We'll see. Farm bureau argues we are over populated. Eye roll
Shotgun hunting observation
- Thread starter IowaBowHunter1983
- Start date
-
- Tags
- None
Hardwood11
It is going to be a good fall!
I think you are right in your assessment, but it won’t ever go back to the old days. I could see this coming 25 years ago and starting to buy land as a result, for my family, a place for my boys to hunt and use for recreation!
Permission farms are just a huge bonus, if you can hunt without buying or leasing, consider yourself fortunate!! Appreciate it—do not expect it !!
It’s changed all over (almost every state) even pheasant hunting is getting impossible to get permission. It will only get more difficult in the next decades!
sep0667
Land of the Whitetail
The decline in access is a huge reason why I bought. I could see 5, 10 15, 20+ years from now if I want to keep hunting I need to own ground. I've lost several permission pieces, so buying became a priority.
Another thing that I think needs addressed and is probably less likely to change is habitat. Farmers have to make money, its a business, I understand. But man, seeing fence lines, waterways, and wooded drainage ditches continue to get ripped out is totally depressing. Driving to my farm this weekend and another area to pheasant hunt seeing habitat continue to get dozed out sucks. Seeing dozers and excavators parked in fields ready to do damage just makes me cringe. Seeing huge brush piles where there use to be strips of timber and waterways is sad It just seems so wrong. I see entire square mile sections that is just totally wide open now with only the remnants of what use to be piled up in a half dozen huge brush piles ready to be burned.
For example just yesterday afternoon I drove around a few sections after pheasant hours were up just see if I could spot any deer/turkey/pheasant out. This was a 120 piece that was in what I assume was crp (use to be tall/brushy grass) with wooded creek drainages. Its all dozed out, gone. The west and south edges are the road. The fence lines along the road are now gone, these little drainages are gone, east fence line is gone. Its just sad. It will be a wide open corn/bean rotation now I assume. This is largely hilly ground, going to farm those steep slopes right up to the road and creek. Will never be the same. In an area like this reducing the doe tags wont do anything since the habitat is now gone. This area just continues to get chipped away, 15 years from now there may be nothing left but corn and beans. I dont want to tell people what to do on their own private property, but it just feels like ripping out those little wooded water ways and edges of them should be illegal. This held deer, turkey, pheasants, now it will be a wildlife desert.
Another thing that I think needs addressed and is probably less likely to change is habitat. Farmers have to make money, its a business, I understand. But man, seeing fence lines, waterways, and wooded drainage ditches continue to get ripped out is totally depressing. Driving to my farm this weekend and another area to pheasant hunt seeing habitat continue to get dozed out sucks. Seeing dozers and excavators parked in fields ready to do damage just makes me cringe. Seeing huge brush piles where there use to be strips of timber and waterways is sad It just seems so wrong. I see entire square mile sections that is just totally wide open now with only the remnants of what use to be piled up in a half dozen huge brush piles ready to be burned.
For example just yesterday afternoon I drove around a few sections after pheasant hours were up just see if I could spot any deer/turkey/pheasant out. This was a 120 piece that was in what I assume was crp (use to be tall/brushy grass) with wooded creek drainages. Its all dozed out, gone. The west and south edges are the road. The fence lines along the road are now gone, these little drainages are gone, east fence line is gone. Its just sad. It will be a wide open corn/bean rotation now I assume. This is largely hilly ground, going to farm those steep slopes right up to the road and creek. Will never be the same. In an area like this reducing the doe tags wont do anything since the habitat is now gone. This area just continues to get chipped away, 15 years from now there may be nothing left but corn and beans. I dont want to tell people what to do on their own private property, but it just feels like ripping out those little wooded water ways and edges of them should be illegal. This held deer, turkey, pheasants, now it will be a wildlife desert.
Everyone says landowners should get rid of a tag- and that’s my fear- you get rid of it and now you are giving more reasons to get rid of habitat. Better yet, let’s revamp the LOT system, require only the name on the deed to get a tag if you have habitat. Impossible I know- but a guy who owns 420 of only farm ground not near a woods- where is he hunting exactly? My uncle would be a prime example- who had gotten a tag for years but then ripped every tree on his farm out. So he goes and hunts a piece he rents- I’m not a fan personally. If your name isn’t on the deed, no go. I think could solve a lot of problems in Iowa as well by doing that. We will never win the habitat battle in Iowa with farmers- I know that.
booneriverbucks
PMA Member
I don’t necessarily have an opinion either way on what you said. I would just be cautious on wanting to touch anything to do with the landowner tag if you enjoy having use of it. Many think it shouldn’t be available to begin with and others would argue having habitat has nothing to do with receiving the tag. Many farmers think it’s their right to that tag because of crop damage and only for that reason. In their mind your deer habitat is helping destroying their crops. People with that line of thinking could easily try to flip the script and take away the tag for those with mainly habitat and less crops.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hardwood11
It is going to be a good fall!
I talked to a guy that was hunting a 25 acre parcel (permission farm) in Minnesota . He had hunted it for 40+ years with good success. It was nice small parcel in a good location . He even helped plant pine/spruce trees and they were 20-25 feet tall-great bedding! I’ve driven by it 1000x times and thought that a nice piece !!
To make a long story short this guy went out to open the gate & hunt and the lock was changed! New signs were up.
Someone had bought it and he had no idea who the new owner was, and his ladder stands and blinds were still on the 25 acres.
He was understandably pissed about it. He’s still not sure if he will get them back ?
This kind of underscores the access factor. It could be gone tomorrow for guys that rely on verbal permission to hunt. Times have really changed, and it’s not what I like to see—but it’s hard reality !
To make a long story short this guy went out to open the gate & hunt and the lock was changed! New signs were up.
Someone had bought it and he had no idea who the new owner was, and his ladder stands and blinds were still on the 25 acres.
He was understandably pissed about it. He’s still not sure if he will get them back ?
This kind of underscores the access factor. It could be gone tomorrow for guys that rely on verbal permission to hunt. Times have really changed, and it’s not what I like to see—but it’s hard reality !
That’s why they get depredation tags- and I agree- it’s a very slippery slope, especially in Iowa where we have such little habitat. I think tweaking can be done to both LOT tags and the Depredation program. I don’t think either should be removed, unless Iowa went to 1 buck state- then I think serious talks about both need to be had. Depredation tags especially- they shouldn’t be allowed to shoot bucks, but that’s a whole different slippery slope
Serious question- and this is a broad question for everyone- how long is your “verbal permission” good for?
For example- a guy asked 3 years ago and never stopped again- does he assume he still has permission?
I had a guy 3 years ago ask if his kid could sit my fence row for youth- hadn’t heard from him nor did he ask again- but here he was this year, sitting in the fence row with his kid again…. I walked out (how I knew who it was) and talked to him and he literally said- well you told me I could a couple years ago…… really????
Hardwood11
It is going to be a good fall!
Wow …It should be discussed every year !
In the case of the guy in Minnesota. He had hunted with the husband of the current owner (the husband died)! The wife basically said you do not have to ask to hunt ! No problem!
Well that must have changed, because the land sold and he never got a chance to buy it . He would have bought it .
booneriverbucks
PMA Member
Thats what depredation tags “should” be for. Many landowners question why they need a tag at all no matter how dumb we think that sounds and obtaining depredation tags is too much “work” for them as it is. I totally understand every point you are making but those that don’t will sure cry for the opposite. In their eyes we get the privilege to shoot some of their deer and they have plenty of money and influence to make people in power think/vote the same way
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
sep0667
Land of the Whitetail
I have two permission peices, hunted each close to 15 years. I ask permission every year. It wouldnt feel right to me to pull in to hunt having not asked for that current season.
Matthewfox_45
Well-Known Member
I have 3 different places that I’ve hunted or trapped on for years. One is owned by one of my closest friends. I contact them every year, and let thrm know when I’m going to be out, just to be respectful
I farm and will assuredly tick some farmers off here but our tax dollars are going to heavily subsidize crop insurance which can be manipulated to guarantee profits from ground that should NOT be farmed. The dozing out of trees and ditches comes from that profitability that has been guaranteed through crop insurance. And now the new extension to the farm bill has payments in it for row crop farmers and the benchmark for the argument to make the payments is that farm profits are down significantly over the past two years. Fair enough, but 2024 farm profits are above the 10 year average. The government payments, outlandish farm profits realized the past few years and significant crop insurance subsidies have supported the demise of habitat and soil resources.
bwese
Active Member
The reasons that have been stated in this thread for IA's deer hunting going to Hades are the same reasons its going there in many other states(if not all). I think the number one issue is habitat. Habitat is going extinct and people that are willing to do or have what it takes to own land are the only ones that will have quality deer herds to hunt, Mature, probably not unless they own many, many acres.
The states will never be able to manage for the numbers we'd like to see as there won't be habitat for it, and even if there was, there are so many powerful groups that will not let them do so. The DNR has many masters. In my opinion, the only way to manage deer herds in one's area is to manage one's property with the aim to improve the herd and age class, if that is what one desires.
Here in NE, I know, one of the "crappy states", habitat is being torn out at light speed, it hasn't slowed since the 6+ dollar corn and as has been mentioned, our government encourages destruction of habitat on land that shouldn't be farmed to be farmed.
In two units of the state I know well, there are hunters on any tiny bit of habitat that could possibly hold a deer. The deer that are alive in those areas at the beginning of Archery on Sept 1 will have a hard time being alive by the end of December and any antlerless deer has to hold out until Jan. 15. Smart survivors will yard up on properties that don't have the pressure or any hunting. Age class is a fantasy in most areas of this state and I'm betting the majority of all whitetail states.
From reading this thread it sounds like IA has the same fragmentized deer hunting opportunities. The areas of quality hunting are where there are large land holdings or large river drainages. Everywhere else its people just trying to hunt deer on the places they can get on to and will more often than not, take what comes there way as they know they won't be seeing much. They might even have the mentality like many I've talked to in NE, if they don't shoot it the next guy will. It is so hard to change that mindset on people that don't have much opportunities to hunt or much of a place to hunt.
The states will never be able to manage for the numbers we'd like to see as there won't be habitat for it, and even if there was, there are so many powerful groups that will not let them do so. The DNR has many masters. In my opinion, the only way to manage deer herds in one's area is to manage one's property with the aim to improve the herd and age class, if that is what one desires.
Here in NE, I know, one of the "crappy states", habitat is being torn out at light speed, it hasn't slowed since the 6+ dollar corn and as has been mentioned, our government encourages destruction of habitat on land that shouldn't be farmed to be farmed.
In two units of the state I know well, there are hunters on any tiny bit of habitat that could possibly hold a deer. The deer that are alive in those areas at the beginning of Archery on Sept 1 will have a hard time being alive by the end of December and any antlerless deer has to hold out until Jan. 15. Smart survivors will yard up on properties that don't have the pressure or any hunting. Age class is a fantasy in most areas of this state and I'm betting the majority of all whitetail states.
From reading this thread it sounds like IA has the same fragmentized deer hunting opportunities. The areas of quality hunting are where there are large land holdings or large river drainages. Everywhere else its people just trying to hunt deer on the places they can get on to and will more often than not, take what comes there way as they know they won't be seeing much. They might even have the mentality like many I've talked to in NE, if they don't shoot it the next guy will. It is so hard to change that mindset on people that don't have much opportunities to hunt or much of a place to hunt.
NextBuk
Webmaster
Lots of good points here gentlemen... less habitat and the increased desire to shoot the biggest bucks more often definitely seem to take the cake here.
I'd like to see a program that requires no more than 80% (more? less?) of a parcel be farmed... bring back the weedy, natural drainages, more crp... tell em it's for the bees, I don't care.... it's really sad driving across i-80 and seeing basically nothing other than bare farm fields. Spending time recently in northern Iowa showed me some great habitat, but primarily on public grounds. I didn't even find myself tempted to knock on doors because the best habitat was public! Clearly (to me), subsidization to protect habitat would be wiser than subsidization that encourages, (if not requires!) farming of sub-prime land.
I'd like to see a program that requires no more than 80% (more? less?) of a parcel be farmed... bring back the weedy, natural drainages, more crp... tell em it's for the bees, I don't care.... it's really sad driving across i-80 and seeing basically nothing other than bare farm fields. Spending time recently in northern Iowa showed me some great habitat, but primarily on public grounds. I didn't even find myself tempted to knock on doors because the best habitat was public! Clearly (to me), subsidization to protect habitat would be wiser than subsidization that encourages, (if not requires!) farming of sub-prime land.
Hardwood11
It is going to be a good fall!
I’ve analyzed the CRP program for years and would love to see a 10-20-30 acre option where the landowners design the program .
Example … 5 row trees in outside (L shaped) switchgrass/natives on interior with a food plot . A pond/wetland with limited cost share! (maybe a 2 acre block of conifer trees). Endless possibilities
15-20 year length… that habitat would probably stay forever on that farm !
madplotter
PMA Member
It sure feels like more full time farmers are becoming avid deer hunters and are locking up the timber pieces for themselves and/or their families. Main reason I'd say is that hunting and farming have both become more efficient and more of both can be done with less time invested. And as you pointed out, they clear their ground for production and then have the "connections" to access good hunting ground. Nothing wrong it, it's a free country but it is the current reality. I'd say many of social media hunters have fueled this for their own motives.
I am very thankful I was able to hunt the golden era before it became a legislative hot potato and where knowledge, land access, and quality equipment all came together at one time. IMO, it's a screwed up mess now. We should all be thankful for the folks that slug it out every year with a legislature full of low level thinkers, at least when it comes to conservation.
Last edited: