Rifles for Iowas gun seasons

[Tin Roof]

How does it encourage young hunters? I don't personally think this will do anything to recruit young hunters. I am all for hunter recruitment and getting kids involved but I don't see how giving them more weapon choices will change anything.

A straight wall caliber as what's on the list for this bill would be a much better load for young kids to start with opposed to the "old fallback" of a youth model 20 or 12 gauge. I've gone through this with 3 of my own kids, and friend's kids. Most of the time a youth model gun kicks like an angry mule for a young kid, and the full size guns are too big for them to hold comfortably or safely. My oldest daughter is 21 and still has a tough time holding anything comfortably other than a youth model.
Yes, I know you can accomplish somewhat of the same results with a muzzy running a light powder load, but call me lazy, I don't want to have to continuously clean a muzzy during sighting in, practice, etc.
The same can be said for smaller framed adult women that want to hunt. Or even men for that matter.
Someone made the comment about the gun lobby pushing this. Does anyone really believe that all of a sudden there is going to be a mass rush to buy weapons that shoot these calibers? I don't see it happening. I assume that most are smart enough to know that there will not be a major improvement in accuracy or range.

 

[floriangeyer]

6 seasons, 5 weapons and 4 months of hunting!! ENOUGH!!!!)

I agree. It is insane and it needs to be reformed. A single two week high power rifle ONLY season would level the playing field so that everyone can hunt it fully, without sinking thousands and thousands into aluminum compound bows, carbon arrows with expanding broad heads, primitive season black powered rifles use inline ignition systems with modern primers and smokeless powder, and "shotguns" that cannot even launch shot shell properly.

 

[Sligh1]

What effect, if any, has that had on the quality of the deer herd and deer hunting in Indiana? I'm talking a direct effect that can without a doubt be linked to allowing centerfire rifle rounds, not speculation.
I personally don't see this as being a "the sky is falling" issue for anyone other than those that like to consider certain deer "their deer".

*edit: What the current bill will do is create an environment that should encourage more young hunters to get out in the field. That is something that as sportsmen/women we should be supporting.

I don't think you can ever quantify deer quality in a bullet proof study. All you need is COMMON SENSE & years of experiencing the hunting in XYZ places to understand this. That's it & this can be SIMPLY EXPLAINED.... then folks can judge for themselves if the COMMON SENSE is really that and does hold up. When we talk about HIGH POWERS & eventually coming to Iowa....
Common sense to me is all that's required, I'll just give the TIP OF THE ICE BURG HERE, just some EXAMPLES to think about....
1) I've personally lived on 2 "MAGIC RIFLE LINES"...... Southern iowa VS Missouri... MO has rifles across the border. Michigan.... At least when I was there had a "MAGIC LINE" where rifles were allowed in top tier of lower Pen and not in the lower part (due to higher populations of people). in BOTH CASES...... Deer quality suffers immensely in the rifle areas. MO is an absolute joke what happens below that line. Those bucks get pummeled at 300-500 yards all rifle season - it's a blood bath and the deer quality is an absolute joke VS above the border into iowa. A joke. Anyone living down there who knows about deer quality can attest to this. It's also the timing of when rifles are out, NO DOUBT but the fact they have high powers out VS shotguns.... it's unreal the difference & how many young up & comers get rifled down in MO & those hunters across the border are applying for NR Iowa tags to hunt here where we don't have that. Deer quality night and day. Same with MI, for other reasons as well BUT, you cross into "rifle land" - simply "it sucks"
2) realistic killable max range with SHOTGUN..., MAYBE 200-250 yards. Realistic gun drives, guys doing their best from stand: 125 yards. HIGH POWER RIFLES.... max range, 600-800 yards maybe (sure, yes, someone can probably do a 1000 yard shot+). Realistic, 300-400 is very doable. Basically, triple the range. REALITY: shotgunners need close shots and still miss "quite often". Rifle hunters can see a "dot" across a big field, scope it out and send a rifle round across the field not really even knowing how big, old or whatever the buck really is. Rifles are long range extremely effective big game killers, shotguns are no where close. Watching rifle hunters in S Iowa during shed buck season, the long distance shots were a huge part of the reason all the shed bucks and button bucks got killed - the deer were so far away, no one can really assess what they are shooting at. That impacts the herd quality, management ability & hunters making "wise kills" big time.
3) REGULATION CHANGES... Folks who really understand. For guys who have only hunted "one area" their whole life, this might be harder to understand, but I'll tell you a very true story with several quick examples that any person reading this who lives in "XYZ" place can attest to.... what regulation changes of a variety of forms (most starting with incremental changes and it SNOW BALLED into disaster) can do to ANY PLACE.....
A) Illinois used to be fantastic. Before all the publicity, I put in for a preference point or lottery and sometimes got a tag. Saw MAMMOTH deer there & fantastic hunting about 15 years ago. Each year, more tags, more publicity. Finally, flood gates run wide open so anyone can get tags and every Tom Dick & Harry is out pounding every block.... that state went down the tubes so stinking fast it's sick. I mean, literally, 2-5 years I'd see 10 bucks/year over 160" & great age structure. By the time I quit going, almost every nice 2 & 3 year old I knew on MULTIPLE FARMS was getting pummeled and if I saw one buck over 160", i was LUCKY. It took less than a decade & it was OVER! Unless you owned a giant farm or got lucky with neighbors, at least 6 areas I hunted, all the same - disaster.
B) I have 3 different neighbors from WISCONSIN, none of which even know eachother - that bought land in Iowa. They all quit hunting their own state. All of them moved down here (put in for points or party hunt) to hunt after WI did the "earn a buck" and both populations declined, more hunters out due to popularity over the years and the rifling down of all the young bucks on smaller pieces of land. They all couldn't afford the high dollar huge parcels that get protected in places like Buffalo county, etc. So, they left to come to the "last great place" & don't even hunt their home states.
C) POSITIVE EXAMPLE: look at what happened to Indiana & maybe examples like Ohio, KY (whenever this happened) when their regs go from 2 bucks to 1 buck. All of the sudden, bam, their quality goes from "crap" to "pretty decent". Sure, IN took a major step back with all their new weapons but when they made a POSITIVE change, I know countless guys there that said "geesh, actually getting dang good here". Positive changes are the EXCEPTION rather than the rule though unfortunately.
D) KS- fantastic. Still is. Not like it was though..... Opening flood gates, leasing, outfitting was able to explode due to ability to get tags for everyone VS a tight draw before. Again, giant landowners, not a huge deal - the everyday guy, OUCH, I talk to em all the time. Hunting has degraded, access decreased, deer quality has been hurt. It's still a great place but not near what it once was.

"OPPORTUNITY FOR NEW HUNTERS!!!!!!"...... I'm just gonna say it how it is. No disrespect. BUT.... Biggest bunch of Horse-SH** argument I ever heard in my life! Biggest smoke screen BS garbage on earth. It's an emotional argument the special interest & politicians have fooled many into believing. In short, here's why.....
1) I 100% believe if young folks aren't hunting, it's far more to do with things like: being glued to video games and the culture we live in. If not, here's the far more difficult reason....
2) If a young person wants to hunt now days & doesn't, is it REALLY because "oh man, that gun kicks too much. Geesh, that bow & arrow is too hard to pull back, I need a crossbow!!!!"?????? Is that the reason?? BS it is!!!!!!!!! Any kid has 4 months with their special season we carved out for them. The REAL REASON....... They ain't got a place to go that's worth a piss!!!!!!!!!! What, state land that's piss pounded to no end? A $3k/year lease? A lot of kids sure could afford that! So, what's a kid to do..... Go see nothing on overhunted garbage? (and if it's overhunted, which we know most farms are - are we really lacking in hunters?????). Go knock on 20 doors to get 20 people to say "sorry, I'm filled to the max with hunters, nope". Or, they go hunt the woods that had droves of guys killing everything off - just what a youngster likes, seeing little to no deer (yes, as a grown man, I don't mind it BUT kids need "lots of deer" & excitement & the away from the crowds experience to really have fun & get hooked). There's NO LACK OF DEER HUNTERS!!!!! No Politician is ever gonna convince me of this. Go to ANY FARM in iowa, any where, throw a dart on a map, go walk out in the field & timber, it will be FULL of treestands, deer blinds, no trespassing signs, etc. WHY?!?!?!? We have a lot of hunters and we have a large % of hunters watching the incremental destruction & exploitation of the resource & they are buying up land by the droves to protect what they love. Can anyone blame them? What happens to the little guy? Gets stuck with NO WHERE TO HUNT! This is the reality. No new weapon is gonna bring kids out - on the contrary, the more we see, the less access kids will have, no doubt in my mind. We have a cultural problem with our kids but more-so an ACCESS ISSUE that's only getting worse with incremental degrading of Iowa's resource & quality. We all know what Iowa would look like if we open up to: crossbows, rifles & move seasons around or add them. We all seen what the shed buck season did. We all know what's happened to Iowa's access over the last 10-20 years. WAKE UP. In 5-10 years, you honestly could look at the regs and say "dude, game over man, iowa is done as we knew it". FOR REAL, this is not just "sky is falling" stuff, this has happened all over the country and I've seen it with my own eyes countless times. WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Tin Roof]

FOR REAL, this is not just "sky is falling" stuff, this has happened all over the country and I've seen it with my own eyes countless times. WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No offense, but I feel your intentions are selfish. The deer in Iowa are EVERYONE'S deer. Allowing straight wall rifle rounds is not going to decimate the herd. If that was truly the worry with this bill, then those of you opposed would also be lobbying against party shotgun hunting. The "brown it's down" orange army does far more damage to our deer herd than allowing straight walled rifle rounds will.

 

[Tin Roof]

2) realistic killable max range with SHOTGUN..., MAYBE 200-250 yards. Realistic gun drives, guys doing their best from stand: 125 yards. HIGH POWER RIFLES.... max range, 600-800 yards maybe (sure, yes, someone can probably do a 1000 yard shot+). Realistic, 300-400 is very doable. Basically, triple the range. REALITY: shotgunners need close shots and still miss "quite often". Rifle hunters can see a "dot" across a big field, scope it out and send a rifle round across the field not really even knowing how big, old or whatever the buck really is. Rifles are long range extremely effective big game killers, shotguns are no where close. Watching rifle hunters in S Iowa during shed buck season, the long distance shots were a huge part of the reason all the shed bucks and button bucks got killed - the deer were so far away, no one can really assess what they are shooting at. That impacts the herd quality, management ability & hunters making "wise kills" big time.

B) I have 3 different neighbors from WISCONSIN, none of which even know eachother - that bought land in Iowa. They all quit hunting their own state. All of them moved down here (put in for points or party hunt) to hunt after WI did the "earn a buck" and both populations declined, more hunters out due to popularity over the years and the rifling down of all the young bucks on smaller pieces of land. They all couldn't afford the high dollar huge parcels that get protected in places like Buffalo county, etc. So, they left to come to the "last great place" & don't even hunt their home states.


"OPPORTUNITY FOR NEW HUNTERS!!!!!!"...... I'm just gonna say it how it is. No disrespect. BUT.... Biggest bunch of Horse-SH** argument I ever heard in my life! Biggest smoke screen BS garbage on earth. It's an emotional argument the special interest & politicians have fooled many into believing. In short, here's why.....
1) I 100% believe if young folks aren't hunting, it's far more to do with things like: being glued to video games and the culture we live in. If not, here's the far more difficult reason....
2) If a young person wants to hunt now days & doesn't, is it REALLY because "oh man, that gun kicks too much. Geesh, that bow & arrow is too hard to pull back, I need a crossbow!!!!"?????? Is that the reason?? BS it is!!!!!!!!! Any kid has 4 months with their special season we carved out for them. The REAL REASON....... They ain't got a place to go that's worth a piss!!!!!!!!!! What, state land that's piss pounded to no end? A $3k/year lease? A lot of kids sure could afford that! So, what's a kid to do..... Go see nothing on overhunted garbage? (and if it's overhunted, which we know most farms are - are we really lacking in hunters?????). Go knock on 20 doors to get 20 people to say "sorry, I'm filled to the max with hunters, nope". Or, they go hunt the woods that had droves of guys killing everything off - just what a youngster likes, seeing little to no deer (yes, as a grown man, I don't mind it BUT kids need "lots of deer" & excitement & the away from the crowds experience to really have fun & get hooked). There's NO LACK OF DEER HUNTERS!!!!! No Politician is ever gonna convince me of this. Go to ANY FARM in iowa, any where, throw a dart on a map, go walk out in the field & timber, it will be FULL of treestands, deer blinds, no trespassing signs, etc. WHY?!?!?!? We have a lot of hunters and we have a large % of hunters watching the incremental destruction & exploitation of the resource & they are buying up land by the droves to protect what they love. Can anyone blame them? What happens to the little guy? Gets stuck with NO WHERE TO HUNT! This is the reality. No new weapon is gonna bring kids out - on the contrary, the more we see, the less access kids will have, no doubt in my mind. We have a cultural problem with our kids but more-so an ACCESS ISSUE that's only getting worse with incremental degrading of Iowa's resource & quality. We all know what Iowa would look like if we open up to: crossbows, rifles & move seasons around or add them. We all seen what the shed buck season did. We all know what's happened to Iowa's access over the last 10-20 years. WAKE UP. In 5-10 years, you honestly could look at the regs and say "dude, game over man, iowa is done as we knew it". FOR REAL, this is not just "sky is falling" stuff, this has happened all over the country and I've seen it with my own eyes countless times. WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Item 2. Dude, NONE of the calibers on the list are 300+ yard accuracy rounds. Open your eyes.
Item B I have former coworkers and friends that prefer deer hunting in Wisconsin, and are very successful.
And back to the new hunters. I feel you are 10000% wrong. Honestly I KNOW you are that wrong.

 

[floriangeyer]

No offense, but I feel your intentions are selfish. The deer in Iowa are EVERYONE'S deer. Allowing straight wall rifle rounds is not going to decimate the herd. If that was truly the worry with this bill, then those of you opposed would also be lobbying against party shotgun hunting. The "brown it's down" orange army does far more damage to our deer herd than allowing straight walled rifle rounds will.

I think, for the most part, you are on the money; people who has sunk thousands of dollars on bizarre specialty weapons specifically designed to meet certain legal criteria does not want common sense reform, as this would level the playing field and give equal opportunity access to everyone's deer.

 

[nontyp]

A straight wall caliber as what's on the list for this bill would be a much better load for young kids to start with opposed to the "old fallback" of a youth model 20 or 12 gauge. I've gone through this with 3 of my own kids, and friend's kids. Most of the time a youth model gun kicks like an angry mule for a young kid, and the full size guns are too big for them to hold comfortably or safely. My oldest daughter is 21 and still has a tough time holding anything comfortably other than a youth model.
Yes, I know you can accomplish somewhat of the same results with a muzzy running a light powder load, but call me lazy, I don't want to have to continuously clean a muzzy during sighting in, practice, etc.
The same can be said for smaller framed adult women that want to hunt. Or even men for that matter.
Someone made the comment about the gun lobby pushing this. Does anyone really believe that all of a sudden there is going to be a mass rush to buy weapons that shoot these calibers? I don't see it happening. I assume that most are smart enough to know that there will not be a major improvement in accuracy or range.

I understand the convenience factor for young hunters to use smaller calibers. I just don't think realistically it will recruit more young hunters. I don't think this bill is the end of the world. I just know it will be abused by some.

 

[Sligh1]

Real quick....
YES, I understand THIS BILL isn't for high powers. I UNDERSTAND THIS. What I was replying to was: High powers in Indiana and what i believe will be COMING TO IOWA: High power proposal. Yes, I get it. I'm not even stating the damage of this bill, I'm going on to what we'll see down the road with High powers, more seasons, crossbows, all the new regs we will see pushed by politicians and special interests.

"SELFISH"..... Nope, the opposite.... In all honesty, this doesn't impact me. This would have impacted me 15 years ago when all I hunted was "by permission land" but now I have my own farm I can protect and keep these stupid regulations away from. Far from selfish. I am thinking of the little guy or how I had to hunt 15 years ago. those are the guys I'm looking out for and I know those are the ones that will be hurt. They already are hurting. How many folks do we all know and talk to EVERY YEAR "lost my ground", "no where to go", "my hunt got ruined again cause 5 guys on this little farm", "man, a lot more hunting pressure than it used to be", etc, etc. Every Liberal regulation change just chips away at the every day hunter's access & quality of hunting.

WISCONSIN, SERIOUSLY? I know 2 people I can think of that travel up to Wisconsin to hunt. The ONLY reason they do it is to be in the "middle of the forest" and peace & quiet. I've never seen them take anything over 2 years old. The good areas, like Buffalo county and similar - they are so tied up, there's ZERO access, almost zero at least. It's owned almost completely by hunters trying to create their own management system. The upper parts of the state, I have many friends who usually see 0 - 10 deer PER WEEK. Is there good pockets in WI? SURE! Why do I know over a dozen landowners within a 10 mile radius of me from WISCONSIN? Because they decided they wanted to DRIVE 5-10 HOURS to come hunt Iowa where we still have a good age structure & management. The amount of people driving 5-10 hours the opposite direction, I have to struggle to think of them and again, it's either them going to the "big forest" get away or they have a premium place like the managed farms in Buffalo county.

 

[Tin Roof]

Real quick....
YES, I understand THIS BILL isn't for high powers. I UNDERSTAND THIS. What I was replying to was: High powers in Indiana and what i believe will be COMING TO IOWA: High power proposal. Yes, I get it. I'm not even stating the damage of this bill, I'm going on to what we'll see down the road with High powers, more seasons, crossbows, all the new regs we will see pushed by politicians and special interests.

"SELFISH"..... Nope, the opposite.... In all honesty, this doesn't impact me. This would have impacted me 15 years ago when all I hunted was "by permission land" but now I have my own farm I can protect and keep these stupid regulations away from. Far from selfish. I am thinking of the little guy or how I had to hunt 15 years ago. those are the guys I'm looking out for and I know those are the ones that will be hurt. They already are hurting. How many folks do we all know and talk to EVERY YEAR "lost my ground", "no where to go", "my hunt got ruined again cause 5 guys on this little farm", "man, a lot more hunting pressure than it used to be", etc, etc. Every Liberal regulation change just chips away at the every day hunter's access & quality of hunting.

WISCONSIN, SERIOUSLY? I know 2 people I can think of that travel up to Wisconsin to hunt. The ONLY reason they do it is to be in the "middle of the forest" and peace & quiet. I've never seen them take anything over 2 years old. The good areas, like Buffalo county and similar - they are so tied up, there's ZERO access, almost zero at least. It's owned almost completely by hunters trying to create their own management system. The upper parts of the state, I have many friends who usually see 0 - 10 deer PER WEEK. Is there good pockets in WI? SURE! Why do I know over a dozen landowners within a 10 mile radius of me from WISCONSIN? Because they decided they wanted to DRIVE 5-10 HOURS to come hunt Iowa where we still have a good age structure & management. The amount of people driving 5-10 hours the opposite direction, I have to struggle to think of them and again, it's either them going to the "big forest" get away or they have a premium place like the managed farms in Buffalo county.

So, just because you only know 2 that travel to wisconsin, that must mean nobody else does? Right.

If you truly want to open up land access for hunting, do away with party shotgun hunting.

This post is about straight wall centerfire cartridges. Not "high powers". I'm not even sure what a "high power" is? All I know for rifles is centerfire and rimfire?

Now lets get back to the issue at hand. I don't see "more seasons" happening even if we eventually did go to crimped cartridges, they would just be entered into the existing shotgun seasons. Even still, I don't see that decimating the herd.

 

[Tin Roof]

I understand the convenience factor for young hunters to use smaller calibers. I just don't think realistically it will recruit more young hunters. I don't think this bill is the end of the world. I just know it will be abused by some.

Abused how?
*edit: And while it may not recruit more, it may help to keep more of them interested. Either way it's a win in the long run.

 

[sep0667]

I don't think that the specific rifles that are now legal and going to result in a decline in the herd. It's the what is next after this? A few years from now I can see more being added and potentially changing the season dates or opening up a new season. My fear with these new regulations is what is next, what is going to happen a few years after this???


I agree with Sligh on access being the major deterrent to new hunters, not that they had to shoot a shotgun. I know when I was young I wanted to go deer hunting so bad, I never gave a thought as to what the weapon was, I just wanted to see deer in range and try and get a shot at a deer. I wouldn't think most kids are going to give up or not even go deer hunting because they had to use a shotgun, if that is what made them never go I don't think they wanted to be deer hunting to badly to begin with.

IMO hands down what is going to deter not just kids, but adults alike is access to ground to hunt on. Unless you already know someone that has an in or family it is very tough to get on private land. Sure, some public land can be good. But if you are talking about recruiting average people and kids to deer hunting are they going to want to drive an hour + away from the metropolis to hunt on less pressured ground? I doubt most people that want to give it a try will be that committed just to make that drive multiple times. Access to me is what is driving kids and adults away from hunting. Sharing small parcels with multiple hunters on private ground or hunting less than stellar public ground is not going to get many people to become active and sustainable deer hunters.

 

[floriangeyer]

So, just because you only know 2 that travel to wisconsin, that must mean nobody else does? Right.

This post is about straight wall centerfire cartridges. Not "high powers". I'm not even sure what a "high power" is? All I know for rifles is centerfire and rimfire?

I apologize if I introduced what may be regional slang, but I've always understood a high power rifle to be one designed to discharge center fire, metallic cased ammunition filled with smokeless powder.

As for this what this thread is about; from what I can gather it was created in response to a new law that is about to be passed, and a recurring theme in the responses is a concern that it may result in a slippery slope that could ultimately result in the shotgun season being replaced by a general h̶i̶g̶h̶ ̶p̶o̶w̶e̶r center fire rifle season in this rural, low population density state that we call home.

Why, I'm one of the little "little guys" that supposedly are being "hurt" by such legislation, and are being "looked out for" by senior posters contributing in this thread, and I would like to point out that while this law means nothing to me per se (its not like I'm going to sink a grand into some odd-ball big bore AR-15) , IF it does in fact takes us closer to general center fire deer hunting, that would be a wonderful thing for me, as it would allow me to put more meat on the table of my wife and children in less vacation days (I only have 10 days per year) and without the expense of multiple weapon systems.

And yes, I understand why people who are less interested in an affordable source of healthy protein, and more in trophy mounts to decorate their beautiful houses with, may feel different about the matter. That is fine by me. I just wanted to express my "little guy" POV.

 

[Tin Roof]

Why, I'm one of the little "little guys" that supposedly are being "hurt" by such legislation, and are being "looked out for" by senior posters contributing in this thread, and I would like to point out that while this law means nothing to me per se (its not like I'm going to sink a grand into some odd-ball big bore AR-15) , IF it does in fact takes us closer to general center fire deer hunting, that would be a wonderful thing for me, as it would allow me to put more meat on the table of my wife and children in less vacation days (I only have 10 days per year) and without the expense of multiple weapon systems.
.

Well said. I think there are many that would agree with you, but are afraid to say so.

 

[jkratz5]

It is hard to say what the direct effect of this is on our state in terms of herd and deer quality. We also have a 1 buck rule (all weapons, maximum harvest for the year is 1 buck) here for the year which I really like and since it has been instituted we have seen a huge increase in the buck quality. I can say that since rifles have been introduced the # of deer sightings are down and the sanctuary, no hunting areas, have a huge increase in population. That is about as much information I can provide.

I do know many many many guys who switched to the rifle when it was first introduced with the special cartridges and don't fool yourselves some of those can be designed to really reach out there. This takes some effort and practice but can be done. I know several guys that were busting deer at 300yds plus even with the limited cartridge size. These guys, I am not too worried about as they typically are paying attention to what is going on, much like the practice it takes today with the bows and muzzy's to become proficient at longer shots.

However, once the door opened for all cartridges well that went out the door and this is when I got worried. There are way to many guys that do not know the power of these weapons and the travel of these projectiles. This fall we were standing at one of the gates on our farm in early October and two deer crossed the fence about 500yds out. Was standing there with another 2 guys that hunt this ground shooting the bull when this happened and they said boy I can't wait until rifle season, those would be dead deer. I know that directly behind those deer was an open field 5-6 acres, then an open pasture with 4/5 horses in it 5 acres, then the farmers house, so straight line distance to that house may have been 700yds. Can't say they would have shot for sure but in the heat of the moment my gut tells me that more often than not lead would have been slung and that house was in danger. I quit hunting that farm during firearms season this year and you will not find me anywhere but in the hardwoods during this time due to this. My area is way to populated for these weapons and I would say most of Iowa is too, except for maybe down south.

 

[Tim Hull]

If you do away with party shotgun hunting alot of these hunters will be your crossbow hunters and they will move to archery and there will be less access for bowhunters. Just my opinion.

 

[Droptines]

I'm not buying the argument of straight wall rifles allowing small sized shooters to hunt. I've raised my sons and daughters to shoot and hunt with both bows and shotguns. I'm taking my 12 yr. old grandson turkey hunting Saturday. Should he not be using turkey loads?? There was never a problem in the past and I'm pretty sure all deer hunters who hunt Iowa shotgun have done it their whole lives. I see this as an excuse to broaden both seasons and hunters in the future. Much like muzzleloaders started as an option to use during shotgun seasons. Soon we had an early muzzleloader season. Later we had a late season muzzleloader season also.

 

[Tin Roof]

I'm not buying the argument of straight wall rifles allowing small sized shooters to hunt. I've raised my sons and daughters to shoot and hunt with both bows and shotguns. I'm taking my 12 yr. old grandson turkey hunting Saturday. Should he not be using turkey loads?? There was never a problem in the past and I'm pretty sure all deer hunters who hunt Iowa shotgun have done it their whole lives. I see this as an excuse to broaden both seasons and hunters in the future. Much like muzzleloaders started as an option to use during shotgun seasons. Soon we had an early muzzleloader season. Later we had a late season muzzleloader season also.

Likewise, I'm not buying the argument that straight wall rifle ammo is the gateway drug to guys using .223 AR's with 30 round mags lighting up the woods during a one month rifle only season from October 20th to November 20th.

 

[Tin Roof]

If you do away with party shotgun hunting alot of these hunters will be your crossbow hunters and they will move to archery and there will be less access for bowhunters. Just my opinion.

The only change I would expect to see is 30-40% of the people that party hunt during the gun seasons no longer hunting deer at all. Maybe a few of the ones that still hunt would switch weapons, but I bet most will just stand hunt.

 

[Tin Roof]

This fall we were standing at one of the gates on our farm in early October and two deer crossed the fence about 500yds out. Was standing there with another 2 guys that hunt this ground shooting the bull when this happened and they said boy I can't wait until rifle season, those would be dead deer. I know that directly behind those deer was an open field 5-6 acres, then an open pasture with 4/5 horses in it 5 acres, then the farmers house, so straight line distance to that house may have been 700yds. Can't say they would have shot for sure but in the heat of the moment my gut tells me that more often than not lead would have been slung and that house was in danger..

Did you take advantage of that perfect teaching opportunity to explain to them the danger in that statement?

 

[Droptines]

Likewise, I'm not buying the argument that straight wall rifle ammo is the gateway drug to guys using .223 AR's with 30 round mags lighting up the woods during a one month rifle only season from October 20th to November 20th.

I never thought back in 1970 while carrying my Thompson Center during shotgun season there would be two separate muzzleloader seasons either! And many years you couldn't even shoot a buck with a gun if you filled your tag with the bow!