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Random Thursday question/thought on genetics.

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newfarmer

Well-Known Member
So I was sitting here today wondering how long certain genetics can stay in an area? Specifically antlers-
So long story short- the only 200+ inch deer shot in this county are within 5 miles from my door step, but was 20-30 years ago,this isn’t a huge trophy county but I’m sure they have to rotate through possibly?
This deer walked through this morning and I know he’s no where near that- but if he lives (perfect world he would stay on my piece and never leave) could he bump up (he’s got a similar frame to my grandpas 200” from 3 miles away)
Just random thoughts is all- no real debate
 

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newfarmer said:
So I was sitting here today wondering how long certain genetics can stay in an area? Specifically antlers-
So long story short- the only 200+ inch deer shot in this county are within 5 miles from my door step, but was 20-30 years ago,this isn’t a huge trophy county but I’m sure they have to rotate through possibly?
This deer walked through this morning and I know he’s no where near that- but if he lives (perfect world he would stay on my piece and never leave) could he bump up (he’s got a similar frame to my grandpas 200” from 3 miles away)
Just random thoughts is all- no real debate
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I’ve seen genetics run 10-15 years for sure!!! 15…. Ya- seen same traits.
Those bucks breed so many does by the time they hit 5-7 years old. When I really see what they can do. I see mature bucks 15 years later that look almost the same deer - minor differences - same age bucks. 15 years apart & look like same buck.

So- my short answer…. Genetics & traits can for sure stay around for 15+ years. I do notice changes in there too thought of “whoa, that’s totally new & unlike anything else”.


This is not a PERFECT EXAMPLE BUT A REASONABLE ONE. Long ways apart. 10+ years. One 6, one 7.
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Genetics have always been interesting to me and i really don’t have a good understanding of the different aspects of it. For example, we’ve all seen certain farms that always seem to produce mega giants and very similar/comparable farms 1 mile down the road the bucks seem to top out at say 155-160”. I’ve never really understood how this can be (assuming most of the variables are similar ie hunting pressure, age management, etc…) when it sounds like the majority of yearling bucks disperse a great distance from where they were born. Makes no sense to me. Similar to farms that seem to produce similar traits in the antlers…again, how can that be if bucks are dispersing all over the place randomly.
 
Rous14 said:
Genetics have always been interesting to me and i really don’t have a good understanding of the different aspects of it. For example, we’ve all seen certain farms that always seem to produce mega giants and very similar/comparable farms 1 mile down the road the bucks seem to top out at say 155-160”. I’ve never really understood how this can be (assuming most of the variables are similar ie hunting pressure, age management, etc…) when it sounds like the majority of yearling bucks disperse a great distance from where they were born. Makes no sense to me. Similar to farms that seem to produce similar traits in the antlers…again, how can that be if bucks are dispersing all over the place randomly.
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Seen this over & over & over!!!!!! 5 Miles can make huge difference.
IMO- it’s more nutrition & then one issue regarding genetics. Comparing areas where deer able get to maturity & really watch over time to compare areas…..
IF folks dug into farm practices, fertility & natural browse- it likely would explain 75% of this IMO…

1) quality soil areas and areas where farmers or natural soil has proper PH, macros & micros. This is HUGE!!!! Some areas are “premo” where others “massively neglected or degraded”.

2) natural browse: both soil quality like above but also forestry practices or lack of them - cattle areas or Dense no sun light forests would be worst. Massive Tsi across large areas or simply “great browse” in any context is huge influencer.

3) random other stuff like if some areas get top ended worse than others. Get on a block where they shoot best bucks & leave inferior genetics wide scale. Vs an area where best gens get to maturity & lesser gens are targeted: HUGE!!!!!!

Seen so many swings in 5-15 miles where it goes from “amazing” to “not great”.
 
The other question I have is how much the female contributes to the genetic antler size? I know with show animals a lot of times you could count on specific females to produce a quality offspring no matter what the male was. Some combos were better than others but the females were at the time the major contributing factor.
 
Ever hear of a "throwback"?
Basically it's when a genetic trait pops up that hasn't been seen for yrs. I think that's what can happen when the right combination of genes that were floating around in the gene pool rise to the surface and merge together creating a buck with similar characteristics to deer from way back. The genes could hardly ever totally disappear from an area unless the whole population was eradicated.
 
78mac78 said:
The other question I have is how much the female contributes to the genetic antler size? I know with show animals a lot of times you could count on specific females to produce a quality offspring no matter what the male was. Some combos were better than others but the females were at the time the major contributing factor.
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This is what we call the herd doe genetics. A buck will get his antler make-up from his mother. She gets it from here maternal father. We see it in captive deer. Herd does that carry the super genetics are the key to produce some mega giants. That's why when doe management lingo gets thrown around I cringed sometimes. Sure, we all have to shoot does and I do as well but we never know which ones are carrying the super genetics. Game of luck so to speak.

When it comes to genetics, the state has pockets of great genetics! I've seen it year after year. I can think of 4 pockets right now across S Iowa. They are small but produce giants year in and year out. Every county of the state can produce a giant every now and then, which makes our state fascinating!
 
Here's a picture of the genetic diversity that can be present in a relatively small area. I got these bucks during the five yrs, 2014-2018 all within a three mile by one mile area.
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I strongly agree with what you said Midwest. Problem I have is figuring out who will harvest the amount of crapper bucks that need removed.
No one wants to use a tag on them so they continue to grow older and more aggressive.
 
Field of Dreams said:
I strongly agree with what you said Midwest. Problem I have is figuring out who will harvest the amount of crapper bucks that need removed.
No one wants to use a tag on them so they continue to grow older and more aggressive.
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I've taken several buddies who just want to shoot a buck or fill freezer. Buddies have shot more bucks off my farm than I have and they've been extremely strategic "removals".
 
Obsessed said:
Some may say that all things being equal, allow a buck to get OLD, and he will almost certainly become a monster at some point along the way.
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Agreed, but there's always an exception to the rule. I currently have that exception- an OLD buck that has thrown the same rack since I got access three years ago and he looked old back then. Same rack every year, very distinct rack and face. Many many pictures. I have sheds that prove he won't even scratch P&Y. There's good genetics in there. Multiple 150-160 and one looks to be 170+ this year. Sometimes genetics just fall flat in the rack dept.
 
CottonwoodCanyon said:
Agreed, but there's always an exception to the rule. I currently have that exception- an OLD buck that has thrown the same rack since I got access three years ago and he looked old back then. Same rack every year, very distinct rack and face. Many many pictures. I have sheds that prove he won't even scratch P&Y. There's good genetics in there. Multiple 150-160 and one looks to be 170+ this year. Sometimes genetics just fall flat in the rack dept.
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Some may say that you just need to give him one more year for him to hit that magic age for his genetics to kick in... ;)
 
Obsessed said:
Some may say that you just need to give him one more year for him to hit that magic age for his genetics to kick in... ;)
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Haha fair enough, there's always a lot of opinions floating around! He's probably in trouble if he slips up this year. I'd love to send his teeth in and know if my age guesses are correct.
 
We chased a buck until he was 8 1/2, never would have broken 140".... I shot a 7 1/2", never broke 150... That being said, several 180+ type deer roamed the area and had many pictures of and know neighbors who shot them- so I do think, some bucks are just only going to get so big... Just like people, I am never going to be 7' tall, no matter how long I live...
 
newfarmer said:
We chased a buck until he was 8 1/2, never would have broken 140".... I shot a 7 1/2", never broke 150... That being said, several 180+ type deer roamed the area and had many pictures of and know neighbors who shot them- so I do think, some bucks are just only going to get so big... Just like people, I am never going to be 7' tall, no matter how long I live...
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This logic makes the most sense to me. I've said basically the same thing multiple times. Some may not agree, however. Some...
 
Genetics are wonderful! The first buck was shot on Election Day 2000 and has the curved right brow time.
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This buck was shot 2016 election days 16 years later 1/2 miles apart that also has the right brow tine curved. It took a few months to actually see the same similarities once the 16 buck was on the wall.
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This buck was shot 1992 and has crab claws on the G4s and has curved 2s and 3s
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1999 this buck was shot 1/4 mile from the 92 buck and has the crabs going on and the same curved tines.
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About 6 years ago I passed a buck with the same looking crab claws but let him go (still regretting it) he was around one mile from the other two.
 
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