rifle hunting?
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Amstel
New Member
Hunterman, not sure if this can help your report but the state of Pennsylvania did a in depth report on "Do Shotguns and Muzzeloaders pose less risk than Center-fire Rifles for Deer Hunting" it's 75 pages long. The report is located at http://lbfc.legis.state.pa.us/ Here is just a small part of there conclusion.
Shotgun proved to be riskier than a center-fire rifle. The muzzleloader was always less risky than both the rifle and the shotgun. Eliminating or controlling ricochet seems essential if the shotgun is to be used as an effective risk management option. If ricochets could be controlled, than the shotgun and muzzleloader would be less risky in all cases.
However I have to admit I will never use a rifle to deer hunt in Iowa.
Shotgun proved to be riskier than a center-fire rifle. The muzzleloader was always less risky than both the rifle and the shotgun. Eliminating or controlling ricochet seems essential if the shotgun is to be used as an effective risk management option. If ricochets could be controlled, than the shotgun and muzzleloader would be less risky in all cases.
However I have to admit I will never use a rifle to deer hunt in Iowa.
timekiller
No, you can't pet him.
I don't think that a rifle is any more dangerous than a shotgun when used responsibly, but I think that most areas of Iowa have too high of a rural population of people to have a regular rifle season. Personally I think that arming the party hunters with rifles would be disasterous if they continued to use the same tatics. I'm not saying that there would be bystanders getting shot left and right, but I think that more houses and buildings would get hit. I know all areas aren't the same, but here there's a farm or acreage about every 1/4 mile.
The problem isn't the weapon. It's the dope pulling the trigger.
The problem isn't the weapon. It's the dope pulling the trigger.
Rifle season 4 does is awesome, Just give us who own ground in southern Iowa or know someone who owns ground down here to help the population out for a extra 2 weeks.
Do some shed bucks get shot, sure they do, is it a bummer, sure it is but stuff happens
Some of us like to do it because that is a season to get together with guys/gals we normally dont hunt with because they do their own thing during bow/shotgun.
Personally I love taking that 200 yrd shot off the back of my deck. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
Southern Iowa is tough because of all the land that is locked up by big name companies and T.V. hunting personalities, but if your in that group they will let you on their 4000 acres for the doe only season to help their out of control doe population. And because they want that opportunity at the buck that is on THEIR farm, which you should be able to understand. After all They do pay for that farm, not you or I.
I dont let anyone else bowhunt my farm or the farms that I have permission to hunt, but I do let my friends come down and take all the doe's they want with their rifle. In the long run they are helping us all out. They get pretty skitish after the Shotgun seasons on the farms I have permission and it is not uncommon to kill them at 150-200 yrds. Good luck with a smooth bore slug gun at that distance /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
Rifle season should stay around for doe's and IMO if you have a person who likes to properly manage a property a Rifle season for Bucks isnt gonna change a thing.
People shooting from the roads happens as we speak for bucks and we dont have a rifle season, so having one isnt going to change much.
Do some shed bucks get shot, sure they do, is it a bummer, sure it is but stuff happens
Some of us like to do it because that is a season to get together with guys/gals we normally dont hunt with because they do their own thing during bow/shotgun.
Personally I love taking that 200 yrd shot off the back of my deck. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
Southern Iowa is tough because of all the land that is locked up by big name companies and T.V. hunting personalities, but if your in that group they will let you on their 4000 acres for the doe only season to help their out of control doe population. And because they want that opportunity at the buck that is on THEIR farm, which you should be able to understand. After all They do pay for that farm, not you or I.
I dont let anyone else bowhunt my farm or the farms that I have permission to hunt, but I do let my friends come down and take all the doe's they want with their rifle. In the long run they are helping us all out. They get pretty skitish after the Shotgun seasons on the farms I have permission and it is not uncommon to kill them at 150-200 yrds. Good luck with a smooth bore slug gun at that distance /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
Rifle season should stay around for doe's and IMO if you have a person who likes to properly manage a property a Rifle season for Bucks isnt gonna change a thing.
People shooting from the roads happens as we speak for bucks and we dont have a rifle season, so having one isnt going to change much.
Kansasdeerslayer
PMA Member
I need some educating from you guys.
1. How long has IA had their rifle doe season?
2. What was there reasoning behind allowing centerfires in the lower portion of the state?
Nanny, I agree that a centerfire can be an advantage over a slug gun in alot of folks hands.
I also agree that road hunting is not hunting. I didn't even realize that it was legal in some states...all I can say is wow!
Bowmaker, you lost me a little on the finding it strange that I am comparing KS to IA as far as terrain goes. Also, if you look at other states with rifle seasons, I don't think that safety is a huge issue. We somehow manage to survive year after year with centerfires and trust me, opening weekend on public ground gets pretty crazy.
Casper16, alot of deer also get wounded by guys unloading their shotguns on running deer 75 yards away. Whats the difference? Poor shot placement/ poor decision making happens in Iowa and Kansas, regardless of weapon.
1. How long has IA had their rifle doe season?
2. What was there reasoning behind allowing centerfires in the lower portion of the state?
Nanny, I agree that a centerfire can be an advantage over a slug gun in alot of folks hands.
I also agree that road hunting is not hunting. I didn't even realize that it was legal in some states...all I can say is wow!
Bowmaker, you lost me a little on the finding it strange that I am comparing KS to IA as far as terrain goes. Also, if you look at other states with rifle seasons, I don't think that safety is a huge issue. We somehow manage to survive year after year with centerfires and trust me, opening weekend on public ground gets pretty crazy.
Casper16, alot of deer also get wounded by guys unloading their shotguns on running deer 75 yards away. Whats the difference? Poor shot placement/ poor decision making happens in Iowa and Kansas, regardless of weapon.
Kansasdeerslayer
PMA Member
By the way, I am not trying to come off as PRO CENTERFIRE for Iowa, because I am a non-res and it has little to no effect on me. I am just trying to add something to the discussion.
Oh, and bowmaker, you wonder how many guys in KS, MO, hunt with centerfire vs. slug guns?
I don't have any scientific data, but my guess would be that 85+% in KS use centerfire, 15% use muzzleloader, and my dad is the only guy in the state using a slug gun. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
Oh, and bowmaker, you wonder how many guys in KS, MO, hunt with centerfire vs. slug guns?
I don't have any scientific data, but my guess would be that 85+% in KS use centerfire, 15% use muzzleloader, and my dad is the only guy in the state using a slug gun. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
KANSASDEERSLAYER
Iowa has allowed rifles for at least part of the January anterless season for the last 2 years and will again this year. This season is only for the lower 2 tiers of counties because the DNR feels that the deer population is to high here. The DNR thought that the novelty of legally shooting a doe with a centerfire rifle might draw more hunters into the season. I haven't seen any real change in numbers of hunters participating in this hunt just because they can use a rifle but I do believe that many are using rifles instead of the shotguns that they used in the past.
My coments about comparing Kansas and North Dakota to Iowa terrain was meant to compare the advantage of using a rifle in the more open country like in Kansas or North Dakota to almost no advantage in areas of Iowa where rifles are legal for this special season. Where I live in SE Iowa the terrain is quite different than what I have experienced in these other states. Lots of rolling hills and ditches with lost of timber. There are very few places that I hunt here where you could get or make a 200 yard shot, with most being 100 yards or less, there for removing the main advantage for the rifle of increased range.
I do see it as a safty issue as well, partly because of the Iowa traditions that other states don't participate in or even allow, such as drives and party hunting. In other states that don't allow this the hunters are spread out a little more and aren't purposely trying to run deer toward shooters with each group facing each other. Other comments that I have heard is our population in SE Iowa isn't very dense so rifles don't pose a hazzard. My farm is next to a large public hunting area that draws a lot of NR hunters and hunters from other parts of the state who often don't really know the country or lay of the land. If I stand on the roof of my ranch style one story house with a 30/06, I know I could hit 5 different homes and a church if I tried. Conversely I am just as certain that I could not hit any of them with a 12 gauge slug. We might never experience an accident because of this rifle season in the present situation, but if we opened up all our gun seasons to rifles I am absoultly certain that our accident and fatality rates will jump dramaticly.
Your comment about your Dad being the only person in Kansas using a slug gun pretty well makes the point I was trying to make. If we open all our seasons to rifles then they would become the gun of choice and no one, or almost no one, would even consider using a slug gun any more. This is because people perceive the rifle to be more effective, whether it is or not. Most of my arguement against rifles for deer in Iowa is that it is not even remotely benifical to our type of hunting, especially here where I live, so why should we take what has worked wonderfully well and helped create the deer herd we enjoy now and change it if there isn't any benifit. If the reason is that the only shot you have at a doe in SE Iowa is a 250 yard shot that you can't make with a slug gun, then pass up that shot and wait until another doe walks out at 40 yards instead because we know there proably will be one. There just aren't many cases arround here where we are forced to take a 250 yard shot or have tag soup.
Sorry for being so long again. I just don't see how you guys can do short or one line answers.
Iowa has allowed rifles for at least part of the January anterless season for the last 2 years and will again this year. This season is only for the lower 2 tiers of counties because the DNR feels that the deer population is to high here. The DNR thought that the novelty of legally shooting a doe with a centerfire rifle might draw more hunters into the season. I haven't seen any real change in numbers of hunters participating in this hunt just because they can use a rifle but I do believe that many are using rifles instead of the shotguns that they used in the past.
My coments about comparing Kansas and North Dakota to Iowa terrain was meant to compare the advantage of using a rifle in the more open country like in Kansas or North Dakota to almost no advantage in areas of Iowa where rifles are legal for this special season. Where I live in SE Iowa the terrain is quite different than what I have experienced in these other states. Lots of rolling hills and ditches with lost of timber. There are very few places that I hunt here where you could get or make a 200 yard shot, with most being 100 yards or less, there for removing the main advantage for the rifle of increased range.
I do see it as a safty issue as well, partly because of the Iowa traditions that other states don't participate in or even allow, such as drives and party hunting. In other states that don't allow this the hunters are spread out a little more and aren't purposely trying to run deer toward shooters with each group facing each other. Other comments that I have heard is our population in SE Iowa isn't very dense so rifles don't pose a hazzard. My farm is next to a large public hunting area that draws a lot of NR hunters and hunters from other parts of the state who often don't really know the country or lay of the land. If I stand on the roof of my ranch style one story house with a 30/06, I know I could hit 5 different homes and a church if I tried. Conversely I am just as certain that I could not hit any of them with a 12 gauge slug. We might never experience an accident because of this rifle season in the present situation, but if we opened up all our gun seasons to rifles I am absoultly certain that our accident and fatality rates will jump dramaticly.
Your comment about your Dad being the only person in Kansas using a slug gun pretty well makes the point I was trying to make. If we open all our seasons to rifles then they would become the gun of choice and no one, or almost no one, would even consider using a slug gun any more. This is because people perceive the rifle to be more effective, whether it is or not. Most of my arguement against rifles for deer in Iowa is that it is not even remotely benifical to our type of hunting, especially here where I live, so why should we take what has worked wonderfully well and helped create the deer herd we enjoy now and change it if there isn't any benifit. If the reason is that the only shot you have at a doe in SE Iowa is a 250 yard shot that you can't make with a slug gun, then pass up that shot and wait until another doe walks out at 40 yards instead because we know there proably will be one. There just aren't many cases arround here where we are forced to take a 250 yard shot or have tag soup.
Sorry for being so long again. I just don't see how you guys can do short or one line answers.
Fishbonker
Life Member
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bowmaker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">KANSASDEERSLAYER
Sorry for being so long again. I just don't see how you guys can do short or one line answers. </div></div>
Me either.
The 'Bonker
Sorry for being so long again. I just don't see how you guys can do short or one line answers. </div></div>
Me either.
The 'Bonker
DOUBLE LUNG
Active Member
You don't need a rifle to kill a deer. Shotguns and Muzzleloaders work just fine.
Kansasdeerslayer
PMA Member
Doublelung, your logic does not work in America.
You don't need a compound bow, a recurve works just fine.
You don't need a 300 horsepower motor in your Camaro, 175 is more than enough. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
You don't need a compound bow, a recurve works just fine.
You don't need a 300 horsepower motor in your Camaro, 175 is more than enough. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif
203ntyp
PMA Member
I disagree, a rifle bullet can travel over a mile and there have been innocent victims every year from high power rifles. I would imagine 95% or more than slug guns.
According to the International Hunter Education Association, in an average year, fewer than 1,000 people in the US and Canada are accidentally shot by hunters, and of these, fewer than 75 are fatalities. In many cases, these fatalities are self-inflicted by hunters who trip, fall, or have other accidents that cause them to shoot themselves with their own weapons. Most of the other fatalities come in hunting parties, where one hunter shoots another accidentally or a stray bullet that travels well beyond the intended target.
Firearm Fatalities in Hunting
Fatality numbers have improved somewhat in recent years, thanks to extensive hunter education programs available in most states, but hunting does come with inherent dangers. Hunting fatalities due to firearms account for about 12 to 15 percent of all fatalities due to firearms nationally. Hunting proponents will point out that the chances of a death due to a firearm accident of any kind are roughly the same as a death from falling out of a bed, chair, or another piece of furniture—about 1 in 4,888. If you compare pure numbers, roughly 20 times as many people die each year by accidental drowning than do by accidents while hunting. These statistics are slightly misleading, however, since far more people engage in recreational swimming than engage in sports hunting with firearms.
LoessHillsArcher
PMA Member
Old post brought back to the top by a bot, thank you Russia for stirring the IA Whitetail pot! haha
S
swampwright
Guest
Hey all I'm saying is Iowa held the world record buck until we started letting rifles (straight wall) in the picture.... Coincidence?? I think NOT