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perfect storm - nr landowner lawsuits

If I were a non-resident (or resident) fighting for the additional tags I would think about the what might actually happen if I got my wish to hunt Iowa every year. Arguably , there are NR’s interested in hunting Iowa who don’t because it takes three years to get a tag, making it difficult to maintain landowner relationships, become efficient at hunting a particular area, plant food plots, etc. If the number of available tags doubles, and that group of guys decide it is worth applying because they can come here every 1 or 2 years, the denominator increases.

Now also consider that outfitting activity will increase. Outfitters have more money to spend advertising. The number of videos featuring Iowa hunts grow because everyone who produces hunting videos can come to our state and shoot a trophy for the cover. After repeated exposure to outfitters at hunting shows, magazine ads, and hunting videos, that pimp Iowa, John Doe from WI (who never hunted Iowa before) thinks it sounds like a great idea and gets into the lottery in May.

Fast forward 5 years and we have 12,000 NR’s complaining because they can only bow hunt Iowa every three years. Especially upset are the NRLO’s who bought land 5 years ago because it was going to be much so much easier to draw. That would be a lose-lose for everyone except realtors and outfitters.
 
If I were a non-resident (or resident) fighting for the additional tags I would think about the what might actually happen if I got my wish to hunt Iowa every year. Arguably , there are NR’s interested in hunting Iowa who don’t because it takes three years to get a tag, making it difficult to maintain landowner relationships, become efficient at hunting a particular area, plant food plots, etc. If the number of available tags doubles, and that group of guys decide it is worth applying because they can come here every 1 or 2 years, the denominator increases.

Now also consider that outfitting activity will increase. Outfitters have more money to spend advertising. The number of videos featuring Iowa hunts grow because everyone who produces hunting videos can come to our state and shoot a trophy for the cover. After repeated exposure to outfitters at hunting shows, magazine ads, and hunting videos, that pimp Iowa, John Doe from WI (who never hunted Iowa before) thinks it sounds like a great idea and gets into the lottery in May.

Fast forward 5 years and we have 12,000 NR’s complaining because they can only bow hunt Iowa every three years. Especially upset are the NRLO’s who bought land 5 years ago because it was going to be much so much easier to draw. That would be a lose-lose for everyone except realtors and outfitters.

very good and valid points. I agree 100%
 
I would participate in 1 NR for every 100 acres. Where do I sign up.
How about, 1 R instead of 1 NR for every 100 acres?

How about, it ain't broke and it don't need fixin. Thanks for fueling my fire again. Same story, different year. I have nothing against any NR hunter or landowner, in fact, I hunt with some almost every year. What I am against is any increase in NR tags and any changes to further benefit the NR landowner. This reasons are pretty well stated already so I won't bother repeating any of them.
 
Does anyone know how many NRLO's there are?

I see numbers like 10,000 or 20,000+ being thrown out, no way is the number that high.

99 counties in Iowa x 20 NRLO/county = 2000. Maybe, are there even 20/county?
 
I have asked about the number of nrlo before too.It would make the impact of nrlo easier to evaluate.I also am interested in how many acres are leased both by nr and residents.That gobbles up land access very fast. This could really effect some areas for guys tryiny to find a place to hunt
 
There doesn't seem to be much data on tillable vs. non-tillable ground ownership. From the FOI website:rolleyes:, 19% of Iowa farmland was owned by non-residents in 2002. 2007 numbers show it has increased to 21%. That is about 6.5 Million out of 31 M acres. Again, this is for farmland only, but if recreational ground is close to the same percentage, that is a big number.

There were 88,400 farms in Iowa in 2007.
 
treerat. Wouldnt that include all land tillable or not? I suspect rec land is in that total also.Still wonder what the number of owners actually is.There is probably a portion of that is owned by corporations.
 
This has already played out in Illinois and they can't turn back despite the damage to their deer herd and the loss of access for resident hunters. Here is an article published several years ago in an Outdoor Life magazine from Outdoor writer Don Higgins who resides in Illinois:

States Should Limit
Nonresident Hunters

By Don Higgins

"Tim Fulmer remembers the days when he freely walked the woods near his home in Pike County, Ill. Hunting, fishing and trapping were a part of life, and Fulmer was lucky enough to live in an outdoorsman's paradise where these interests could be carried out to their fullest.
Around 1990 changes started taking place that eventually ruined and even ended the outdoor experience for many Pike County residents. Word of the big whitetail bucks being taken by area hunters spread. This in turn caused hunters outside Illinois to begin showing up to try their luck at
tagging a giant whitetail buck. The influx of nonresidents began slowly, but as each season passed, the trend grew, spawning a new industry in the area: outfitting. In fact, from 1991 through 1996, the number of nonresident archery deer hunters rose more than 400 percent in Illinois and more than doubled again between 1996 and 2000. Many of these hunters ended up in Pike. Before the 1990s had ended, the county stood as the perfect example of why states must limit nonresidents.

Vital Management Tool
One of the most important methods of wildlife management is regulating harvest by controlling the number of hunters. If for no other reason, nonresidents need to be limited as a management tool to ensure the proper harvest of game. Once again, Pike County serves as an example of how things can go wrong. Throngs of nonresident hunters show up there in search of bucks with large antlers. Many of these hunters aren't interested in taking does. Tim Fulmer has seen the result of this practice firsthand. He estimates the buck-to-doe ratio in his area to be at least 20 does for every antlered buck. How can the blame for this situation be traced to nonresident hunters? It's a matter of access and game selection. The competition for land has spawned a leasing frenzy. Local conservation officers estimate that as much as half of Pike County is commercially leased. Some outfitters have leased property totaling in the tens of thousands of acres. This land is off-limits to all but paying clients. Thus, the does are allowed to live and reproduce in virtual sanctuaries that are closed to local hunters, many of whom would be content to put some venison in the freezer.

Too Little, Too Late
The Illinois Department of Natural Resources (DNR) recognized these problems and in 2001 enacted several regulations to address them. Outfitters are now regulated and must submit a written management plan to the DNR. Nonresident archery deer hunters are now limited to 12,843 tags, the number of nonresident archery permits sold in 2000, the last year of over-the-counter sales. Like many resident whitetail hunters, Tim Fulmer sees this as "too little, too late." The damage has already been done, and these measures won't correct a bad situation. Professional game managers have had virtually no control over large areas for too many years. Besides management problems, unlimited nonresident access creates a host of social concerns. It turns prime hunting locations into playgrounds for the wealthy. Leasing, outfitting and the purchase of land for expensive, exclusive hunting all work to squeeze out the average, local hunter.

A House Divided
Those who oppose limits are often hunters with the financial resources to hunt out of state or people looking to make money from them. Pike County has become a battleground where families now stand divided. Fulmer has a sister and brother-in-law with whom he rarely speaks. They have chosen to lease their land to an outfitter, thus closing it to friends and family. This is not uncommon. I've heard countless stories of divided families and longtime friends turned into enemies. Plenty of hunters have simply given up the sport because they lack a place to hunt. One argument of those who oppose limits is based on their freedoms as Americans. I simply ask, "Freedom to do what?" Freedom to end the outdoor experience for another person in his backyard so that you can show up to hunt for one week a year? What about the rights of the local man working a minimum-wage job who wants to put some meat on the table or introduce his children to the outdoors? Do we want a society where hunting is reserved for the wealthy, as it is in Europe? We owe it to the game we pursue and our fellow hunters to act responsibly. A big part of this responsibility falls to the people who make their homes in the areas we hunt as well as the professional game managers who make the regulations there. Cutting them out of the picture will only hurt wildlife. Limiting nonresident hunters is a necessary regulation with which we can all live."



Since this article was published Illinois has raised their NR tag quotas to over 25,000 and now NR tags are basically over the counter because there are more tags than applicants. Also the percentage of leased land in Pike County is way over 50%. I would bet that you could spend 30 days knocking on doors in Pike county Illinois and never find a place to hunt that you didn't have to pay to access. Then consider that in the last 5 years you hardly hear anything about deer hunting in Illinois because the quality has deminished. Now if you want quality hunting you have to try for Kansas or Iowa. It is too bad that Kansas is slowly following Illinois and making the same mistakes. The residents of Kansas are trying despirately to hold onto what they got but it may be too late. Iowa residents need to be on offense when it comes to stopping NR tag increases. Considering Iowa's limited wildlife habitat and only 2% of Iowa being public land we can't afford any increase in NR tags if we want our children to have any outdoor opportunities in Iowa.

If you read this article and still can't understand why Iowa residents are fighting increased NR tags or NRLO tags then you are too self serving to see what is best for Iowa's deer herd and what is best for the hunting heritage in Iowa. There is no question what will happen if there is any increase in NR tags. Decreased quality and decreased access. Just look at Illinois.
 
where the heck is a farmer going to go after he sells his land that he has lived on for 75 years. plenty of people will absolutely not sell their land away from their family .

Into a close rural town.

Have seen them doing it and they will continue
to do so.
 
You can all expect to lose more access and faster to outfitters and others who lease land than you will from nrlo's.Outfitters dont just provide hunting for nr hunters .
 
150, I have two R's who hunt my farm when I am not there. We have a great relationship. You obviously missed the point. Someone suggested giving NRLO annual tags in exchange for permitting 1 NR applicant hunt for every 100 acres. I commented I would sign up tomorrow.
 
150, I have two R's who hunt my farm when I am not there. We have a great relationship. You obviously missed the point. Someone suggested giving NRLO annual tags in exchange for permitting 1 NR applicant hunt for every 100 acres. I commented I would sign up tomorrow.


I second that ^^^. I also have to bring up something else.....

Not being able to get NRLO a tag every year hurts the local land around their farms. If I knew I could hunt every year, I would be able to manage the land better ie. food plots, tree planting, etc. This is all fine and good, but it is hard to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars a year if I can hunt it. Having all the land managed around the place you hunt is best in my eyes. imo
 
I second that ^^^. I also have to bring up something else.....

Not being able to get NRLO a tag every year hurts the local land around their farms. If I knew I could hunt every year, I would be able to manage the land better ie. food plots, tree planting, etc. This is all fine and good, but it is hard to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars a year if I can hunt it. Having all the land managed around the place you hunt is best in my eyes. imo
How do you figure deer not only survived, but flourished through the 70's, 80's, and 90's? We didn't have food plots to support deer and turkey through that time period. Admit that your motive in investing this money in land management is to grow antlers. You can do all this with the opportunity to hunt those antlers every three years, or invest your time and money in another state. I actually believe just the oppisite. I think the ever increasing sancutaries being created by both resident and nonresident landowners is producing the larger number of quality bucks. If everybody had the opportunity to hunt all of the land in Iowa; very few bucks would see four years of age.
 
150, I have two R's who hunt my farm when I am not there. We have a great relationship. You obviously missed the point. Someone suggested giving NRLO annual tags in exchange for permitting 1 NR applicant hunt for every 100 acres. I commented I would sign up tomorrow.
I believe that number was two nr's per 100 acres.
 
Cedar Creek.......I retract my last statement. I didn't mean it like that....but you are 100% correct in that the deer need areas to go with little to no hunting pressure, and second, they don't need the plots etc to live.

I guess what I mean is that it would be easier to find time to better the property even more for large deer.
 
If you read Iowaqdm post and know anything about deer hunting in other states then you know it is exactly what happened! I own land in iowa get there 3 times a year , let res shoot does during doe season, and could shoot a buck during shotgun season each year while I wait on my bow tag every three years. What is wrong with that? When the outfitters come in and all the 3.5 year olds are shot up you will wish it would have never changed. Find some locals to shoot your does for you, they will help you during shotgun season with tags and we will all have the great hunting we enjoy to share with our kids. The reason you bought land in Iowa was because it was affordable and has BIG BUCKS! Keep pushing this and those will both change!!
 
If you read Iowaqdm post and know anything about deer hunting in other states then you know it is exactly what happened! I own land in iowa get there 3 times a year , let res shoot does during doe season, and could shoot a buck during shotgun season each year while I wait on my bow tag every three years. What is wrong with that? When the outfitters come in and all the 3.5 year olds are shot up you will wish it would have never changed. Find some locals to shoot your does for you, they will help you during shotgun season with tags and we will all have the great hunting we enjoy to share with our kids. The reason you bought land in Iowa was because it was affordable and has BIG BUCKS! Keep pushing this and those will both change!!
Amen to that!
 
Believe me, I don't want to see anything bad happen to Iowa and the hunting. I would rather wait my turn and go video others each year and wait my turn, than hunt every year and slowly have the hunting dwindle down. Would I like to hunt it every year......dah!!!! but not if allowing me to do so will hurt the hunting overall.
 
Believe me, I don't want to see anything bad happen to Iowa and the hunting. I would rather wait my turn and go video others each year and wait my turn, than hunt every year and slowly have the hunting dwindle down. Would I like to hunt it every year......dah!!!! but not if allowing me to do so will hurt the hunting overall.

I think the simplest thing that most people just don't see because it is flat in front of their face is...

You can hunt it every year. You just might not be able to draw a buck tag for bow every year. You can still hunt bucks every year; some just don't seem to understand that.
 
and fyi, im not against nr hunters at all. I just don't want to see legislation passed on greed.

We are all hunters. I like to try and get along with everyone.

A lot of good discussion on this thread.
 
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