dbltree
Super Moderator
The "gobbler" version just produces a smaller acorn in larger quanities, at least that's what I was told a dozen or so years ago when I planted mine.
I believe all of my sawtooth oaks are the standard variety and still haven't produced acorns.
Looking back if I had it to do over again I would have stuck with native hybrid oaks which still can produce acorns in 6-10 years and and would have a higher timber value.
Sawtooths are basically like shingle oaks...worthless except for acorn production.
I'm really excited about the Dwarf Chinkapin Oaks and the hybrid bur-english and bur-gamble oaks I'm planting this year.
Check the tree planting thread for links to nurseries such as Oiko's Tree Crops and others before you spend money on sawtooth's....
dbltree
Super Moderator
letemgrow has recieved his so I expect mine any day now...it's possible that I may share a pic or two when they arrive...
:grin::grin:
letemgrow
PMA Member
I agree Paul,
Stick to the natives as much as possible. I was sent some sawtooth oaks acorns in a swap, but decided to feed the squirrels in town with them instead of planting on the farm. If they produce that many acorns as they say, what will the forest look like in 100-150 years?? I would imagine they would displace quite a few of the native oaks.
I am impressed with the ID state trees (bur x english), they are like the oikos dwarf chinkapin oaks, but the root mass is about twice the size which is in no way depressing.
Stick to the natives as much as possible. I was sent some sawtooth oaks acorns in a swap, but decided to feed the squirrels in town with them instead of planting on the farm. If they produce that many acorns as they say, what will the forest look like in 100-150 years?? I would imagine they would displace quite a few of the native oaks.
I am impressed with the ID state trees (bur x english), they are like the oikos dwarf chinkapin oaks, but the root mass is about twice the size which is in no way depressing.
dbltree
Super Moderator
I certainly understand your concerns about costs, that's what prompted me to use sawtooths years ago.
I feel differently now and for acorn production...do I really need "thousands"?? A dozen oaks that produce the sweetest acorns around will do more then hundreds that just have "lots" of acorns.
Tannin levels are a "big deal" when it comes to acorns and deer will search out these sweet high energy acorns when available. Sawtooths are a member of the redoak species which has high tannin levels making them more bitter then white oak species.
The NWTF has promoted the gobbler sawtooths but turkeys don't worry about "taste" I suspect.
I feel the same principle applies to oaks as to apples, plant a few as my budget allows, give them plenty of TLC and reap the benefits sooner rather then later.
Please keep in mind that even here in SE Iowa, we are on the northen fringe of acceptable climate for sawtooths which really thrive in southern states. There are producing trees in MI and PA but extreme cold weather can be hard on them while leaving natives unphazed.
I'm starting to wonder if mine will ever produce??
letemgrow
PMA Member
If you are on the QDMA forum, there is a lot of seed swapping that goes on there every fall. I received a few different hybrid native oaks to plant and the only cost associated was shipping seed.
KSQ2
PMA Member
Dbltree, it's good to know that I'm not the only one who cannot plant oaks by the 100s. One thing about our property that might make it somewhat different from others is the fact that there are almost no oaks on the property. We have lots of sycamore, pecan, hedge, hackberry, cedars, elm, and some walnut trees. ANY oak trees are going to be an improvement over the few blackjacks we have right now. The reading I've done on sawtooths says even though they are red oaks, they're acorns have lower than most tannin levels.
In your fellas' opinions, now knowing more about our timber situation, which would be better, 25-50 sawtooth oaks planted all at one time, or 10-15 total hybred oaks planted 4-5 at a time? One more thing, these oaks will be planted in an open area, with virtually no tree competition.
One more thing, what are these "Idaho state trees" you guys speak of, and how would one go about getting them this fall or next year?
One thing about our property that might make it somewhat different from others is the fact that there are almost no oaks on the property. We have lots of sycamore, pecan, hedge, hackberry, cedars, elm, and some walnut trees. ANY oak trees are going to be an improvement over the few blackjacks we have right now. The reading I've done on sawtooths says even though they are red oaks, they're acorns have lower than most tannin levels.In your fellas' opinions, now knowing more about our timber situation, which would be better, 25-50 sawtooth oaks planted all at one time, or 10-15 total hybred oaks planted 4-5 at a time? One more thing, these oaks will be planted in an open area, with virtually no tree competition.
One more thing, what are these "Idaho state trees" you guys speak of, and how would one go about getting them this fall or next year?
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dbltree
Super Moderator
For 2 bucks a piece I would at least consider ordering some bur-english and bur-gambel hybrid oaks from UI Nursery
UI Pitkin Forest Nursery
There is no minimum order so you can order 10 or 20 but just order early because they sell out quickly!
These seedlings are going to be way ahead of any sawtooths!
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I would also pay close attention to our discussions about planting with acorns because the cost is a fraction of that of seedlings.
The Dwarf Chinkapins we ordered from Oiko's were $2.40 a piece when ordering a 100 so we pooled an order and split it, so keep that in mind for next year.
DCO's can produce in 3-5 years and that's way ahead of sawtooths.
If my sawtooths were producing and deer were flocking to them, perhaps I would be "singing a diffrerent tune" but after 12 years I'm not so high on them.
How many oaks do you need? Ask letemgrow...how much wildlife are drawn to one chinkapin oak....
UI Pitkin Forest Nursery
There is no minimum order so you can order 10 or 20 but just order early because they sell out quickly!
These seedlings are going to be way ahead of any sawtooths!
I would also pay close attention to our discussions about planting with acorns because the cost is a fraction of that of seedlings.
The Dwarf Chinkapins we ordered from Oiko's were $2.40 a piece when ordering a 100 so we pooled an order and split it, so keep that in mind for next year.
DCO's can produce in 3-5 years and that's way ahead of sawtooths.
If my sawtooths were producing and deer were flocking to them, perhaps I would be "singing a diffrerent tune" but after 12 years I'm not so high on them.
How many oaks do you need? Ask letemgrow...how much wildlife are drawn to one chinkapin oak....
letemgrow
PMA Member
The hybrid oaks all the way, but I would see what soil types you have, well drained etc and match the best hybrid oaks for your area.
goatman
I hunt days ending in Y
Not sure why but my gobbler sawtooth have produced acorns in less than 10 years. Two years ago was the first at age 9. Quite a few the first time but last year not very many. No danger of spreading them. My goats eat them as they fall. I did plant some bur-english hybrids from Oikos. They grew alot their year.
dbltree
Super Moderator
I think we ordred back in late December and they were running out in early January!
I would think about ordering in November even...
letemgrow
PMA Member
letemgrow
PMA Member
Right on!!!! In good soils they could grow to 25 feet in 5 years. A good species indicator for best growth is northern red oaks since they like well drained, north, ne, or east facing slopes the best.
I ordered Dwarf Chinquapins (thanks Dbltree) this year and they are in the ground. If you spent $100 you could get some sweet trees and just BABY & PROTECT them!
For Gobbler and regular Sawtooths, I planted BOTH. Both were the same price from NWTF. I did plant in a unique area without other trees so I could watch them if they did spread down the road.
I would just do some of EVERYTHING if it were ME. Tons of varieties sure can't hurt because all trees have ups and downs. They don't take as much room as you think. Heck, you can do 600 different trees on one acre if you wanted. Let's say you did 20 trees of each variety- that's obviously 30 different tree varieties on 1 acre. Don't put all your eggs in one basket- diversify! (IMO). Go heavier on trees with proven record like DCO's. OBVIOUSLY just make sure you make the extra effort of protecting them, maintaining for weeds, etc- especially if you go with lower quantities. HAve fun!
For Gobbler and regular Sawtooths, I planted BOTH. Both were the same price from NWTF. I did plant in a unique area without other trees so I could watch them if they did spread down the road.
I would just do some of EVERYTHING if it were ME. Tons of varieties sure can't hurt because all trees have ups and downs. They don't take as much room as you think. Heck, you can do 600 different trees on one acre if you wanted. Let's say you did 20 trees of each variety- that's obviously 30 different tree varieties on 1 acre. Don't put all your eggs in one basket- diversify! (IMO). Go heavier on trees with proven record like DCO's. OBVIOUSLY just make sure you make the extra effort of protecting them, maintaining for weeds, etc- especially if you go with lower quantities. HAve fun!
letemgrow
PMA Member
You are right Skip,
plant multiple varities on every site and favor what takes off and grows the best as not all will be created equal for every soil type, terrain, moisture etc. What helps me the most, see what trees are already growing on certain sites and look for more beneficial trees that are associated with trees already growing there.
plant multiple varities on every site and favor what takes off and grows the best as not all will be created equal for every soil type, terrain, moisture etc. What helps me the most, see what trees are already growing on certain sites and look for more beneficial trees that are associated with trees already growing there.