Necked cartidge bill returns HF 716

[Arec]

I'm a new Iowa resident having lived here just over a year. I reviewed this thread and must say that it seems ridiculous and alarmist. The goal to manage and maintain a high quality deer herd is sound, but the idea that artificial regulations on caliber used to dispatch deer will achieve that goal is absurd.

Herd quality is achieved by regulating and managing the following criteria:

• Which deer are legal to harvest
• When those deer may be legally harvested
• The size of the quota in a given season

It isn't your business if I want to put venison in my freezer using a .243, a .30-30, a .45-70, a slug shotgun, or a muzzle loader. The deer is just as dead with one as it is with the other. I am joining the IFC and will donate / volunteer to do whatever I can until these arbitrary and ineffective restrictions are no longer a plague upon Iowans.

 

[seven twenty]

I'm a new Iowa resident having lived here just over a year. I reviewed this thread and must say that it seems ridiculous and alarmist. The goal to manage and maintain a high quality deer herd is sound, but the idea that artificial regulations on caliber used to dispatch deer will achieve that goal is absurd.

Herd quality is achieved by regulating and managing the following criteria:

• Which deer are legal to harvest
• When those deer may be legally harvested
• The size of the quota in a given season

It isn't your business if I want to put venison in my freezer using a .243, a .30-30, a .45-70, a slug shotgun, or a muzzle loader. The deer is just as dead with one as it is with the other. I am joining the IFC and will donate / volunteer to do whatever I can until these arbitrary and ineffective restrictions are no longer a plague upon Iowans.

The theory on allowable cartridges coincides with the fact that we can party hunt. While I trust the 5 or 6 guys I hunt with, using high power rifles would inherently make things less safe. While the current cartridges also have safety issues, the ballistics are more favorable for fewer incidents.

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

I'm a new Iowa resident having lived here just over a year. I reviewed this thread and must say that it seems ridiculous and alarmist. The goal to manage and maintain a high quality deer herd is sound, but the idea that artificial regulations on caliber used to dispatch deer will achieve that goal is absurd.

Herd quality is achieved by regulating and managing the following criteria:

• Which deer are legal to harvest
• When those deer may be legally harvested
• The size of the quota in a given season

It isn't your business if I want to put venison in my freezer using a .243, a .30-30, a .45-70, a slug shotgun, or a muzzle loader. The deer is just as dead with one as it is with the other. I am joining the IFC and will donate / volunteer to do whatever I can until these arbitrary and ineffective restrictions are no longer a plague upon Iowans.

What state did you come from?

 

[seven twenty]

Can anyone post up the #’s for a 45-70 shot from a rifle vs say a 10” pistol? Or does anyone even have an idea of what the velocity difference is? I’m guessing that is what the “dissimilar” issue is. Normal muzzle velocity from a rifle is around 2000fps but just how much drop off is there in a pistol?

I’ve tried google but haven’t found anything yet.

 

[Arec]

The theory on allowable cartridges coincides with the fact that we can party hunt. While I trust the 5 or 6 guys I hunt with, using high power rifles would inherently make things less safe. While the current cartridges also have safety issues, the ballistics are more favorable for fewer incidents.

The issue you’ve raised is a problem with irresponsible hunters, not the tools with which they are hunting.

If a party of hunters are irresponsible with their firearms it isn’t going to matter whether they’re hunting with a .30-30 or a shotgun. Their failure to follow fundamental firearm safety practices is a reason to restrict their eligibility to hunt, not to restrict the freedom of responsible Iowans to choose which rifles we use to ethically harvest deer.

If there is a real safety issue with party hunting, the solution would be to eliminate party hunting (or, better, to not hunt alongside irresponsible people).

What state did you come from?

I have lived all over the country.

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

The issue you’ve raised is a problem with irresponsible hunters, not the tools with which they are hunting.

If a party of hunters are irresponsible with their firearms it isn’t going to matter whether they’re hunting with a .30-30 or a shotgun. Their failure to follow fundamental firearm safety practices is a reason to restrict their eligibility to hunt, not to restrict the freedom of responsible Iowans to choose which rifles we use to ethically harvest deer.

If there is a real safety issue with party hunting, the solution would be to eliminate party hunting (or, better, to not hunt alongside irresponsible people).




I have lived all over the country.

Ok. And how do you think Iowa's hunting quality compares to the rest of the country?

Secondly, why would you want to keep changing laws to impact Iowa's quality?

 

[Arec]

Ok. And how do you think Iowa's hunting quality compares to the rest of the country?

Secondly, why would you want to keep changing laws to impact Iowa's quality?

Iowa deer are great, the quality of the hunting experience is average (at best). Some of the problems are fixable, some are not. But it would be wrong to ignore problems that are fixable.

As I said in my first post, herd quality is achieved by regulating and managing the following criteria:

• Which deer are legal to harvest
• When those deer may be legally harvested
• The size of the quota in a given season

The tool used to ethically harvest deer does not impact the quality of the herd.

Laws that negatively impact the quality of the hunting experience and do not impact the quality of the herd ought to be changed. I’m glad to see that our elected representatives have been (slowly) working toward changing them.

If not for this thread I would have never known about the IFC, of which I am now a member.

 

[IsThisHeaven?]

Iowa deer are great, the quality of the hunting experience is average (at best). Some of the problems are fixable, some are not. But it would be wrong to ignore problems that are fixable.

As I said in my first post, herd quality is achieved by regulating and managing the following criteria:

• Which deer are legal to harvest
• When those deer may be legally harvested
• The size of the quota in a given season

The tool used to ethically harvest deer does not impact the quality of the herd.

Laws that negatively impact the quality of the hunting experience and do not impact the quality of the herd ought to be changed. I’m glad to see that our elected representatives have been (slowly) working toward changing them.

If not for this thread I would have never known about the IFC, of which I am now a member.

Sounds like you've got it all figured out. Good luck with the IFC.

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

Iowa deer are great, the quality of the hunting experience is average (at best). Some of the problems are fixable, some are not. But it would be wrong to ignore problems that are fixable.

As I said in my first post, herd quality is achieved by regulating and managing the following criteria:

• Which deer are legal to harvest
• When those deer may be legally harvested
• The size of the quota in a given season

The tool used to ethically harvest deer does not impact the quality of the herd.

Laws that negatively impact the quality of the hunting experience and do not impact the quality of the herd ought to be changed. I’m glad to see that our elected representatives have been (slowly) working toward changing them.

If not for this thread I would have never known about the IFC, of which I am now a member.

The efficiency/range/etc of the tool certainly has an impact on deer quality. Wonder what a 50 cal machine gun would do to a standing bean field with 100 deer in it? Yes thats extreme but there is some sliding scale in between.

How exactly would more guns/rifles/weapons add to your experience? Would a 300 win mag make you happier than a 450 bushmaster? I am genuinely curious.

I have hunted every state in the midwest and nothing compares to Iowa.

 

[Ishi]

I’m still amazed that hunters beat their chest when they kill a deer 300-500 yards away...... pure stealth

 

[Arec]

The efficiency/range/etc of the tool certainly has an impact on deer quality. Wonder what a 50 cal machine gun would do to a standing bean field with 100 deer in it? Yes thats extreme but there is some sliding scale in between.

How exactly would more guns/rifles/weapons add to your experience? Would a 300 win mag make you happier than a 450 bushmaster? I am genuinely curious.

I have hunted every state in the midwest and nothing compares to Iowa.

If you had 100 deer in a field and depredation tags for all of them, I wouldn’t take issue with the whatever means you chose to dispatch them as long as you did so legally, ethically, and within the guidelines of the state’s management program.

As for firearm selection, if for example the DNR limits antlerless tags to 325 in Benton County, and all the tags are filled, does it matter if I filled my tag with my grandfather’s .30-30? Or if my daughter used my dad’s .270?

How would my choice to hunt with my grandfather’s .30-30 negatively affect the quality of the herd, so long as the deer was legally harvested in season? I am genuinely curious.

Everyone has different reasons for choosing the specific rifles they hunt with. As long as they’re using rifles they’re proficient with, using them in a safe manner, and are capable of ethically dispatching their targeted animal, I don’t think it is our business why they make those choices.

Iowa has done some things very well, such as limiting opportunities for NRs to hunt, restricting gun season to after the rut, and implementing relatively aggressive quotas in many counties.

 

[Falldreams]

I’m still amazed that hunters beat their chest when they kill a deer 300-500 yards away...... pure stealth

Amen to this statement!!

 

[Falldreams]

If you had 100 deer in a field and depredation tags for all of them, I wouldn’t take issue with the whatever means you chose to dispatch them as long as you did so legally, ethically, and within the guidelines of the state’s management program.

As for firearm selection, if for example the DNR limits antlerless tags to 325 in Benton County, and all the tags are filled, does it matter if I filled my tag with my grandfather’s .30-30? Or if my daughter used my dad’s .270?

How would my choice to hunt with my grandfather’s .30-30 negatively affect the quality of the herd, so long as the deer was legally harvested in season? I am genuinely curious.

Everyone has different reasons for choosing the specific rifles they hunt with. As long as they’re using rifles they’re proficient with, using them in a safe manner, and are capable of ethically dispatching their targeted animal, I don’t think it is our business why they make those choices.

Iowa has done some things very well, such as limiting opportunities for NRs to hunt, restricting gun season to after the rut, and implementing relatively aggressive quotas in many counties.

If you had 100 deer in a field and depredation tags for all of them, I wouldn’t take issue with the whatever means you chose to dispatch them as long as you did so legally, ethically, and within the guidelines of the state’s management program.

As for firearm selection, if for example the DNR limits antlerless tags to 325 in Benton County, and all the tags are filled, does it matter if I filled my tag with my grandfather’s .30-30? Or if my daughter used my dad’s .270?

How would my choice to hunt with my grandfather’s .30-30 negatively affect the quality of the herd, so long as the deer was legally harvested in season? I am genuinely curious.

Everyone has different reasons for choosing the specific rifles they hunt with. As long as they’re using rifles they’re proficient with, using them in a safe manner, and are capable of ethically dispatching their targeted animal, I don’t think it is our business why they make those choices.

Iowa has done some things very well, such as limiting opportunities for NRs to hunt, restricting gun season to after the rut, and implementing relatively aggressive quotas in many counties.

Someone with even the most basic common sense should be able to easily comprehend how legalizing the ability to kill deer at significantly longer ranges than ever previously before in this state will %100 have long term negative effects on the overall quality of the herd. It’s VERY simple to understand.
I always have to ask people that feel so strongly on making the act of killing a deer easier and easier....why?? Where does it end?? It’s supposed to be “hunting” not “shooting” or “killing”. It saddens me to the core how how many wanna be deer hunters in this country just can’t get over there insatiable urges to have to kill deer no matter what. Just want it to be continue to get easier and easier. There is a tremendous difference between a true “hunter” and a “shooter” and that is an undeniable fact.
There are zero reasons anyone in this state should need to have the ability to kill a deer at these ridiculous distances. If a guy can’t figure out how to put a deer down under 200 yards than perhaps he should put down the high caliber rifle and start studying and learning deer behavior and how to actually hunt instead of hey just make this easy for me Iowa would ya.

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

If you had 100 deer in a field and depredation tags for all of them, I wouldn’t take issue with the whatever means you chose to dispatch them as long as you did so legally, ethically, and within the guidelines of the state’s management program.

As for firearm selection, if for example the DNR limits antlerless tags to 325 in Benton County, and all the tags are filled, does it matter if I filled my tag with my grandfather’s .30-30? Or if my daughter used my dad’s .270?

How would my choice to hunt with my grandfather’s .30-30 negatively affect the quality of the herd, so long as the deer was legally harvested in season? I am genuinely curious.

Everyone has different reasons for choosing the specific rifles they hunt with. As long as they’re using rifles they’re proficient with, using them in a safe manner, and are capable of ethically dispatching their targeted animal, I don’t think it is our business why they make those choices.

Iowa has done some things very well, such as limiting opportunities for NRs to hunt, restricting gun season to after the rut, and implementing relatively aggressive quotas in many counties.

Buck tags arnt limited. Everyone gets one. This isn't doe management issue.

If your trying to make a case of expanded cartridges for sentimental reasons, thats not a strong argument. Your dad or grandad didn't use that hypothetical rifle in IOWA for deer, that's for darn sure.

I've seen this movie before. It's most recently played out in Indiana. Nibble nibble nibble at the regulations until full high power inclusion.

Its an absolute travesty people and organizations like the IFC want to keep chipping away to change the rules. The same rules that have made Iowa the best place in the whitetail world. Here's an idea. Let's STOP changing rules.

 

[Arec]

Buck tags arnt limited. Everyone gets one. This isn't doe management issue.

If your trying to make a case of expanded cartridges for sentimental reasons, thats not a strong argument. Your dad or grandad didn't use that hypothetical rifle in IOWA for deer, that's for darn sure.

I've seen this movie before. It's most recently played out in Indiana. Nibble nibble nibble at the regulations until full high power inclusion.

Its an absolute travesty people and organizations like the IFC want to keep chipping away to change the rules. The same rules that have made Iowa the best place in the whitetail world. Here's an idea. Let's STOP changing rules.

My argument is that caliber has negligible effect on herd quality. In 2018, the Allamakee County quota was 3700 antlerless and 861 remained unharvested at the end of the season. In 2019 they had a 3800 allocated and 333 remained. In 2020 they are again at 3800 with 1139 remaining. If we need to adjust the quotas for antlerless, or implement quotas for bucks, that is the proper management procedure--not limiting the caliber of the weapon used to hunt.

Perhaps we'd meet all of our quotas if we eliminated caliber restrictions... but we probably wouldn't. Limiting the caliber the way we do in Iowa is simply arbitrary, antiquated, and ineffective.

If not for organizations like the IFC we would be stuck with these horrible laws forever. Thank God they're making progress.

Proper herd management and the most fertile land in the country have made Iowa the whitetail paradise that it is today. Proper herd management has nothing to do with arbitrary caliber restrictions and everything to do with effective quotas, season dates, and favoring residents over tourists.

Someone with even the most basic common sense should be able to easily comprehend how legalizing the ability to kill deer at significantly longer ranges than ever previously before in this state will %100 have long term negative effects on the overall quality of the herd. It’s VERY simple to understand.
I always have to ask people that feel so strongly on making the act of killing a deer easier and easier....why?? Where does it end?? It’s supposed to be “hunting” not “shooting” or “killing”. It saddens me to the core how how many wanna be deer hunters in this country just can’t get over there insatiable urges to have to kill deer no matter what. Just want it to be continue to get easier and easier. There is a tremendous difference between a true “hunter” and a “shooter” and that is an undeniable fact.
There are zero reasons anyone in this state should need to have the ability to kill a deer at these ridiculous distances. If a guy can’t figure out how to put a deer down under 200 yards than perhaps he should put down the high caliber rifle and start studying and learning deer behavior and how to actually hunt instead of hey just make this easy for me Iowa would ya.

I'd wager that nearly none of us are 'hunting' a deer in any meaningful sense. Not many folks are out there stalking deer with homemade longbows. They're sitting in tree stands over known paths they've scouted with cameras, that lead to food plots they've planted, with zero risk and minimal effort.

I’m still amazed that hunters beat their chest when they kill a deer 300-500 yards away...... pure stealth

There is no appreciable difference in skill between the hunter who harvests a deer from 300 yards away with his .30-06 and the hunter who harvests the deer from 20 yards while sitting in his tree stand over the path to the soybean food plot with his brand new Bowtech Reckoning 38. Hunting is hunting, my friend.

 

[hillrunner]

I’m still amazed that hunters beat their chest when they kill a deer 300-500 yards away...... pure stealth

I agree, at least in a state like Iowa. It's probably a different story up in the mountains or open terrain out west.

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

My argument is that caliber has negligible effect on herd quality. In 2018, the Allamakee County quota was 3700 antlerless and 861 remained unharvested at the end of the season. In 2019 they had a 3800 allocated and 333 remained. In 2020 they are again at 3800 with 1139 remaining. If we need to adjust the quotas for antlerless, or implement quotas for bucks, that is the proper management procedure--not limiting the caliber of the weapon used to hunt.

Perhaps we'd meet all of our quotas if we eliminated caliber restrictions... but we probably wouldn't. Limiting the caliber the way we do in Iowa is simply arbitrary, antiquated, and ineffective.

If not for organizations like the IFC we would be stuck with these horrible laws forever. Thank God they're making progress.

Proper herd management and the most fertile land in the country have made Iowa the whitetail paradise that it is today. Proper herd management has nothing to do with arbitrary caliber restrictions and everything to do with effective quotas, season dates, and favoring residents over tourists.



I'd wager that nearly none of us are 'hunting' a deer in any meaningful sense. Not many folks are out there stalking deer with homemade longbows. They're sitting in tree stands over known paths they've scouted with cameras, that lead to food plots they've planted, with zero risk and minimal effort.




There is no appreciable difference in skill between the hunter who harvests a deer from 300 yards away with his .30-06 and the hunter who harvests the deer from 20 yards while sitting in his tree stand over the path to the soybean food plot with his brand new Bowtech Reckoning 38. Hunting is hunting, my friend.

Haha... Nathan Gibson?

"Horrible laws".... same laws that Iowa has had for decades.

You say you moved here recently?

Crying that you have to use use a 450 instead of grandpas 30-30.

I don’t buy any of it and I'm sick of people trying to change it.

 

[hillrunner]

There is no appreciable difference in skill between the hunter who harvests a deer from 300 yards away with his .30-06 and the hunter who harvests the deer from 20 yards while sitting in his tree stand over the path to the soybean food plot with his brand new Bowtech Reckoning 38. Hunting is hunting, my friend.

Lol, considering the fact that the food plot is still there regardless of weapon, I'd say there's a pretty big difference. Do you bow hunt?

 

[Arec]

Haha... Nathan Gibson?

"Horrible laws".... same laws that Iowa has had for decades.

You say you moved here recently?

Crying that you have to use use a 450 instead of grandpas 30-30.

I don’t buy any of it and I'm sick of people trying to change it.

There are certainly people crying but to me it seems like the ones crying are not the ones trying to improve the laws, they're the ones trying to stop them from being improved. Regardless, we are all hunters and can make common cause in achieving the objective of maintaining our quality herd.

Lol, considering the fact that the food plot is still there regardless of weapon, I'd say there's a pretty big difference. Do you bow hunt?

Yes, I bow hunt. I prefer to bow hunt as most passionate hunters do (at least in my circles). But I don't consider myself any more accomplished when I take a buck at 25 yards under my stand with my bow than I do when I take one at 300 yards with my rifle.

 

[Falldreams]

My argument is that caliber has negligible effect on herd quality. In 2018, the Allamakee County quota was 3700 antlerless and 861 remained unharvested at the end of the season. In 2019 they had a 3800 allocated and 333 remained. In 2020 they are again at 3800 with 1139 remaining. If we need to adjust the quotas for antlerless, or implement quotas for bucks, that is the proper management procedure--not limiting the caliber of the weapon used to hunt.

Perhaps we'd meet all of our quotas if we eliminated caliber restrictions... but we probably wouldn't. Limiting the caliber the way we do in Iowa is simply arbitrary, antiquated, and ineffective.

If not for organizations like the IFC we would be stuck with these horrible laws forever. Thank God they're making progress.

Proper herd management and the most fertile land in the country have made Iowa the whitetail paradise that it is today. Proper herd management has nothing to do with arbitrary caliber restrictions and everything to do with effective quotas, season dates, and favoring residents over tourists.



I'd wager that nearly none of us are 'hunting' a deer in any meaningful sense. Not many folks are out there stalking deer with homemade longbows. They're sitting in tree stands over known paths they've scouted with cameras, that lead to food plots they've planted, with zero risk and minimal effort.




There is no appreciable difference in skill between the hunter who harvests a deer from 300 yards away with his .30-06 and the hunter who harvests the deer from 20 yards while sitting in his tree stand over the path to the soybean food plot with his brand new Bowtech Reckoning 38. Hunting is hunting, my friend.

You sir with all due respect, are quite obviously lacking significant experience and knowledge in the world of deer hunting across this country. Almost every single state in America that maintains a legitimate huntable population of whitetail deer has seen a downward trend in overall quality. The least effected of all these states would be take a guess.....yes Iowa. Why??? Unlike every other deer hunting state that has been crippled or slowly dying, Iowa has maintained better overall deer hunting regulations to keep the quality it is known for. It is pure ignorance, GREED and laziness to even think that high powers will not effect our great deer hunting state.....pure and simple!!! What should we legalize next after high powers??? To try and compare a hunter attempting to kill a deer with a bow over a food plot to a guy toting a high powered rifle around is the worst arguement I’ve heard in I don’t know when. Really man???