arm
Leg
I think owing it is the dream. Doing what you want without limitation because it's yours. The American dream!
I think owing it is the dream. Doing what you want without limitation because it's yours. The American dream!
loneranger
Well-Known Member
I have one of those gems-dreams. A small 40 acres that I think has produced Mature deer quite consistently. What do you call "Mature"? I say 3yrs,,and 4 yr olds and 5's. It sometimes takes me many hours but last few yrs I have taken 4s, a 5 and a 6. I do not have that great of neighbors either. Not exactly trophy hunters. I also have been told I picked the worst area for buck hunting in SE Iowa. Aside from hunting, I enjoy my fruit trees,,my garden,,my berries and just watching the song birds along my creek. As has been said, some things you just can't put a price on.
Hardwood11
It is going to be a good fall!
One thing to look at right now, is CRP rates are very competitive. I looked into CRP on my farm by Osceola, and they were $260-280 per acre, which is better than what I am getting for cash rent. I have to wait one year, might wait 2-3 (not sure) but it is a good option.
If you can find a property with half tillable and half timber, you can farm for one year, then put the tillable in CRP---leave some food plots and the CRP can help pay for the farm, and you will have almost all cover.
I saw a farm in Ringgold County awhile back that was a near no-brainer. It is sold now. The farm was 250 acres and sold for $2500/2600 range.... it had $33,000 in CRP and $7,000 in cash rent. That farm cash flowed and was a real nice hunting farm.
If you can find a property with half tillable and half timber, you can farm for one year, then put the tillable in CRP---leave some food plots and the CRP can help pay for the farm, and you will have almost all cover.
I saw a farm in Ringgold County awhile back that was a near no-brainer. It is sold now. The farm was 250 acres and sold for $2500/2600 range.... it had $33,000 in CRP and $7,000 in cash rent. That farm cash flowed and was a real nice hunting farm.
HawkeyeStateHogs
Member
There's always some people who will overpay, especially as prices are dropping. You have to look at averages being paid. Land prices have been dropping for 2 years and will continue to do so until they make sense again. As a whole, not based on a very small percentage of properties bought for killing deer, land values are a direct result of what it can produce, corn/beans for tillable, beef for hay/pasture ground. Corn is back down in the mid $3 range and expected to stay there or drop lower for the next decade, and this year Brazil overtakes the US as the worlds leading soybean producer, which certainly isn't going to raise bean prices. Beef is still relatively high but heading down as herds are being built up very fast, plus the world economy is getting shaky. All of these factors are negative for commodity producers. I strongly believe land prices will continue to drop until 2018-2019, then continue their 4-5% average annual appreciation as has been the case for the past century. If you're buying property because someone has pictures of big bucks, well yeah, you're going to overpay.
Daver
PMA Member
I don't think you are adequately allowing for market segments. I think everyone understands and agrees that tillable land values are declining, due in large part to falling commodity prices. However, I have not seen where recreational ground has been declining, it has been steady to actually increasing from what I have seen. And for the most part, people that are buyers of that type of ground are not overly concerned with associated grain prices. Just a FWIW.
Corn & bean ground is a commodity in a sense. Can find it in maybe 30 or 40 of our states or more. IOWA HUNTING LAND is different..... Some could look at it like a "luxury" - bought for hunting. Just like a "lake house"... Why does a lake house sell for 5x the amount as the same house a half mile away from the water? Luxury & love of XYZ (water, skiiing, beaches, hunting, fishing, shopping, WHATEVER). When something isn't of "critical need" (food, basic shelter, etc) - it's going to follow the stock market, economy in general and extra funds in a person's cash flow. It's why a timbered farm with no loggable trees could still bring, $2, 3, 4k an acre if it's got awesome hunting, even with zero income. Grain could be bringing .50 cents for corn but if the economy is good and people want to hunt, they will pay for it. Remember, here's the key.... Hunting land in IOWA is a very limited Asset that can be bought..... The state consists of 5-6% timbered land and the timber across the border to MO or MN for example is NOT the same thing and bought for the same reasons or of the same quality. Just like "furniture, pools, lake houses, developmental property, etc" - if economy dries up - the demand and prices go down.
Really getting nitpicky.... Yes, rec ground can have part timber and part tillable. Now, both forces (grain & general economy) can impact it BUT.... Now it becomes "how much of what is it?" defining the buyer. 50% timbered farms, even with good tillable are not going to be bought by farmers most the time. 95% tillable won't be bought by hunters most the time (unless in CRP). Apples & Oranges in many ways and 2 different cost drivers. I can buy great corn & bean ground in 4 states around us. I can't find great hunting in most states bordering us. Iowa hunting ground is a very unique animal and a very rare item at the moment. Now, getting even further into the weeds and "nerdy discussion" - while talking about prices and demand.... What would happen to IOWA land prices on timber/rec, if MO changed their gun season to Dec 5 and had a 1 buck rule? Probably reduce Iowa Rec prices to be honest as MO would now rival Iowa and has 5 times the habitat.
But yes, all in all, I see the economy slowing (just my gut, may well be very wrong) and I see grain prices staying flat for 1-2 years. Just like oil prices being low, grain is low, the dollar is strong and we all know this stuff runs cycles. Oil at $40/barrel & $1.75 gas.... We all probably agree at some point in not to distant future, the "clowns" will rally it back to $3-4/gallon through tricks, gimmicks or simply the economic dynamics that impact the markets naturally. Weird world of economics right now. Crash or correct, markets cycle.
Really getting nitpicky.... Yes, rec ground can have part timber and part tillable. Now, both forces (grain & general economy) can impact it BUT.... Now it becomes "how much of what is it?" defining the buyer. 50% timbered farms, even with good tillable are not going to be bought by farmers most the time. 95% tillable won't be bought by hunters most the time (unless in CRP). Apples & Oranges in many ways and 2 different cost drivers. I can buy great corn & bean ground in 4 states around us. I can't find great hunting in most states bordering us. Iowa hunting ground is a very unique animal and a very rare item at the moment. Now, getting even further into the weeds and "nerdy discussion" - while talking about prices and demand.... What would happen to IOWA land prices on timber/rec, if MO changed their gun season to Dec 5 and had a 1 buck rule? Probably reduce Iowa Rec prices to be honest as MO would now rival Iowa and has 5 times the habitat.
But yes, all in all, I see the economy slowing (just my gut, may well be very wrong) and I see grain prices staying flat for 1-2 years. Just like oil prices being low, grain is low, the dollar is strong and we all know this stuff runs cycles. Oil at $40/barrel & $1.75 gas.... We all probably agree at some point in not to distant future, the "clowns" will rally it back to $3-4/gallon through tricks, gimmicks or simply the economic dynamics that impact the markets naturally. Weird world of economics right now. Crash or correct, markets cycle.
^ That's about a good of a summary as there is.
Off Topic: Oil. People simply looking to invest, Oil. Just about guarantee you will double your money within 5 years. Just about.
Off Topic: Oil. People simply looking to invest, Oil. Just about guarantee you will double your money within 5 years. Just about.
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Oct-Lull
Well-Known Member
The problem with trying to make any plans or speculation using grain prices is the weather. The weather can change prices fast depending which way it goes. If we keep getting good weather profit will stay low. Unless you are Milking cows..... Then it's low 80+% of the time it seems.
Sod Savage
Member
If you have plenty of money, where do you want to park it? Saivings account? Nope, The paper stock market? but you probably already have plenty of that, how much exposure do you want? or something that you can stand on, touch, and is real? Land won't drop much. It will always cost too much to some and there will always be someone who pays too much. There are still deals to be had but they pry won't cash flow right away.
Hardwood11
It is going to be a good fall!
^ That's about a good of a summary as there is.
Off Topic: Oil. People simply looking to invest, Oil. Just about guarantee you will double your money within 5 years. Just about.
I would agree with this. I lost some money on one of my oil stocks, but been buying more. Some of these oil stocks will double/triple, and a few are paying good dividends.
Also agree with Skip on the uniqueness of Iowa for buying land. Let me add, that if you can find the right farm with tillable and CRP, you will have yourself a heck of nice asset to retire with as well as good hunting.
Once the farm is paid off the cash rent or CRP can be used to supplement your pension/401k/IRA/savings/social security, etc... Watch the next couple of years for these type of buys.
Iowa_Buckeye
Active Member
Oil/fracking stocks. CHK dropped to a low of $1.50 back in Feb. Just looked and it is trading at $6.12 today. A lucky buyer could have quadrupled their investment in just 2 months. Too bad I bought it last year....
Oil seems to be on it way back up. If you could actually hit one of these right, you could be well on your way to your new farm!
Oil seems to be on it way back up. If you could actually hit one of these right, you could be well on your way to your new farm!
BJohnson
Well-Known Member
Agreed. The equity market can be brutal at times. Diversification, like anything, is the key but still cannot save you in times of ugly corrections like 08. Hindsight will always provide examples of tremendous gains and losses that appear so obvious after the fact. However, individual stock selections are very difficult to consistently time correctly.
Who needs Vegas !!!!!
Who needs Vegas !!!!!
^ reason why I would go with ETFs or other diversified investments in the sector IF you believe oil will be back to at least $85/barrel in time (I do).
CHK.... scary scary deal there. Not even sure they are going to make it out alive.
CHK.... scary scary deal there. Not even sure they are going to make it out alive.
My retirement (ok, I'll never retire, ever) will be farm income & crp. and vast tracts of timber I've managed for veneer walnuts & oaks.
My confidence in myself & my own abilities stop there on the investments.. I have stocks but I let my father in law pick how my Ira & 401k are diversed. I honestly believe a group of teenagers who r huffing paint, sniffing glue and whacked out- tripping on Mescaline would make better stock choices than me.
My confidence in myself & my own abilities stop there on the investments.. I have stocks but I let my father in law pick how my Ira & 401k are diversed. I honestly believe a group of teenagers who r huffing paint, sniffing glue and whacked out- tripping on Mescaline would make better stock choices than me.