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Non Res Landowner Permits, may be on the Table:

Re: Non Res Landowner Permits, may be on the Table

Guys,

The IA DNR, and their management, has nothing to do with IA's quality hunting. IA has big deer due to low people population and very low hunting pressure across the board in every season.
IA provides 3 any sex tags to resident landowners, permits party hunting, and has late season rifle hunts. The previous are hardly in the interest of QDM, and doesn't include the many farmers who shoot countless deer every year due to not liking the deer pop.
In a states like PA, NY, MI, etc., the herd will never be managed to provide opportunities like the mid-west due to too many hunters. People are concentrated on each coast leaving the mid-west unpopulated which of course translates into low hunting pressure.
Lastly, why doesn't the IBA make issue about party hunting?? I think NR's with an almost guaranteed doe tag, shooting a buck with the resident neighbors tag is a larger threat than a few more bow hunters, or a few hundred NR landowners who are restricted to their land.
Also, for those residents who don't own land, what's the difference who have to secure permission from, a resident or NR landowner? Permission still must be acquired and you might find access easier from a NR who would love a good resident hunter to monitor his property.
With all due respect it seems to me the IBA fights to have the best time to shoot a trophy, the rut, a resident activity.
 
Re: Non Res Landowner Permits, may be on the Table

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Lastly, why doesn't the IBA make issue about party hunting??

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probably because party hunting is the law of the land. the majority of iowa hunters are family groups, that party hunt, always have, always will. there are load of people who cheat the system of party hunting, but, if it weren't for party hunting, iowa's deer herd would be out of control. party hunting shotgunners are the ones who take the most deer per season. shotgunners out number all other hunters, to take them on (if they were to get organized) would be a total failure
 
Re: Non Res Landowner Permits, may be on the Table

Tee,

I can appreciate the party hunt, in PA hunting with family and driving deer is tradition. But, those involved shoot a buck or doe and use THEIR tag, not someone elses. NR's are killing an aweful lot of bucks using that huge loophole in IA that noone seems to address.
 
Re: Non Res Landowner Permits, may be on the Table

Back 40,

I do believe that certain IA regulations do contribute to the quality of the deer herd in Iowa. It appears that Missouri is not thought of as a prime whitetail destination even though it has better overall habitat and although a higher population than IA, not drastically. Post-rut gun seasons in IA versus rut gun seasons, shotguns (although of a lesser degree with recent barrel improvements) versus centerfire rifles are two things which do differentiate IA from MO, as an example.

I will not discuss the population concentration in the eastern states since quite honestly I do not have any first hand experience to go by. I will say that I appreciate your comments concerning it and would guess that I have no real appreciation for it's impact on the quality of hunting in your areas.

As for the earlier comment about party hunting, I personally would love to see it banned.
 
Re: Non Res Landowner Permits, may be on the Table

i agree. i would LOOOVE to find a way to make the party hunt, a resident privledge ONLY.
 
Re: Non Res Landowner Permits, may be on the Table

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The IA DNR, and their management, has nothing to do with IA's quality hunting.

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I have to respectfully disagree here. While I admit that I think some of our regulations are happenstance more than they are designed to produce the effect we have, they are nevertheless a real factor. We do not have a gun season during the rut, unlike Minnesota, Wisconsin and Missouri. All neighboring states that if you are looking at the amount of habitat available and deer populations should wipe us out in terms of quality bucks. Granted all of those states produce very nice deer every year, but I do not see as much of a "gold rush" to get to those states. Also, no bucks can be taken via legal rifle hunting here and I am sure that saves the skin of more than a few of them.

[ QUOTE ]
IA provides 3 any sex tags to resident landowners

[/ QUOTE ] FYI, I am a landowner and I have had three buck tags a year for at least the last three years and whereas I could have taken 9 bucks, I have shot 2 bucks total. I could have shot a bunch more, I just didn't. Bear in mind that just being able to get the tags doesn't mean folks are using them all up per se.

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has late season rifle hunts

[/ QUOTE ] True, for does only though, which is in line with QDM principles. In fact after my son, my friend and I are finished this weekend there should be three fewer "baldies" roaming the woods.
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[ QUOTE ]
Lastly, why doesn't the IBA make issue about party hunting??

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I don't see it as a big deal, when it is not being abused.
 
Re: Non Res Landowner Permits, may be on the Table

[ QUOTE ]
Lastly, why doesn't the IBA make issue about party hunting??

[/ QUOTE ]
If there was one issue I would rather correct or address it would be party hunting.(personal opinion)

You would have better luck killing & butchering a cow in India than getting rid of party hunting in Ia. When the IBA brings up the subject we are absolutely crucified. Some states allow feeders, some allow dogs, in Ia it's party hunting.

Personally, I would trade 3,000 more nr tags for no party hunting anyday.( I'm sure I'll regret this comment)

One last statement, when you figure 98% of the IBA members are residents & 95% are bowhunters, don't you think it's prudent to somewhat protect their interests.How long would any organization last if they didn't support their members.
 
Re: Non Res Landowner Permits, may be on the Table

"You would have better luck killing & butchering a cow in India than getting rid of party hunting in Ia."

Now that was funny - I wish it wasn't true but nevertheless funny.
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Re: Non Res Landowner Permits, may be on the Table

This NR landowner topic will continue to be debated I am sure, and I am already on record as opposing giving automatic any sex tags to NR landowners. Having said that lets not throw out a red herring on the issue of party hunting with NR tags. I don't have the actual numbers but I'm sure that someone here can come up with them. As memory serves me there are 2000 or 3000 NR antlerless tags issued, with 35% going to bow hunters which can't be used for party hunting. That leaves 1950 tags to spread out for both shotgun and the late muzzle loader seasons. Only the shotgun hunters can party hunt so lets just say 1200 go to them. The vast majority of these will be hunters with friends or family groups, who just want to hunt in Iowa because of the family and friends. They are more concerned with the hunting, companionship, and fun than with killing MR Big. So of those 1200 tags for shotgun hunters lets just say 400 are the die hard buck hunters that only want to use up someone else's buck tag for themself. This leaves 400 bucks state wide at risk to these NR tag "cheaters". With party hunting and driving chances that virtually all of these 400 bucks would be killed by some one in the party even if not by the NR. Take this one step futher and say that 99 of those 400 only were killed because of the NR being able to use another's tag. I think we can handle 1 per county. I realize that these numbers aren't real but I hope this example points out how small and insignificant this part of the issue is. As others have said the big issue with NR licenses increases including landowners becomes one of access rather than out of staters comming in to steal our bucks. To grant the NR landowner status would only encourage some realtors and others to come up with schemes that might create 10 or 20 or more landowners for a couple hundred acres. Then word spreads, farms are bought for insane amounts of money because it can now be spread between 20 hunters, property values go up, taxes go up, and not many redidents can buy land now because of the inflated values. All of us who live in SE Iowa know that $2500.00 an acre is insane for ravines and timber brush, and multiflora that really won't even make good pasture just because it holds deer. In 1991 we tried to sell my mother's farm and could not get a bid over $200.00 per acre for 300 acres. In 1994 I bought 140 acres and the Iowa DNR bought the rest for $300.00 an acre. Three years later 100 acres that adjoined me brought $850.00 an acre and with in the last year the same type of land with in a couple of miles brought $2000.00 an acre all because of recreational usage for deer hunting. I am now priced completely out of the market to try to add any acres, because I can't justify it or make it cash flow, so I am done except that I am sure my property taxes will go up in the near future. I believe that if we grant NRs landowner statis this will only get worse and local access also diminish.
 
Re: Non Res Landowner Permits, may be on the Table

It is sad but true. Just pure population of humans has an effect on the quality of everything, especially nature. I came here from MI. which has a large deer pop, if you can believe the Officials. The State also has over 9-million people. Four hundred and fifty thousand Bow Hunters. Around eight-hundred thousand gun hunters. I moved up north to live near the Huron Nat. Forest in Mich. I had a hundred square miles of public forest,swamps,and clearcuts stretching just outside my back door. The first season up there I rifle hunted. I saw a few deer, running for their lives, and then very little. I stopped in to the local DNR office to ask why hunting seemed so sparse. They told me their estimates showed that 80% of all the bucks, thats male deer of all sizes,,were killed by the 4th day of the gun season! One of the reasons I came to Iowa. Other reason,,I married an Iowa girl! Also,,I must agree that a big factor in quality hunting is the guns during the RUT activity. MI. has the guns blazing right in the middle off it.
 
Re: Non Res Landowner Permits, may be on the Table

Thanks for the informative responses and keeping it civil. I learned a few things.
 
Re: Non Res Landowner Permits, may be on the Table

"One last statement, when you figure 98% of the IBA members are residents & 95% are bowhunters, don't you think it's prudent to somewhat protect their interests.How long would any organization last if they didn't support their members. "


The MN DNR has been around forever.
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Re: Non Res Landowner Permits, may be on the Table

One last remark from me. There is a very interesting article in this months north american Whitetaail magazine about Pike County Ill. by a guy who lives there. He goes into detail as to how Outfitters, and Non-Rsidents have changed things. Just as Bowmaker said, the land prices skyrocketed, and access for the residents shrank. This article says the deer numbers ,even buck numbbers, have stayed up though. He admits, few want to shoot does. A very interesting look at what could happen here.
 
Re: Non Res Landowner Permits, may be on the Table

Good point Loneranger, I read that article too. The thing that really stood out to me is how much things have changed there in a relatively short span of time, only about 15-20 years. A dominant factor was the macro level change in land use in that county in terms of the brush/timber ground not being pastured to hogs and cattle anymore. That led to much improved habitat for wildlife, deer primarily, and the course was set...

Just think what the Iowa "deer hunting landscape" might look like here in 5, 10, 15 years with big potential factors like:
Dramatically higher corn prices due to ethanol needs leading to much more land "under plow" v. reserved for wildlife or general conservation.

A relatively high percentage land owned and maintained for recreational purposes v. strictly farming.

Higher deer populations leading to some sort of disease outbreak affecting overall populations.

Although I am not an alarmist and I am not necessarily predicting these things, there are some possibilities to be considered. Just like Pike County, we didn't always have the quality and quantity of deer hunting here in Iowa that we do now. I remember having to put in for a doe tag and there not being very many of them given out, now there are thousands of them every year. Who's to say for sure that for whatever reason things couldn't change back over the course of time.
 
Re: Non Res Landowner Permits, may be on the Table

[ QUOTE ]
Lastly, why doesn't the IBA make issue about party hunting??

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll give up shotgun season party hunting, when they pry it from my cold, dead hands!
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Re: Non Res Landowner Permits, may be on the Table

From my experience in Buffalo County Wisconsin it would ruin hunting in Iowa for the average hunter.

Wisconsin does not limit the number of non-residents hunters. Therefore guides and outfitters have leased up a third of the county to sell $4000 hunts. The other 1/3 of the county is leased by non-residents and resident hunters and the other 1/3 is hunted and owned by locals, but unless your blood their is not any chance you would ever get permission to hunt on private land.

I look at Iowa and its identical in terms of habitat, but not even close in terms of management. Tags are limited to non-residents, which prevents wide scale leasing and hunter access is generally good.

If non-resident landowners get any sex tags, I can gaurantee you that any land for sale will be locked up by non-resident landowners. Many local hunters will no longer have access to traditional hunting grounds and those left will be stumbling over each other on public land trying to find a place to hunt.
 
Re: Non Res Landowner Permits, may be on the Table

The issue has never been Residents vs. Non-residents, and it never should be. The struggle every year will be how to protect and preserve the quality of deer hunting in Iowa. Our state legislators are continually pressured by insurance companies, outfitters and most detrimentally the misinformed public, to make adverse changes that will undermine this common goal of all Iowa deer hunters.

This debate is without a doubt multifaceted, as there are many sides and many valid arguments have been made. The bottom line is that Iowa deer are a state owned resource, to be managed by the state to whatever end its residents see fit. Last I checked simply owning land in Iowa does not grant you the right to vote. Unless you have the right to vote for representation at the state level you will not be represented, and should not be.

Every non-resident on this site that owns land in Iowa purchased that land with the complete understanding that they would not be able to buy any-sex tags every year, and that they would not be able to vote in an Iowa election as long as they reside in another state. Some resident landowners may have had to move out of state due to their career or other lifestyle choices, and this is perhaps an unfortunate consequence after the fact. We all have different priorities; if hunting Iowa deer every year is one of your priorities, then moving to Iowa should also be.
We will gladly welcome you to the deer woods anytime.
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If you are unable to relocate and hunting conditions in your home state are less than desirable, I would strongly suggest that you organize and fight tooth and nail to make the necessary changes to improve your lot. That’s all we are trying to do here.
 
Re: Non Res Landowner Permits, may be on the Table

their is a saying in the stock market, buy the rumour, sell the news. what this means is this, most speculators are already in Iowa , they own multiple farms, they are waiting and hoping for a change, in the meantime land goes up and up and up. What a country , buy hay field and some hickory tree, plant some corn and make a million bucks . Here is the thing, once that announcement is made price will go to 3-4k per acre so fast ur head will spin, but guess what, now you have a dilemma, now i can buy land in illinois , wisconsin, for the same price, no more deals . right there things start to even out . now everything is equal. but today Joe farmer is already scratching his head in disbelief over nr buyers who want to pay him 2k an acre so they can sit in a tree all day. He is already 80 years old, he knows he is going to die on the farm, thing is he has 5 kids, and they have 5 kids, here is the dilemma, 3 of his kids and 3 of their kids are unemployed no jobs, 2 of them are in rehab, what does he do? none of them want to farm, does he sell the farm to a newyorker collect 500k and know that he is providing for his family , or does he say " nah i think i will hold on to it because even though i have not been deer hunting in 30 years, heck i havent even been into my 200 acres of timber in 40 years, because i know the 5 guys from des moines like to come down for 2 days a year and kill deer. Now you tell me, does anyone give a crap about anyone but themselves. I see all the issues, i really do, but, i have 35 year old neighbors taking meth and playing video games all night living on their grandfathers farm wondring what he is going to do when the granfather dies. and the farm gets auctioned off. Of course then you have a nr landowner come in , buys the farm, gives the granfather life rights to the farm and lets the grandson stay in the house, pays the grandson to watch over the farm, but somehow, nr landowners are bad, that is not even mentioning all the other contributions nr landowners make, This is alot of rambling, however u go spend some time in south central Iowa and you tell me if this isnt true. and for all this, i cant at least freeze my butt off in a tree for 2 weeks a year in the hopes that Mr. big walks by or at the very least kill a million does every year,
 
Re: Non Res Landowner Permits, may be on the Table

In answer to your question why---give the nr landowner anything? I would think it would be better to allow the nr landowner to acquire tags and harvest a couple of deer than to have them consider leasing their land to an outfitter and open the door to a much higher harvest of bucks,mainly because we can't hunt on land we own.
 
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