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Sighting in Muzzeloader..Confused

cornfedkiller

cornfedkiller

Member
Hey guys - see if someone can help me out here.

Girlfriend and I went to sight in our muzzleloaders today. Both shooting the same setup - Thompson Center Impact, Barnes Expanders T-EZ 290gr, and 100 grains by volume of Blackhorn 209 powder.

First shot with mine was way off, but then I got some decent groups, had it shooting where I wanted, then I decided to swab my barrel. Next shot was way high. Next shot after that (no swabbing) was back in the bullseye. Swabbed the barrel again just to see what would happen, and it was 6-7" high again. Shot one more without swabbing and it was in the bullseye again.

Then my girlfriend tried hers.. First shot for her with a clean barrel was about 7" high at 50 yards. Next shot was in the bullseye. Shots 3-5 were all within 2" of the bullseye at 100 yards (no swabbing).

Is this normal? And if so, I can't imagine leaving my barrel dirty from now until after muzzleloading season is a very good idea..

Anyone have any suggestions?

I switched to the Barnes bullets after reading a few horror stories about Hornaday SSTs and lack of expansion, and shooting a doe last year with the same size entrance and exit hole...but I don't remember having this clean barrel/dirty barrel problem last year..
 
I think it's all about determining what works for you and your gun. My routine is different. Shoot, wet patch, dry patch, load, shoot and repeat. Many order to shoot from a fouled barrel. The routine I use has always worked for me and my gun. Anytime you swab the barrel you are drastically changing the conditions within it, adding a variable if you will. It's all about keeping as many things the same as you can.
 
I always shoot my barrel dirty. Main reason is because the shot out of a clean barrel is just like you said way different and I don't want to have it sighted in for a clean barrel, miss in the field and then get a second opportunity with a dirty barrel. I always take a shot the day before the season I am hunting and then leave it fouled for the rest of the season.
 
bigbuckhunter88 said:
I always shoot my barrel dirty. Main reason is because the shot out of a clean barrel is just like you said way different and I don't want to have it sighted in for a clean barrel, miss in the field and then get a second opportunity with a dirty barrel. I always take a shot the day before the season I am hunting and then leave it fouled for the rest of the season.
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I have the same thing, especially on my TC muzzleloaders. No idea where the first shot is going...2nd shot is closer & after that they're all right in there. I leave mine dirty during the season too.
Don't necessarily understand it, but that's just what she likes, so I go with it!
 
When you are shooting BH 209, you do not need to swab the barrel until you clean it, I have shot up 35 times, and did not swab the barrel, it loaded the same on number 30 as it was on the first round.
Something you can try is, after you clean it, before you go and shoot it next time, run an alcohol pad down the barrel to get the cleaning oil out of the barrel, then 2 dry patches, then fire 2 or 3 primer to clean out the Breech plug and foul the barrel, load it up and shoot it, some muzzle loaders need a couple of fouling shot to foul the barrel, When I do this I found that I do not need to shoot a couple of fouling shot, and it is good to go.
 
One good thing you've got going for you is that you're using Blackhorn, so it's not nearly as corrosive to leave it dirty & it's a lot easier to get the gun cleaned up when the time comes.
 
Thanks for the tips guys.. I was thinking part of the reason may have been because the patches I ran down it were seasoned patches, so it kind of lubed the barrel. Alcohol and dry patches would probably affect the trajectory much less.

I was almost ready to go back to Hornady SSTs bullets.. I had great accuracy with those - not to mention they push down the barrel 100 times easier. Just nervous about the expansion issues I read about online (even though they get incredible reviews on cabelas, bass pro, midway usa, etc.)
 
cornfedkiller said:
Thanks for the tips guys.. I was thinking part of the reason may have been because the patches I ran down it were seasoned patches, so it kind of lubed the barrel. Alcohol and dry patches would probably affect the trajectory much less.

I was almost ready to go back to Hornady SSTs bullets.. I had great accuracy with those - not to mention they push down the barrel 100 times easier. Just nervous about the expansion issues I read about online (even though they get incredible reviews on cabelas, bass pro, midway usa, etc.)
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Yeah, seasoned patches might mess with things. I'd tend toward dry or alcohol if needed.

In regards to SST's, I got away from them because they were blowing up like grenades, not the lack of expansion you mention. But that was many years ago and I was pushing them kind of fast out of the Savage. I went to the XTP's, then lately been messing with the Barnes Xpanders.
 
couple of other bullets would be the Barnes T EZ's or the Hornady 452 250 gr Monoflex bullet, both with the Harvester black easy load sabots.
 
I wet/dry patch between each shot so I'm sighted in with perfectly clean barrel. Once there I've tested and found to be dead on for about 3 shots luckily. I will take time to clean with wet/dry patch in field if I shoot.
 
I started shooting the Blackhorn so that I wouldn't have to swab between shots.. I used to shoot Triple 7 and would have to swab all the time, and if I didn't, I would get major accuracy issues. I love that I don't have to swab between shots, I just didn't realize there was THAT much difference between a clean barrel and a fouled barrel.

I need to get out and shoot a little more, just need to save up for a while if I'm going to buy some more of those Barnes bullets!
 
I'm shooting 110 grains of black horn and a 250 grain Barnes. I've shot 3 shot groups out of a perfectly clean barrel between shots and then shot 3 without cleaning and they are all very close to the same spot out to 250 yards.
I hunt with a completely clean barrel and have never had any accuracy issues after reloading. I've shot my gun ALOT. I think maybe your seasoned patches are having more of an effect than the fouling in the barrel. Your also still in the break in stage of your barrel. Keep shooting it and you and your gun will get more accurate
 
I use Drop Dead Center bullets. Do an internet search and you will find them. I used to use Barnes. Toby Bridges did an article on the ones I use now so after reading it I decided to try them. They work great for me. I weigh my powder on a powder scale and make up my loads in the quick type loaders.

You wont hurt your barrel if you foul it then go thru your season and clean it when season is over. You can go a couple of weeks as long as your not using regular black powder. Your groups will always be better if you shoot with a fouled barrel, or if you clean your barrel after each shot but you have to do the same thing every time or you will get flyers.

Try those bullets guys you wont be disappointed.
 
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I have one more pack of the Barnes bullets and I will go out again next Saturday and shoot some more and do a little more experimenting.

I'll try swabbing between shots with just alcohol and dry patches and leave the seasoning patches at home. I'd like to see there be no difference between a clean and dirty barrel.

If not, I guess I'll have to go back to the Hornadys and sacrifice expansion for accuracy.
 
I'd ditch the seasoned patches and clean your ml just like you do a rifle or shotgun, that's another plus when using Blackhorn. Regular gun solvent then light oil on a patch when finished. I always fire a couple primers, like stated earlier before shooting with a clean barrel. My 10th shot isn't any different than my 1st shot using blackhorn and swabbing between shots with Blackhorn is a waste of patches and time. My guess is what ever you used on the barrels left an oil film which caused the bullet/sabot to not seal but after the barrel was dried out the sabot fit better if that makes sense. I will shoot mine a couple days before 1st season and won't clean it until I'm done, but i leave it in the truck or garage and don't take it into the house so it doesn't warm up. Blackhorn isn't as bad as 777 or pyrodex when it comes to drawing moisture. Sounds like once the barrel was dry you shot pretty good, otherwise I'd suggest trying some different sabots because TC's have a slightly tighter barrel say than CVS's do. I have a 45 Encore and use the Barnes bullets, but I throw away the tan sabots that come with them and use Easy Load sabots made by Harvester. The tan sabots were just a little thicker and I had a hard time loading them and they would not group in my ml.
 
cornfedkiller said:
I have one more pack of the Barnes bullets and I will go out again next Saturday and shoot some more and do a little more experimenting.

I'll try swabbing between shots with just alcohol and dry patches and leave the seasoning patches at home. I'd like to see there be no difference between a clean and dirty barrel.

If not, I guess I'll have to go back to the Hornadys and sacrifice expansion for accuracy.
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I'd check around and make sure you can still find those TEZ's before you shoot your last pack. I went to a sporting goods store recently and had the manager check with all of his suppliers, and not ONE of them had the TEZ's in stock.
 
Try to not shoot your gun with a "clean" barrel. I fire a primer prior to loading the gun, EVERYTIME after i run patches or do a full clean.
 
You guys probably won't believe this but I shot my old knight SS 45 cal with BH 209 and left it with a dirty barrel until around the middle of January and the barrel was all pitted up to the point, I just sold it. There were no pits in it before the season. I question how corrosive this stuff really is.
 
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