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Outfitter coming in on our land!

OLETOM

OLETOM

New Member
Just got some bad news last night from my hunting buddy. We knew this guy was looking at the land but din't know what we should do. Well now we know. It will cost us over $3000 to keep out great hunting spot. You residents are worried about us non residents leasing land. Well here is a case where a guy from Iowa is coming in to lease our farm out from under us. We have never had to pay for land in the past but it looks like we will have to pay in order to keep this land to hunt in the future. I guess this resident want to run a couple hunts on this land for his clients. It is some unbelievable land. So my buddy and I are really concidering on going after this land. We only bow hunt it so we are going to ask a couple other close friends that gun hunt if they would be willing to go in on the lease with us to keep this land. We've told the farmer in the past that we don't care if his relative hunt it, we just want to be able to bow hunt it with out having to worry about anyone else coming in and screwing you over while on stand. It seem that money is all this guy wants now. I guess he is even willing to send his kid to the state land or other relatives to hunt just to lease the land out. What is a guy to do? We are thinking about offering him $4000 to not let this outfitter in. I can only see what would happen next. The outfitter would start leasing more land around this farm untill we have no where to hunt.

WHat would you do? We have a couple other farms in mind but non that are this good!

????
 
Welcome to the future of whitetail hunting in Iowa. If you can come up with the $3000, I would go and tell him you'll pay it and do at least a five-year contract. You can make a good sales pitch to him, he knows you and the others will be coming in from out of state with nothing to lose by mistreating his land, etc. I'm sure you can convice him he'd rather have you than them.

It sucks but what do you do? The best stuff is going to cost ya, that's the trend.
 
My sympathies, I don't know what else to say, this is a decision that only you can make. I am sur ethat most of the rest of us will have to make this decision ourselves in the not so distant future.
 
OLETOM,
Don't you run a outfitting service? Not trying to start anything just saw the www.3riversguide.com in your profile. The link no longer works but about two months ago I took a look and thought you were running a service. Just a question.

Go Early Stay Late... Limb Chicken
 
That I do, But I am not going to be running hunts in Iowa except if it were for turkey. I enjoy my bow hunting way to much to have time to run other people around so they can shoot the deer that I ahave put so many hours into scouting. Wisconsin is a different story. Over there our family owns a ton of land and I have the opourtunity to take a couple poeple out (return clients mostly) all I have to do for these guys now is book a couple rooms and they do the rest.

I will load a picture of a buck from WI that was taken off the farm 2 yrs ago. 185 3/8" typ. (gonna try it on the test site first.)

I love hunting Iowa and I asked my buddy about this and told him, if we did lease this land the only thing I would concider guiding for in Iowa would be Turkey. And now that the licence on that went up for out of state people I can't justify that either. Whitetails - I just can't see doing it in Iowa when I want to hunt from the stands that I have hung and spent time scouting for that trophy whitetail.

As for my web site - It is being reconstructed as we speak, It is gonna feature Turkey, Deer, Walleye and Muskie fishing all in Wisconsin. The guiding that I do mainly is Turkey and Walleye, and the deer hunter that I take out are typically people that I have Known for a while or have taken fishing in the past and they want to try a new area for whitetails. I do this guideing as a hobbie not a business. I think that my wife would have nothing to do with me if I was a full time guide, she has all she can do with the hunting that I do now.

LimbChicken - the walleye are starting to turn on pretty good right now over here!
 
Okay - I think I have it. Here is that WI buck...


uploadedJM-buck.JPG


[This message has been edited by iowawhitetail (edited 04-02-2002).]
 
That is one hell of a buck. That is good the "bite" is starting up there. It hasn't been worth a hoot around here. My dad was heading up to the Rainey (sp?) River but decided not to go do to the conditions. They hammered them last year up there.

Heading to the great Cornhusker state this weekend to try to bag a gobbler with a bow. Will post the stories of a bird with a brain the size of a pea giving me my yearly dose of "I'm going to stay out here at 32 yards and gobble my fool head off at you and then walk away gobbling into the sunset never to be seen again".

I AM a glutton for punishment!

Go Early, Stay Late... Limb Chicken
 
Super buck OLETOM, is he yours or a friends? I understand where you're coming from, lots of land around my parents place has gone under lease to a hunting club and it's irritating as hell since I hunted there for years and then all of a sudden you can't. I don't blame the farmer, he's lost most of his farm and a couple wives in the process due to financial situations. I had to just move on, fortunately I moved onto better ground. I hope things work out for you. By the way, what's your fee for walley fishing?
smile.gif
Nothing like the taste of Big Greens!

Limb Chicken - you sure are giving the NE ostritch credit, brain the size of a pea, but I know where yer coming from, what kind of male animal hears a "female" (aka hunter) that wants him and he just sits there yelling at her? I guess yer right by saying that if they are dumb how smart are we when we get "outsmarted" by them?
smile.gif
How about a 30 yard pin? That'd take care of him hanging at 32 yards!

muddy
 
OLETOM we went thru the same thing you are going thru about 5yrs ago. When all they can see is enough money to pay the taxes and maybe a farm payment it would be hard to pass up. But the thing that some are worried about and probably haven't thought of is liability. What if they would fall out of a tree and be disabled for the rest of their life who would be liable since they recieved payment for a service. What would the insurance cost them to be completely covered, that they wouldn't lose everything because of an accident. I hunt the loess hills area and a lot of the ground has been leased and not affordable for a average working mans wages.
 
Personally I would never pay to have access to land for deer hunting. At this point there is still alot of land to be had from an honest days work or two and a handshake. This leasing thing is going to get to be a big thing and then something will happen to make it all go away. I don't see how the outfitters will control the herd enough to keep the deer from overpopulating and ruining the hunting. When the next hotspot comes along they'll move out of Iowa and on to the next state. Then we'll have our hunting back and have to rebuild our awesome herd again. I'm sure a few farmers will get taken in the process and will realize that it wasn't as great as it seemed. If the Farm Bureau and the politicians have their way we won't have to worry about the outfitters ruining the herd; there won't be any left anyway! God forbid this state ever produces a world record. Enough rambling, I'm tired and probably not making much sense. Good luck. Maggs
 
KPM is right as far as liability. Farmers here (ND) are jumping on the band wagon to lease their land to outfitters, waterfoulers and soon deer hunters. Starting to see more guided hunts now. Some land owners will get burn on not having laibility insurance. Hope they don't lose the farm over it. Can't say I blame the farmer for wanting the money. The local hunters in my area don't seem to respect the land or the land owners and it is adding fuel to the fire. The locals blame the farmer's greed, the outfitters and the non resident hunters for their hunting loses. They need to change their ways and show the farmer that they do respect the land and farmer. I am a local and have no problem finding a lot of private land to hunt, trap and shed hunt on. Respect and apperciation still goes a long ways in obtaining permission.

Tim
 
Any landowner who leases land to hunters should insist that he be listed on an additionaly Insured policy it isn't that expensive. Leasing will definately be the trend for the larger tracts of land.
The days of just knocking on doors and hunting are gone in our area ALBIA/CENTERVILLE .
 
Ahh yes, I know this feeling well, I would agree that this is a trend that only figures to increase. This subject ought to spark a healthy exchange of ideas!

For what is worth, I have been confronted with this scenario myself several times over the last few years. As recently as this past weekend we were scouting property we use to hunt in southern Iowa for turkeys and were dismayed to find out how much ground is now under lease. ( I am welcome to come back and shoot all the turkeys I want for $350 apiece, right where we use to shoot them for free.) My thoughts, in no paricular order are:

You can't fault a landowner for accepting the money, I sure can't say I wouldn't take the money if I was a farmer, particularly in a down farm economy. So there is no use getting mad at the landowners.

You can't fault the person who wants to hunt there and is willing to pay for it. They probably love to hunt as much as you do. So there is no use getting mad at the interlopers. Many Iowans travel out of state and hunt with outfitters and never think twice about the "average guy" that use to hunt that land for free years ago.

I tend to agree that all else equal, the landowner would prefer to deal with a "known quantity" so I wouldn't feel the need to up the ante right off the bat. Talk to the landowner and let him know that you would like to continue hunting there. He may make you a deal better than what you are thinking.

People in other states have paid for the right to hunt for years and we have had a pretty good situation here in Iowa.

Long story short, you have a decision to make. The "market" says that there is a value associated with hunting on that land, now you have to ask yourself how much it is worth to you and go from there. Getting mad at folks, and I am not saying that you are, only that others I have heard from on this subject do tend to get all riled up, solves nothing.

Looking back at what I wrote, I guess I am in the "acceptance" phase of the grief process! haha. I too am in the process of trying to put a value on the right to hunt certain places, it's not easy, especially when we have been "spoiled" for so many years with relatively free, excellent hunting.

Good luck.
 
I always thought that it would be nice to quite my job and do something outdoor related, but it looks like I will need to have a job to do what I enjoy! For $3,000 a year, you and your buddies should buy place to hunt! With the interest rates the way they are now, you guys could make a pretty good investment. Good hunting land does not always make good farm land, so you would not have to pay as much!
 
smokepole,

I agree that hey should look at buying instead of leasing. If they found a marginal tract of land that would generate some income and they had to subsidize it out of pocket to cover the balance of the mortgage they would still be money head over a lease. Leave a place for your grandbaby to hunt in 50 years.

ironwood

[This message has been edited by ironwood (edited 04-03-2002).]
 
As I grew up in Wisconsin, I literally had the run of about 1000 acres. The farmers and nearby landowners would always say "yes" to a neigbhor that knocked and asked permission to hunt. However, about 15-16 years ago, that started changing, slowly. One by one, the landowners started closing off their land to everyone and either started asking for help with chores or leasing. Since I was young and in college, I couldn't afford to do that and eventually lost my spots to hunt.

Fortunately, my parents bought a parcel about 13 years ago as a getaway spot and it turned out to be a pretty nice chunk of hunting land. We got in just as land values started to climb with the better economy and the demand for hunting land. Back then, you could find land for as little as $400 an acre for larger parcels, while 40's were going for $800-1000 an acre in some spots. The value of that piece has at least tripled in the past 12 years. A 40 acre chunk of good hunting land here in Wisconsin now goes for a minimum of 2k...and is about 3k or more for a 40 with some good hardwoods with building spots.

The same thing has happened in Illinois in the past 5-10 years. Now that Iowa's reputation is getting out, I would think the same could happen there. My advice is to bite the bullet and either solidify your hunting spot by buying some land or by teaming up with a few buddies and start paying for a lease.

If you don't, you could eventually be left without a hunting spot.
 
Steve Hanson, Not entirely impossible. I had a buddy knock on 5 doors last fall and he got 5 yes's. This was in Appanoose County. He was from out-of-state and knew none of them. One farmer even offered the use of his own ATV to take his stands out there!

I'm still listening though as I will never hunt public land again there after my experiences. I have 1 point and can draw zone 5 or a couple others. I have been researching where the least outfitting is taking place as I will be knocking on doors.
 
My comment was on larger tracts of land probaly 200 acre or more. When I leave my house in Unionville IA and drive to my farm near Albia. I know most of the landowners along the way most of these are leased or owned by people for hunting.Every week their are offers to lease land in the local classifeid ads. Their is still the potentail to trade work for hunting privledges. Land values in this area now reflect the value of hunting 50/50 mix of timber and tillable will cost 600-850 an acre which is generally about 200 an acre more than any income would generate to cover the mortage+ taxes. I think that the Area west of I35 is still less likely to be leased.
 
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