed to pencil through leaving small holes and really no blood trails. If it hadnt been for shooting them in large open fields they may have been tougher to find, especially the lung shot buck. I switched to 300 grain Harvester Scorpion PT Bullets and use there sabots. Best sabot in the world to load and lose no accuracy what so ever. The cup on the bottom of those sabots expand very well to your bore. I have shot 1 buck with those at 160 yards and it had a decent average hole going in, but a half dollar sized hole going out. I dropped to 105 grains of blackhorn and found my groupings to get to around 1 moa easy at 100 yards. U guys really need to try these!
https://www.harvestermuzzleloading.com/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=8&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=3&vmcchk=1&Itemid=3

 

[WillBates]

First of all I'm on the Barnes wagon also and I shoot the 290s. They are money. And as far as cleaning when sighting in will swab the barrel until I get it zeroed and then shoot a few more shots with a dirty barrel just to make sure it doesn't affect the bullet much. With BH209 I have found it doesn't make any difference. When hunting I always go in with a cleaned barrel but know that multiple shots won't affect the bullets impact point.

Blackhorn shoots more consistant out of a dirty barrel. My guns shot alitte to way off with a clean barrel vs a dirty shot barrel. I have also shot over 35-40 rounds no swabbing and accuracy is unreal. There are numerous posts and tests all over the internet about not swabbing with blackhorn 209. The stuff Is practically smokeless.
There is also tests that people have done to see how long to leave the gun uncleaned to see the affects of the powder. Yes you need to clean it, but its far less corrosive than any black powder subsitute. I have tested it without cleaning my gun for over 2 weeks. No rust. Also cleans out with regular bore cleaner like hoppes #9.

 

[AIRASSAULT]

Here are a couple pics of a Hornady SST 250gr with 150gr 777. I mentioned about earlier. This was a 150 yard shot on a doe and she ran 100 yds with very little blood trail. Bullet went through the meat of her right front shoulder, through the middle of a rib bone and angled back and shattered a bone in her left rear leg. After going through all that, I would expect more expansion from a bullet if not in pieces. I think I will be making the switch to Barnes next season! I've shot several deer with these SST's and always a bad blood trail.

 

[Justhunt87]

X2 on the harvester muzzleloading sabots!!!!!!

 

[Rich77]

Problem with those was even with my vortek ldr and 110grns of blackhorn 209 I couldnt get decent expansion. 2 Bucks I shot with those died fast, due to heart shot and a double lung, but the bullets seemed to pencil through leaving small holes and really no blood trails. If it hadnt been for shooting them in large open fields they may have been tougher to find, especially the lung shot buck.

Ive never seen this happen with a tipped barnes. Ive got a picture of a lung shot deer that you could stick a beer can in the exit of. As long as barnes is still making bullets im going to keep ramming them down my barrel

 

[Rich77]

No idea how i goofed up the quote deal but my reply is obviously at the bottom. If anyone wants to post pics i can email them to anyone

 

[LYON]

Here's a chart I put together quick to show the different energy output from different Barnes bullets. The bullet info I got straight from Barnes webstie, the velocity info I took from Blackhorn 209's website (Based on the correct bullets). I plugged the values in to an app called Strelok on my Droid. Pretty interesting to see how the heavier bullets really retain there velocity and thus their energy. The bullet drop is assuming a 100 yard zero. The values may and will vary based on gun, but it's still pretty neat to see the comparison.