I know of places to that I can see 50-100 deer in a field down here too.But those places are owned by an outfitter or someone like Lee and Tiffany.I drive by their place every day on the way to work.Those are the places the DNR fly over and see and think there is too many deer.It might as well be a zoo because those deer aren't huntable so they shouldn't even be counted as part of the deer herd.Between Bloomfield and Keosauqua there is about 6 big outfitters.The properties managed by them is the only place where there is an abundance of deer.
My Challenge To You
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Blaster
PMA Member
You are exactly right! And guys don't forget that deer will travel many miles to find food. There are areas that are loaded with deer durring the rut that have 0 deer in them right now. Last time i drove though southern iowa there was a lot of corn in the fields. I know were the deer are!
Blaster
PMA Member
Blaster, if this is the first time you have heard this, then you have never read one of my posts. I live east of Floris and can say with absolutely no uncertainty that our deer numbers are far lower than when I moved onto this farm in 1994!! Every one knows that I have been saying these kinds of things for several years and many of the things I predicted 2 or 3 years ago are now coming true. The total harvest for this year was only 136,497 deer with nearly 400,000 licenses sold. If there actually were WAY too many deer wouldn't that ratio been much higher? Let's just look at Davis county for a minute. In 2006 the total kill for Davis co was 3170 deer and for 2009 it was 3136, but the interesting fact is that in 2006 there were only 1054 does killed but in 2009 there were 1818 killed. That points out a couple of things to me. 1. There are too many people coming down to Davis co to hunt with rifles during the January season. 2. That there are too many does being killed to sustain a good quality herd given the amount of food and habitat available in the county. I have hunted in Davis and Van Buren counties for 35 years and saw fewer deer this year than in almost any year in the past, and I don't see it getting any better in the near future.
Lets try to put this in perspective. If you had a cow herd with 200 animals in it with about half being cows and half being bulls and you are told that to keep the herd healthy you needed to reduce it by about half, how would you do it. Of those 100 animals would you sell 60 cows and 40 bulls or would you look at it differently if you wanted to continue raising cows for quite a few years. I think most of you would keep 20 bulls from the original 200 animals and sell the other 80 bulls and 20 cows to make the 100 animal reduction and have a reproduction stock that would keep you in the cattle business. You certainly would not sell over 60 percent of cows with the mistaken idea that you were creating a more healthy herd. WHY SHOULDN'T WE DO THE SAME THING WITH THE DEER HERD? :thrwrck:
I really dislike hearing phrases like Way too many deer, or A ton of deer, or There are more deer that you think because I see them in fields. How many deer are actually living on your uncle's farm? Do you know or just making a generalization based on what you have heard or might have observes in a food source field. The IDNR doesn't know how many deer we have in the state so how can any one say we have Way too many deer? I have never felt that we have Way too many so who gets to make that determination for me? We all know that especially this time of year that the deer tend to concentrate on food sources so the 50 deer you see in a 5 mile drive might just be the only ones 10 square miles. Since 1994 I have driven either to Bloomfield or Fairfield leaving home at 7Am and returning home at 6:30 PM. That is about 60 miles per day at prime times of the day to see deer in the fall and winter and I do see a few deer but not many. I drive country roads, blacktop roads and highways so I am exposed to deer country in Davis, Wapello, and Jefferson counties and I say there are NOT ENOUGHT deer so who is right? The IDNR has stated that their population goal is only 170,000 animals state wide. That means that if we harvest 40 percent we only have a harvest of 68,000 animals. Is that what any one really wants? Go tell the hunters in Grundy county, who only killed 88 total deer for the whole county in 2009 that they need to cut their harvest numbers by 60 percent next year so that we will have a healthier deer herd in Iowa.
Oops, got up too much steam!:grin:
Lets try to put this in perspective. If you had a cow herd with 200 animals in it with about half being cows and half being bulls and you are told that to keep the herd healthy you needed to reduce it by about half, how would you do it. Of those 100 animals would you sell 60 cows and 40 bulls or would you look at it differently if you wanted to continue raising cows for quite a few years. I think most of you would keep 20 bulls from the original 200 animals and sell the other 80 bulls and 20 cows to make the 100 animal reduction and have a reproduction stock that would keep you in the cattle business. You certainly would not sell over 60 percent of cows with the mistaken idea that you were creating a more healthy herd. WHY SHOULDN'T WE DO THE SAME THING WITH THE DEER HERD? :thrwrck:
I really dislike hearing phrases like Way too many deer, or A ton of deer, or There are more deer that you think because I see them in fields. How many deer are actually living on your uncle's farm? Do you know or just making a generalization based on what you have heard or might have observes in a food source field. The IDNR doesn't know how many deer we have in the state so how can any one say we have Way too many deer? I have never felt that we have Way too many so who gets to make that determination for me? We all know that especially this time of year that the deer tend to concentrate on food sources so the 50 deer you see in a 5 mile drive might just be the only ones 10 square miles. Since 1994 I have driven either to Bloomfield or Fairfield leaving home at 7Am and returning home at 6:30 PM. That is about 60 miles per day at prime times of the day to see deer in the fall and winter and I do see a few deer but not many. I drive country roads, blacktop roads and highways so I am exposed to deer country in Davis, Wapello, and Jefferson counties and I say there are NOT ENOUGHT deer so who is right? The IDNR has stated that their population goal is only 170,000 animals state wide. That means that if we harvest 40 percent we only have a harvest of 68,000 animals. Is that what any one really wants? Go tell the hunters in Grundy county, who only killed 88 total deer for the whole county in 2009 that they need to cut their harvest numbers by 60 percent next year so that we will have a healthier deer herd in Iowa.
Oops, got up too much steam!:grin:
I don't believe you Blaster.I will give you money for gas and a hotel room to drive down here this weekend and show me.But maybe we have a different idea of what "a ton of deer" is.But I am willing to bet you can't show me 20 deer in a field not owned by an outfitter within 15 miles of Bloomfield.
Ok Blaster I believe you that there are a ton of deer on your uncle's farm. At a 200 pound average that would take 10 deer to weigh a ton so I will concede that there may well be 10 deer on the farm. If you need some help with numbers reduction you can just PM the 2 of us and maybe we can help next fall, because I am sure that there are not 10 deer on my farm right now. 
Blaster
PMA Member
loneranger
Well-Known Member
I'll third that,,I'd like to see a ton a deer. When I moved to Iowa, and bought some land SE of Ottumwa,,from what I'd read,,I was ready to see fields full of deer. The first Fall my wife and I drove the back roads looking. We both said,,where are all the dee?. We still say that. I am glad there are farms loaded with deer, but I believe they are the exception and not the rule.
loneranger
Well-Known Member
Or in this case,,dead deer.
Liv4Rut
Active Member
This topic is a double edged sword. Nobody knows what the definition of too many deer is.
For example this year, I sat on a bean field during late muzzleloader and had 34 deer come out in front me. To me this is a ton of deer in one sit, but its not really a "TON" of deer considering I was sitting next to 500 acres of timber.
On the flip side, I hunted a spot in town once that consisted of 10 acres of timber and 20 acres of ankle high grass. There was little to no other timber in the area for a good mile or so. I had over 60 deer come out of this little timber one night. To me that could be considered a TON of deer. Who knows though, maybe there wasn't a deer in that timber a mile away.
I used to live down in Ottumwa 3 years ago for 9months on an internship. Every night we would glass deer in the evening and shine every night. We covered every inch of ground that way for a 50 mile stretch east to west, South of 34 and everything inbetween. Some areas are definitely better than other areas but all areas hold deer. You might find it unbelievable but I did see a couple big bucks in the Eldon Wildlife area including one giant. That is if you call a 180s a giant. Maybe its changed in three years but they were there.
Based on what I seen, I wouldn't personally hunt anywhere near floris or bloomfield unless I was turkey hunting. Great turkey hunting down that way. Sure there are deer hotspots but in general, I wouldn't hunt it. That's just me though. On the same note though these guys could drive 20 miles and be thick as thieves in deer on public ground and still be in the same county. May not be a ton of deer but I usually see at least 10 deer a sit during the rut which is better than nothing.
I will say from the thousands of miles I spent down there I have one particular route that is probably about 30 miles there and back from where I was living that I know you can drive around in the summer and see a 100-200 deer out in the fields. The ground isn't all leased up or under the control of outfitters. You can take that same drive and do it on a good night of shining in the summer and we would typically average anywhere between 125-175 bucks a night. I know its hard to believe, but its the truth. Anywhere else down there, we couldn't do that.
Is that still too many deer? I don't think so. If you figure all the timber ground around I don't think it is too many. People are going to have to start micromanaging the areas they hunt in which is what the orginal poster requested. The problem with this is everyone has a different opinion on what they would like to see.
For example this year, I sat on a bean field during late muzzleloader and had 34 deer come out in front me. To me this is a ton of deer in one sit, but its not really a "TON" of deer considering I was sitting next to 500 acres of timber.
On the flip side, I hunted a spot in town once that consisted of 10 acres of timber and 20 acres of ankle high grass. There was little to no other timber in the area for a good mile or so. I had over 60 deer come out of this little timber one night. To me that could be considered a TON of deer. Who knows though, maybe there wasn't a deer in that timber a mile away.
I used to live down in Ottumwa 3 years ago for 9months on an internship. Every night we would glass deer in the evening and shine every night. We covered every inch of ground that way for a 50 mile stretch east to west, South of 34 and everything inbetween. Some areas are definitely better than other areas but all areas hold deer. You might find it unbelievable but I did see a couple big bucks in the Eldon Wildlife area including one giant. That is if you call a 180s a giant. Maybe its changed in three years but they were there.
Based on what I seen, I wouldn't personally hunt anywhere near floris or bloomfield unless I was turkey hunting. Great turkey hunting down that way. Sure there are deer hotspots but in general, I wouldn't hunt it. That's just me though. On the same note though these guys could drive 20 miles and be thick as thieves in deer on public ground and still be in the same county. May not be a ton of deer but I usually see at least 10 deer a sit during the rut which is better than nothing.
I will say from the thousands of miles I spent down there I have one particular route that is probably about 30 miles there and back from where I was living that I know you can drive around in the summer and see a 100-200 deer out in the fields. The ground isn't all leased up or under the control of outfitters. You can take that same drive and do it on a good night of shining in the summer and we would typically average anywhere between 125-175 bucks a night. I know its hard to believe, but its the truth. Anywhere else down there, we couldn't do that.
Is that still too many deer? I don't think so. If you figure all the timber ground around I don't think it is too many. People are going to have to start micromanaging the areas they hunt in which is what the orginal poster requested. The problem with this is everyone has a different opinion on what they would like to see.
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Liv4Rut
Active Member
Archery95, I actually agreed with you in my post about the low deer populations. I never said there was a ton of deer anywhere down there. I actually said Floris and Bloomfield is an area I would never hunt because there aren't the amount of deer or the quantity of the quality of deer I am looking for. There are other areas around there that are still great hunting and you can hunt them. You may not see "TONS" of deer but plenty to keep you busy all day. I can guarantee you that. I have been going down there every year for the past 17 years and the hunting is great. I just happened to actually live down there for 9 months and was able to explore a lot of southern Iowa more than most people who lived down there ever will.
Bowmaker, hopefully no offense will be taken, but I have read for the past 3-4 years how there are no deer in your area etc. What you have said in the past is when the hunting starts to suck the hunters will move on to other areas. This is exactly true. I wouldn't hunt your area at all, I would simply drive 20 minutes and hunt in much better areas. From your previous posts you don't care about the big bucks etc so staying where your at probably suits you well. What you will probably see in the future is your area will become a great area again.
At the end of the day, you have two groups saying we have too little deer and another saying too many deer. For the areas I hunt, I would say we have the right amount of deer.
Bowmaker, hopefully no offense will be taken, but I have read for the past 3-4 years how there are no deer in your area etc. What you have said in the past is when the hunting starts to suck the hunters will move on to other areas. This is exactly true. I wouldn't hunt your area at all, I would simply drive 20 minutes and hunt in much better areas. From your previous posts you don't care about the big bucks etc so staying where your at probably suits you well. What you will probably see in the future is your area will become a great area again.
At the end of the day, you have two groups saying we have too little deer and another saying too many deer. For the areas I hunt, I would say we have the right amount of deer.
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I am sorry for the misunderstanding Liv.I know you are right though.There is some great areas around Davis county.A friend of mine had 600 acres with a lot of deer but he also has a lot to draw them from other farms.So his 200 deer are about all there is in a 5 square mile area.I also know around Unionville there is a lot of deer and a lot of public hunting that is good.But I never liked sitting in a tree stand and watch squirrel hunters all day or people picking up walnuts so I don't hunt there much.I looked all summer last year for a place or 2 to hunt in Van Buren county.I was even willing to lease land if I had to.But I couldn't find anything or couldn't afford to pay $20 per acre to hunt 100 acres when only 10 of it had trees on it.
Liv4Rut
Active Member
From what I have seen ever since the rifle season started, and this is only an opinion, its the areas that are more open with more agricultural land that is getting hit the hardest. The areas that are primarily huge tracts of timber with little to no agricultural are still good hunting. The only reason I can think of why this might be is because nobody wants to travel to southern Iowa rifle hunting and shoot a deer at 50 yards. That would most often be the case in the huge timber tracts where you cant shoot far.
The only reason I ever went rifle hunting down there was to get the long 300 yard shots and I hunted down around Cantril. The funny thing is I shot one at 12 yards and one at 60yards. I have never went back. I have a feeling that is why most people hunt the rifle season though, just so they can shoot deer at 300-400 yards and say they did it. Not good thing to do of course because you don't know what your shooting at. unless you have good glass and a lot of time to observe.
The only reason I ever went rifle hunting down there was to get the long 300 yard shots and I hunted down around Cantril. The funny thing is I shot one at 12 yards and one at 60yards. I have never went back. I have a feeling that is why most people hunt the rifle season though, just so they can shoot deer at 300-400 yards and say they did it. Not good thing to do of course because you don't know what your shooting at. unless you have good glass and a lot of time to observe.
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SWBUCKHNTR
Member
The DNR goal is 170,000 deer state wide there are 99 counties in the state at an average of 26 miles by 26 miles that means that there goal is just over 2.5 deer per square mile. If the average was 40 deer per square mile now that would put the population at 2,676,960. We all know that isnt the number of deer in the state. 40 deer per square mile maybe in city limits and strictly managed areas but not average state wide.
Allen Farris, then the head of the fish and wildlife division for the Iowa Department of Natural Resources, testified to lawmakers in 1997 that he thought the deer herd should be between 80,000 and 90,000 in the state. Today the herd is estimated at 475,000. (http://www.drake.edu/cyberpress/2-25/deer.html)
This was taken from an article saying that deer numbers are still too high. If the DNR wants the numbers down that far it will totally destroy deer hunting in the state. Think about it that is a little over 1 deer per square mile. If the herd is healthy with a buck to doe ratio of 1:1 then that means 1 shed for every square mile. This is why we have to manage our farms how we want them and let the farmers or the weekend warriors take care of the does. When we get in on shooting does that is when the population takes a hit. We just need to manage our farms like we want the deer herd to be at record numbers and the neighbors and farmers will do their part by shooting does and we will all have good hunting. One thing we have to remember is they cant kill deer on properties they cant hunt
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chokepoint
New Member
Yeah we have about 5-7 sq mile here and in heavy forest cover. 40 deer per square mile is inconceivable to me.