The thing is- everyone wants to talk about getting rid of party hunting during shotgun and getting rid of the straightwalls/stopping more cartridges, this is a true problem as well. A guy that lives down the road bragged last year he shot his smokeless muzzleloader and killed his target buck at 604 yards. (and my cousin will vouch, it was a true deal) From his back porch, literally all the way to the edge of the public he was hunting this deer on.
Season over December 31
- Thread starter Hardwood11
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Rjack
Well-Known Member
I generally agree, but there are possible issues on the gun season. If you set it by dates as you described, you could have a 5 day season with no weekend. Or, are you just suggesting taking the current gun 2 to 5 days instead of 9? If so, that looks like it will put the vast majority of the hunters in gun 1. Unless there are calendar conflicts, the only incentive for gun 2 is 2 weekends. Take that away and I think 90% of the gun hunters will be in gun 1.
Windlooker
Well-Known Member
Every year we see lobbyists push legislators to recommend new law often to the detriment of hunting and current regs. Do we have a legislator who is willing to suggest legislation to reel things back????
Once the cat gets out of bag- it’s so hard to put it back in. On anything!!!…..
Straight walls, smokeless, u name it. That’s the key…. The easiest fight is not allowing Anything else!!!! We all know it’s gone too far. So much easier to fight off new things than removing things that have been legalized. NO MORE!!!!!
& folks always have the perception “u can’t take that away” when it comes to seasons or lengths. U could change it to “6 months long” for 2024. Let the deer season stay that long a few years. The second someone wants to dial it back to “5 months” ….. “oh heck no!!!!! We’ll lose hunters. I won’t have enough time!!” It’s 4.5 months long right now. I honestly don’t get how anyone can’t be like “hmmmm. Bit excessive” but that’s me & I am open minded and practical on what is realistic for changes.
The perplexing issue: hunters in past not voicing up when all these new seasons & weapons proposed. Used to be crickets…. When it goes the other way & dial things back, we have a fit or can’t agree? That’s such an odd reaction difference to 2 polar opposite directions & outcomes.
We are at HALF the deer harvest vs our peak at 2005. & I would say a lot of the reduction in harvest happened in the “easy to hunt” - more open areas - above I-80 for example. Areas with “some deer” that are now void of deer. We are for sure down & “stable” - which in some regards is good. I have a feeling the trend is going down further with shed buck season back, incentives to shoot more does & earn more buck tags + EHD devastation.
Thinkin Rut
PMA Member
If you rolled the regs back 20 years, you wouldn't have to change anything from that point. The party hunting with a doe tag kinda chafes my ass though...not sure when that came about. This might be one of the "if money was no object" items. Buy the SOBs off.
chipterp
PMA Member
The deer hunting landscape has changed and reducing tags to 1 or shortening late muzzy by 10 days I don’t see making any difference. With every timber, ditch and crop field edge getting hunted it would be hard to make a difference. Leasing doesn’t help the situation , cell cams are a problem, nrlos pretending to be residents is a problem. Outfitters that didn’t used to be so prevalent running tons of guys through don’t help. Take your pick. And as for harvest numbers we are guilty as charged also for just shooting a few does a year but mainly trophy hunting. Southeast iowa is still overrun with does .
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literally “everyone” in Se iowa I talk to is pulling their hair out due to outfitters. I’ve got a pile of buddies in my old stomping ground of VB county & spoke with a guy last week who had THREE different outfitters next to him!!!! One is bad enough. 3!!!!
Here’s what i don’t get…. I don’t know of ONE near me. Not one. How are there that many in that area?!!?!? Zone 6 or whatever - the tags are by definition limited. The ONE question or concern I’d have & I have zero information & not making accusation…. But…. If I hear “they churning guys through”…. Might just be that. OR- they taking guys through without tags (doubt it but possible). Party hunting loop hole. Or they are taking Resident hunters? Or there’s that much demand that there’s a never ending list of guys wanting an outfitted hunt. All 3 of the last add clearly totally legal.
I’ll say this to ANYONE who has not been around outfitters…. I’ll piss some guys off but I’m not the one trying to profit off this & all I can do is be honest…. Outfitters are a plague 9 out of 10 times. Ruin an area. Cancer to an area.
On other side of it- there is the “1 of 10” that do it right. & in full transparency- there’s 2 on here I would fit into that category- limited & conservative. For 90% though- it’s a complete disaster. I would sell my farm in a nano-second if I had an outfitter next to it. I’d rather have state land or guys doing gun pushes. Sounds crazy but it’s true. Gun drive dudes don’t usually cherry pick the best genetic bucks & miss most. They aren’t out all season pounding the land with countless hunters like outfitters. Outfitters are the absolute worst neighbor I’ve personally been around. & this is vast experiences in IL, IA & KS - complete train wreck.
BOTTOM LINE:
Do I wish they all went away? Absolutely!!!!!! Would I ban them? NO. I don’t think that’s right from a legal standpoint. Would I sell my land or leave an area if they were around me? ABSOFRIGINLUTELY!!!!!!!!
DO WE NEED TO ALLOCATE MORE TAGS TO OUTFITTERS AS A STATE? HECK NO!!!!!!! & because they are a SPECIAL INTEREST that cares about $ over the resource - they will pay lobbyists or donate to politicians for their special tags added. & WE, AS A STATE & RESIDENTS WILL SAY: “NO!!!! OUR STATE IS NOT FOR SALE”. By definition, outfitters reduce & eliminate access to resident hunters. Which at its current level - runs into the NR allocation. & it’s already problematic enough. They target best gen bucks & usually before maturity. Destroy neighborhoods. Ruin access to residents.
Do other activities or hunting trends do some of the same thing in various cases? YEP. But- we DO NOT need to give them MORE TAGS to increase their # & exacerbate the problem we already have!!! The #1 issue: access for residents to quality hunting land. Leave our Frigin regs and tag allotments alone!!!!! U wanna outfit ….. Illinois has been for sale for decades…. Enjoy that dumpster fire for outfitting there. Ruined most areas.
In all fairness…. Not here to eliminate outfitting- but sure as heck ain’t gonna sell this state out & throw more tags at them!!!! Leave this state alone!!!!
iowavf
Active Member
Good points that I have mentioned before about habitat, or lack of in places. I might be wrong, but guessing most who're wanting shorter gun seasons and no party hunting are bowhunters who didn't see as many trophy bucks this year? I think EHD killed a lot more deer in the heavily populated areas than we know, yet the orange army and party hunting gets the most blame because it's not how some like to hunt! I know hunters who just like to eat deer and will usually take younger deer which I don't have a problem with because they buy a tag just like me.
Been deer hunting since the early 70's when not everyone even got a tag. For those who started in the late 90's and early 2000's, you're got in at the prime years. We'll never get back to those deer numbers statewide again because there's just not enough habitat for those numbers.
I dont mind shotgun season one bit, but there are a lot of things that need to be better tightened up on it. I live up in the north, we have no cover and no deer, something has to give up here. Shortening shotgun season WOULD help up here, because- YOU CANT PUSH THEM OUT IN THE OPEN FOR DAYS ON END. Literally, you push them into a mile by mile wide open section, and the guys slaughter the whole group and pound their chests they shot deer. On the flip side, let me bowhunt during gun season. I will wear orange, but the FIRST thing you hear from gunners- its not fair they can still hunt! I will buy a gun tag and use my bow, but people still complain. You will never make everyone happy. And its VERY area dependent on what needs to be done to help address the numbers of both deer and hunter access. From my place going north for 7 miles along the river is ALL leased up, by 2 guys. There are plenty of deer because of how they have it that way, which then limits access, deer move from the more open areas to their piece, and now again, everyone is complaining they arent seeing deer and have no where to hunt. Its a vicious circle, it really is.
(Also- that goes for every season where they drive deer. And up here, its literally every season they do it because its easy)
So I will add to this- and not sure why it just was a thought- mainly because I am not for it but would be a good way to manage areas. Why not make zones for the residents. Your tag is good in this zone, and only this zone. You want a different tag, you buy a different zone. Break the state into 3 zones, 5 zones, whatever. Would that allow a less knee jerk reaction for adjusting numbers? Just a thought to add to the puzzle.
I listen to way to many podcasts, some skip character is always on and gives me crazy ideas. I blame him
jkratz5
Well-Known Member
I live and hunt in states that have implemented so many of the changes that IA is currently going thru.
In Illinois we have: unlimited NR tags, unlimited doe tags, crossbows, now straight walls.
Of all of them the unlimited tags hurts the worst, by far. Land is all leased up and outfitters generally do a piss poor job managing. We are lucky to have a good outfitter around us that manages, but most of the state big time impact.
Straight walls - no difference, I can shoot a slug as far as a straight wall……. But I live in Indiana and straight walls lead to full blown rifle season…… so it is going to happen in IA (mark my word) and it is gonna crush the deer!!!
Indiana went to a 1 buck rule - it does help with the other stupid things we have done but the rifles still hurt bad.
I would say the rifles are your number 1 thing to keep out, that snowball is already rolling - it took 4 years here to go from straight wall to full rifles - time is ticking for IA.
In Illinois we have: unlimited NR tags, unlimited doe tags, crossbows, now straight walls.
Of all of them the unlimited tags hurts the worst, by far. Land is all leased up and outfitters generally do a piss poor job managing. We are lucky to have a good outfitter around us that manages, but most of the state big time impact.
Straight walls - no difference, I can shoot a slug as far as a straight wall……. But I live in Indiana and straight walls lead to full blown rifle season…… so it is going to happen in IA (mark my word) and it is gonna crush the deer!!!
Indiana went to a 1 buck rule - it does help with the other stupid things we have done but the rifles still hurt bad.
I would say the rifles are your number 1 thing to keep out, that snowball is already rolling - it took 4 years here to go from straight wall to full rifles - time is ticking for IA.
Still remember old Mike Pence signing that disaster in for rifles in Indiana. I knew back then he was not real bright and a typical sell out hack.
Rifles & crossbows. Disasters. & we say “iowa is great with its late gun season”…. U put crossguns in archery- u basically changed what kept iowa great. Or what kept it from getting trashed like other states. We all know- it’s not ONE THING…. It’s usually 3-4 things. Add any of these up & it would be game over: crossguns for able bodied all archery. Rifles. Flood gates on tags. More outfitter tags. Etc etc. It’s almost never one thing. 2 or 3 of those- we would be totally ruined. One of those would be a big punch to gut. No reason for any of it. We as hunters can’t define what is ok’d by: “well that won’t completely ruin us”. We must define it as “what can we do to make things better. Better manage our fragile resource & fix the issues we face currently?”
IMHO- Indiana needs to move that rifle season back to December 1. With 1 buck…. OH MY GOSH.
ILLINOIS needs to go to: 1 buck. Limit NR’s significantly more than they do. & “be great” - push gun seasons back 7-10 more days. If they did that- best state in country.
MO- same thing!!! Dec 1 gun. Limit NR’s & 1 buck limit. If they did that- again, best state in country.
If MO, IL, IN, MN & WI all did these things… iowa would be #6 in the nation. Behind these 5. Every single hunter in every single one of those states would have a far better quality experience. It would alleviate this mad rush to lock up land & it would overwhelm the system with a balanced age class of bucks - taking pressure off of so many areas that are crippling the future of hunting. The pressure to buy up IA & KS is obscene & other states could totally release these pressure valves if they used a drop of common sense. This is not complex!!!! “Copy iowa with a couple improvements!!!!” (Like one buck). This ain’t complex folks. We know how both stories go- mimic iowa- every single person - casual to serious has better experience & quality of resource. Pressure to lock down the little quality land subsides (& that pressure is overwhelming & can’t sustain currently). Keep doing same thing- hunter’s will quit at huge rates & ground will get more locked up each year. Simple choices. & they are choices!!!! This ain’t hard stuff folks.
Hardwood11
It is going to be a good fall!
It would be refreshing to hear any DNR employee in any state reference a plan for deer survival !!
Private land, public land, you name it … how can more deer survive ? Wouldn’t that be new?
Private land, public land, you name it … how can more deer survive ? Wouldn’t that be new?
Hair&Scales
Member
Each season would have 1 weekend. If you didn't change anything else, landowners would still have 10 days or two weekends during shotgun to fill their tags.
tall@wide
PMA Member
Agreed! Landowners who run friends and family members thru all season are bad, but outfitters are the worst. They can destroy a neighborhood quick..if you think about it, everyone books this hunt and plans vacation in advance. They come to shoot something and not have tag soup..The outfitter clients usually shoot all the good genetic 2-3 year old bucks in the neighborhood..I've dealt with this in illinois, and it was worse than a disaster.
Rjack
Well-Known Member
I still think this will put 90% of the gun hunters in season 1 as there is no incentive to pick season 2. That seems like it creates far more potential conflicts and safety issues.
Thinkin Rut
PMA Member
The DNR knows exactly what they are doing. Don't get that twisted. Until tag sales really get hit and they feel the lost revenue, the chances of turning them is low. They'll ride the perception of Iowa being the #1 state for whitetails while destroying it from the inside. As long as they can show big bucks on these insulated properties, people will still buy tags and nothing will change.
It's the DNR and states job to manage the outfitters and deer. They could even manage high powers and X bows if they really wanted to...with season lengths and quotas. They just don't, they don't want to. Having their cake and eating too. You'd probably get more out of a tag boycott in a sense...buy only what you absolutely need, than going to a so called town hall meeting and have them tell you what you want to hear. Just my 2
Hair&Scales
Member
I think you are looking at it wrong. If the reasoning for having 2 weekends for gun 2 is so that working guys can have 2 weekends to hunt then as of now that would reason that 90 percent of guys would be hunting 2nd gun right now according to your logic.
Different guys pick different factors.
Gun 1 benefit deer are not yet pressured.
Gun 2 benefit if you land manage a lot of deer get pushed into your ground from gun 1, weather may be benefical, example snow on ground.
I see people asking on FB whether or not their kids youth tag can be used for the antlerless seasons after Jan 10th... Right there is the reason I am against a floating tag, we are just going to keep hunting and hunting and hunting, pressuring deer, and very honestly, potentially burning out after 4 MONTHS of being able to hunt... Somewhere you have to teach people that there is an end of season and sometimes you dont get one right?? I mean, you can argue all day with me that it gives kids the opportunity, but again, teaching them that there are seasons, and not all seasons end with deer is a more valuable lesson to me- but usually I am in the minority....