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Questions for the hunters...

Depends on your area and how much land you can manage. I live in, what others have told me, is a very poor area. I find young bucks dead and discarded or dead and not found, in ditches every year. Not to mention, I have 40 acres to hunt on. I know the neighborhood is not discriminating. Genetics gets in there too. I shot my oldest, biggest deer yet yr before last. He was 5 1/2 yrs old, tooth tested, yet scored around 145. I was happy,,he had outsmarted my neighborhood for 5 yrs. It is good to let them walk, but the nerve, proceedure, controling excitement, follow thru,,it takes to down an animal, needs to be practiced, or you get rusty. I know,,,,practice on the does,,,but that brings up the problem of too few deer, to shoot does, so is not always an easy decision on what to shoot.
 
cedar creek said:
I wish everyone would wait for a 170" buck. We would truly be the state of giant whitetail bucks!
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In that magic world- there really would be giants behind every tree. Everyone that hunts: new hunters, young buck slayers, "trophy hunters", meat hunters, etc would experience hunting out of this world amazing. If everyone passed 4.5's and younger, oh my gosh, every section would be covered up with tons of mature bucks no matter the pressure (the full array of scoring bucks but loads of mature bucks in any case). How amazing would that fairy-tale be?!?! Actually a few lucky neighborhoods I know that accomplish this with huge landowners or neighboring cooperation, TONS OF DISCIPLINE, knowledge & experience and those guys have some of the most exciting, awesome, well managed hunting I've ever seen or heard of. They are having a blast & I think more areas will go in that direction. Their neighbors sure love & appreciate it!!!
 
I believe there's only a small % of bucks out there that would make 170" regardless of age. Score is a plus but 160, 170 I really could care less as long as he's 4+ yrs old.

It would be unreal if every buck made it to 4yrs old.
 
Well put Skip, and it does not take as much land as some think to keep bucks around throughout their life.
 
There are 2 factors I consider when deciding whether to target a buck. Genetic potential and age. My goal is to kill mature bucks (5.5 yrs old or older) unless they have bad genetics. I really want to get the genetically superior bucks to 5.5 years old before hunting them. I'll pass a 180" 4.5 yr old but shoot a 3.5 year old buck with terrible genetics.
 
jjohnson said:
I believe there's only a small % of bucks out there that would make 170" regardless of age. Score is a plus but 160, 170 I really could care less as long as he's 4+ yrs old.

It would be unreal if every buck made it to 4yrs old.
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The biggest problem is most folks shooting bucks that "score well" that are not mature. I see it far more often that guys shooting on age unfortunately.... So many guys are whacking the 155" 3.5 year old that would have made 190" if he was able to get older- more bucks could be giant genetically than anyone could imagine- absolutely a lot of bucks that will never bust 150" too though BUT every farm could have plenty of high scoring monsters if done right. MOST good genetic bucks get whacked way before their prime & I know a lot of guys that will pass up the 135" 8 point that's 7.5 years old but shoot that 160" 3.5 year old unfortunately. Fortunately, more and more folks are understanding this, understanding GENETICS & AGE CLASS and are targeting old bucks no matter the score and babying & protecting the best genetic 2.5-4.5 year olds. More folks do that- the better the hunting will be for EVERYONE.
 
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I agree completely Skip. Last year on the main farm I hunt (200 acres) we had two hitlist bucks. The deer I killed 5.5yr old went 165 and a 4.5yr old that got shot on the neighbors went 160. We really hoped he'd make it another yr. We also had a mid 50's 3.5 yr old that we believe got shot on the neighbors. He was off limits. Then a beautiful 2.5 yr old 10pt pushing 140 that we found dead on a neighboring property. And on the farm to our south during 2nd season shotgun they killed 3 other 2.5 yr old bucks.

I was devastated and I'm thinking it's gonna be a few years before there's a buck to shoot on that farm again. Unless something moves in. Hopefully something does. He shouldn't have much for competition for doe's come rut.

3 years ago same farm we had a 2.5yr old with 17pts. Following yr he had 19 and was pushing 170. He was off limits but disappeared that Nov. Same year we had another 170 that we'd been passing for 2 years. Neighbors killed him during the rut.

With a farm this small it makes it tough to let some of those genetic freaks walk. I will continue to do so but will also loose alot of sleep after I do. haha
 
jjohnson said:
I agree completely Skip. Last year on the main farm I hunt (200 acres) we had two hitlist bucks. The deer I killed 5.5yr old went 165 and a 4.5yr old that got shot on the neighbors went 160. We really hoped he'd make it another yr. We also had a mid 50's 3.5 yr old that we believe got shot on the neighbors. He was off limits. Then a beautiful 2.5 yr old 10pt pushing 140 that we found dead on a neighboring property. And on the farm to our south during 2nd season shotgun they killed 3 other 2.5 yr old bucks.

I was devastated and I'm thinking it's gonna be a few years before there's a buck to shoot on that farm again. Unless something moves in. Hopefully something does. He shouldn't have much for competition for doe's come rut.

3 years ago same farm we had a 2.5yr old with 17pts. Following yr he had 19 and was pushing 170. He was off limits but disappeared that Nov. Same year we had another 170 that we'd been passing for 2 years. Neighbors killed him during the rut.

With a farm this small it makes it tough to let some of those genetic freaks walk. I will continue to do so but will also loose alot of sleep after I do. haha
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We go through alot of this as well. We work hard to shoot only mature deer and have passed so many deer that get shot it is sickening. I bowhunted for 9 years and finally killed my first buck this year(killed plenty mature with a gun) but passed plenty of 140's that ended up getting shot. Also this year on the night I shot my buck that was a mature 8 he was with a 10 and a 9 that outscored him by at least 10 inches each. One was pushing 145 and the other was about the same. I passed them to shoot the old mature 8, and the other ones got whacked by the neighbors shotgun group. Have seen it time and time again, and was the exact reason our group quit shotgun hunting. Got sick and tired of our group shooting 2.5 year olds just because they had 12 points and also moving the deer around for the neighbors to snipe.
 
I look at it you cant obsess yourself over monster bucks all the time then you just miss the point of hunting. 140 is fine
 
I am not gonna lie, I would rather shoot a 180inch 3 year old every year versus a 6 year old 130. I guess for me when my heart is racing, my legs are shaking and I can't breath that is what I live for. Any more I am just happy to get out there I guess.
 
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I actually think the last 2 posts are the majority of sentiment right now out there- I'm not trying to be a buck-snob - I just look at things through a biological lens, a lens of CHALLENGE (mature bucks/older bucks), what I enjoy and what's best for my land, neighbors and the herd. I am not fine with shooting a 140" deer if he's young. If you are, knock yourself out, I simply don't enjoy it, I'm not satisfied and I know it is not biologically a good decision. Lots of folks who do shoot young bucks have a lot more opportunities at them because they are in neighborhoods where guys are passing most those bucks and managing so well.

I fully enjoy and I'm fully fulfilled by the hunt when I'm targeting and trying to outsmart the mature bucks VS how stupid the young bucks are & how easy it is to kill the younger deer- they are just 2 totally different animals. If you're enjoying what you're doing, have at it BUT I'm glad more folks are look at the biology of deer management, age class, age structure, etc. I know I'm having a blast targeting mature bucks and I fully ENJOY and I'm FULFILLED passing that 3.5 year old 160", makes my day! To each his own BUT I'm sure continuing my quest & pursuit of old deer & the craftiest old bugger in the woods that few can even get glimpse at.

*really, I don't care what anyone does EXCEPT for the greater good of all our hunters & the deer herd. Unless you were my neighbor.... THEN I'd be HOPING for an appropriate/respectful venue to have a dialogue where I could try and convince you to target mature bucks and let young walk (no matter score!) - in the end I know what it would do for the neighborhood and hunting for both parties BUT I guess that would be the only setting I'd really try and respectfully convince someone.
 
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140 every year or a 170 every 10 years? I like to shoot deer....140 for me, that and I dont own any ground so beggers cant be choosers. :)
 
I got to believe it is a lot easier to pass on a 160 3 year old when you are 75% confident he can make it on your own ground. When you hunt HARD day in and day out on over hunted public ground all over the state, just laying your eyes on a true 160 regardless of age is a true blessing. In fact, it is pretty tough.

Now like you say, if everyone let them get to 5.5 years old or better on private - public whatever, seeing that 160 would be much more frequent. It just isn't the case for everyone therefore a lot of us are pressured into shooting a size of buck that will make them happy.

I would be willing to bet killing a 4.5 year old on public land is just as challenging as killing a 6.5 year old on private land where they have had minimal pressure, security and all the food they could ever want.

I would love to have the luxury you do Skip!! You work hard at it though and deserve it.

Like you said to each their own though.
 
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Liv4Rut said:
I got to believe it is a lot easier to pass on a 160 3 year old when you are 75% confident he can make it on your own ground. When you hunt HARD day in and day out on over hunted public ground all over the state, just laying your eyes on a true 160 regardless of age is a true blessing. In fact, it is pretty tough.

Now like you say, if everyone let them get to 5.5 years old or better on private - public whatever, seeing that 160 would be much more frequent. It just isn't the case for everyone therefore a lot of us are pressured into shooting a size of buck that will make them happy.

I would be willing to bet killing a 4.5 year old on public land is just as challenging as killing a 6.5 year old on private land where they have had minimal pressure, security and all the food they could ever want.

I would love to have the luxury you do Skip!! You work hard at it though and deserve it.

Like you said to each their own though.
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Agreed!................
 
Totally understand what you are saying! For a guy willing to pass the deer, put in the time, hunt smart & be patient, there's a good chance that any ground in IA a guy hunts will have a mature buck going through it (or living on it). you may have to pass up 20 3.5 year olds over a year or 2 before you get that crack but totally do-able. 5 years ago, I was hunting on 40's, 80's and some 160's that EVERYONE could hunt- it wasn't public BUT really ended up being the same. I saw a lot of 2-3 year old bucks. Each year I would see a couple 4.5's and maybe a 5.5+ or 2. If you've seen any of my pics I've posted, many were from those years- hunting "over-hunted", "over-pressured" small chunks and the VAST majority of my mature bucks have came off of those places.
Kinda went like this.... I'd see 12 - 3.5's for 1 - 4.5 yr old, then, I'd see 4 - 4.5 year olds for every 5.5+. So, in probability, if I'd shoot a 3.5 year old or older, I'd probably be 95% probability I get a 3.5 year old. Mature bucks are genius' and exist on high pressure ground BUT they are much smarter and, yes, in fewer numbers. (and ok- if you're on public in MI- no, you pry wouldn't see a mature buck in 15 years). High pressured land CAN produce mature deer, I've shot dozens of mature bucks off of SMALL & high pressured pieces. I've also passed lots of awesome 3.5-4.5 year old bucks on those same small/high pressure pieces, many made it, some didn't of course. All in all, I'm happy & blessed to be hunting in IA- it's the greatest hunting I've ever seen (and I've hunted MANY states, farms, areas, etc). To FINALLY have my own land, I can implement MORE of what I speak of BUT I sure did the fundamental same thing as a broke college kid making $8/hour- we put down some whopper MATURE bucks those years and it was so cool to do it on AVERAGE or high pressure land- outsmarting both the deer and the other hunters. We are all very lucky to have the opportunities we do & personally, I'm so excited to go after some 5.5+ year olds this fall. Be here before we know it.
 
Holy Crap! I didn't know my question was so complex. Just kidding, love the conversation.

I don't need to kill a buck to have a successful season. If I want meat I'll kill does. If I just want to kill something I'll kill does. Plus, my apartment is to small to have 10 140 mounts on the wall.

All in all I love the sport and will do it until I die. GO WHITETAILS!
 
I haven't shot a buck since '08, last year I didn't see anything from the stand that approached 140". Not sure what the future will bring for me. In comparison to 10 years ago, access and pressure have become big issues; it's a good thing I'm not just a trophy hunter, or I'd give hunting up for good. Though last year was disappointing in regards to buck sightings, we still saw lots of does and shot four that we'll eat on most of this year; that's enough to get me in a tree again this fall. If I keep it up at this rate, I'll probably only shoot 6 or 7 more bucks in my hunting lifetime. I want to make sure they get my blood pumping before I release an arrow.
One thing that has changed the entire landscape of hunting bucks for us, is our purchase of a small 80 acres. Way too small to manage bucks, but big enough to provide food and prime cover for does -- I'm hoping one of our pretty gals will bring in a hoss one of these years during the rut!
 
I'm willing to wait it out,...I think.

In a few yrs when my oldest is able to start hunting then for sure I'll be a "waiter", he won't have to be.
 
I adjust my standards to where I'm hunting. As deer numbers ratchet down, so will the quality of bucks. A 140 may look real juicy here in a few years.
 
Maybe I do not put in enough time, but I have 4 stands on 40 acres. I hunted 3 wks,end of Oct thru mid-Nov. Saw 9 deer total. Hunting mornings and afternoons. Some have said, "You sure you are in Iowa?" I have also been told my land is in a poor area. Whatever,,, I saw two, what I figured were 2 yr olds, and one 3 yr old. Not alot to choose from or pass up. I have lots of timber behind me and crops across the road. Lots of cover on my 40, but I think alot of poaching around too. Also, many farmers who believe all deer should die.
 
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