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STOP Shooting Does

Here's the trouble. U got pockets in lower 1/3rd of state that u'll never get lowered by giving out more tags. Those extra tags will further lower lands that have too few deer. I hunt a couple spots way overloaded and we can't keep up BUT there's far more pieces that r way below carrying capacity. U got the upper 2/3rd's of state that r decimated and then pockets on other areas that r too high. U got the DNR saying most of counties r too low now BUT a Governor who is an expert and deer biologist apparently and an insurance company that wants all deer dead. The large landowners who may not shoot enough does or the places where there's no hunting- u aint gonna fix this how they've been going at it. Everyone else suffers and there's no balance. Most of land I see is feast or famine for #'s and the land that is "famine" and decimated is land that gets pounded by folks who have no clue about carrying capacity, ratios, management, etc. Ignorance is killing deer hunting in many areas. The folks CAUSING that problem r NOT on this website, I assure u that!
 
My experience has been in the last 5-6 years.. seeing 20-30 deer a night with 4 or 5 big bucks.. now its more like an average of 4-5 a night and many more bucks that are broken up by mid november.. I shot 2 does this year and thats all I will shoot
 
Along these same lines, the number of mature harvested bucks HAS DROPPED at a higher rate than the over all harvest has dropped. It only stands to reason that if your harvest has dropped by 50 percent and the doe or button bucks harvest is now running over 60 percent of that reduced harvest then the numbers of antlered bucks harvested must also be way lower. We are now harvesting fewer antlered bucks than we did 20 years ago. Is that what we all really want?

Another very real thing to consider is the natural way of things is with in a population in dramatic decline that the birth rate of female reproducers dramatically increases. So those of you who are complaining about only seeing does do realize that this is probably the results of your actions, over harvesting does, in your area. I really don't understand why some of you think that a 1 to 1 ratio is ideal and better for a healthy deer herd. The way I see it that would have to lead to much higher stress rates on the mature bucks with more competition and more fighting and higher death rates due to that. It would also have to result in more yearling or "inferior" bucks doing more of the breeding because of the high stress on the other bucks, or am I missing some thing? With the higher female birth rate that means that out of 10 sets of twins born instead of the normal 7 or 8 bucks there might only be 4 or 5 bucks born. Given that the mortality rate for the first year is about the same for bucks or does, that would mean that out of those original 20 fawns that maybe only 2 or 3 bucks make it to the first year. NOT the best scenario for future deer hunters!

Regarding the 63 acre bean field, while I don't mean to pick on you, we need to put that in perspective. There was probably just as much damage or perhaps more done to that same field 20 years ago except that the prices were way different. Today $2200. of damage means about 137 bushels of beans at $16.00 a bushel. 20 years ago that same 137 bushels at $6.00 was $800., still nothing to sneeze at but also not something that made a farmer rant about killing every deer around before they ate him out of house and home.

Bottom line for me is we now have many more highly informed deer hunters, with much better equipment, buying way more licenses, but harvesting about half the deer we did just 5 or 6 years ago. How can that be, you ask? There is only one real and clear answer, there are only half the deer we had a few short years ago and it is only going to get worse every time we kill an extra doe or take part in an extra antler less deer season. Or at least that is my OPINOUN.:way:
 
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Very well written Bowmaker!

We are battling a multi headed monster that is Farm Bureau, high crop prices, our governor, and misinformed hunters. Your voices need to be heard, your faces need to be seen, and your own personal actions need to be monitored. Plain and simple, WE can either be part of the problem, or part of the solution. I chose a long time ago to be part of the solution, but when I attend the meetings and send emails and letters I certainly realize that there aren't very many other hunters and sportsman out there that are with me. Like Skip said, the guys on this site are the major minority when it comes to deer hunting and land management and unfortunately we are a small voice in the grand scheme of things. We need to back our DNR and join them and push them. They are a resource for us that we can use as an avenue to be heard. Join the IBA, IWF, and some of the other organizations and damnit, speak up people!
 
vman said:
Deer go to where the food is. Late season is a very poor time to be judging how many deer there are on your farm. It can be very misleading. If you have lots of food, you will draw a lot of deer in from along ways off.
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Vman: I agree, but the deer were there most of the year. There is a high spot for a natural creek crossing it looked like someone had herded cattle through it. It was the most heavy deer sign that I have ever seen and I have hunted several states and Canada.
 
Hardwood11 said:
Vman: I agree, but the deer were there most of the year. There is a high spot for a natural creek crossing it looked like someone had herded cattle through it. It was the most heavy deer sign that I have ever seen and I have hunted several states and Canada.
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How many did you shoot off of the farm and what were the neighbors doing as far as pressure. Lots of variables as to why they could be gathering on your farm now, food, pressure, cover, etc... but I guarantee it's not because the population as a whole is higher.
 
This whole thing is so clear IMO. Just look at the posts on here and what hunters are doing statewide. We have been pushed to the point where we are forced to micro manage our own properties and control our own populations. This verifies my whole point about us as a whole not being herd and not voicing our opinions and not being seen. Everybody cares about what is going on on their piece of dirt or their own area. IT"S BIGGER THAN THAT FOLKS, and until we realize that we are fighting for each other and the good of the whole state, not just a 100 acre piece of ground, than it is going to continue to get worse.

There are a few guys that get it, and they have started organizations to help us have a voice and some others have joined and are trying to make a difference. We need to stop being so narrow minded and realize that this is bigger than just a individual and his or her stompin grounds. I could go on and on, but whatever it all falls on deaf ears anyway.
 
Does

dedgeez said:
How many did you shoot off of the farm and what were the neighbors doing as far as pressure. Lots of variables as to why they could be gathering on your farm now, food, pressure, cover, etc... but I guarantee it's not because the population as a whole is higher.
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Personally I shot (0) because of the tag situation, some local people shot 2 and at least 2 were poached off the property, but they were bucks.

I am moving on as that property is sold and we close in a month, the new farm is closer to Des Moines. Looks like it has plenty of deer, not sure until I get some cameras out.

For the record, I am not saying shoot em up, just saying that each property is different and that some doe harvest is necessary. Personally I hate the late season rifle season, which I do not think is near Des Moines (correct?) I would rather see the DNR ease on tags rather than an all out war on does.
 
I've seen a decrease in Ringgold county, but there are still a large deer herd there. Like said before, winter time is a hard time to judge what the population is, but in the same sense, we have tons of habitat, tons of food, and do not pressure the area's we hunt. A lot of the "over wintering" deer that come in, in the last few years, about 50% are starting to stay, so we are shooting some doe's to keep everything in check. We're not looking to have some 1:1 ratio or anything, but there is also an economic balance that has to be met. Crop destruction is at an all time high on the place that I hunt, but nobody is wanting to go overboard on killing everything, but there needs to be a "few" thinned out.
 
nannyslayer said:
We're not looking to have some 1:1 ratio or anything, but there is also an economic balance that has to be met. Crop destruction is at an all time high on the place that I hunt, but nobody is wanting to go overboard on killing everything, but there needs to be a "few" thinned out.
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exactly

:way:
 
Why are 50% starting to stay Nanny? What does that do for the deer herd everywhere else ? If they start to stay their on your farm and you kill them off to be at acceptable levels .... what then happens to the levels at the farms they migrated in from ?

We as a group have to think bigger picture than just our areas we hunt.
 
THEBAD said:
Why are 50% starting to stay Nanny? What does that do for the deer herd everywhere else ? If they start to stay their on your farm and you kill them off to be at acceptable levels .... what then happens to the levels at the farms they migrated in from ?

We as a group have to think bigger picture than just our areas we hunt.
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Probably because of loss of habitat due to high commodity prices. Tons of acres of old pastures and CRP ground, and timber around us are now bean and corn fields. That or they are tired of getting chased around by pickup trucks and getting shot at 10 months out of the year.

We're going to continue to kill a few doe's. I'm seeing anywhere from 30-45 doe's every evening from the stand. If I shoot 8-10, and the remainder has an average of 1.5 fawns per doe's next year, the population is already higher next year than it is this year. We're not a, kill em all type hunter. But we do have to keep the herd in check, ON OUR FARMS.

As far as the neighboring properties, the owners would be just as happy if there were 0 deer on their ground. Plus, the shotgun hunters down there are the biggest threat to the deer herd, not us that put in thousands of dollars each year for habitat and food.
 
nannyslayer said:
Probably because of loss of habitat due to high commodity prices. Tons of acres of old pastures and CRP ground, and timber around us are now bean and corn fields. That or they are tired of getting chased around by pickup trucks and getting shot at 10 months out of the year.

We're going to continue to kill a few doe's. I'm seeing anywhere from 30-45 doe's every evening from the stand. If I shoot 8-10, and the remainder has an average of 1.5 fawns per doe's next year, the population is already higher next year than it is this year. We're not a, kill em all type hunter. But we do have to keep the herd in check, ON OUR FARMS.

As far as the neighboring properties, the owners would be just as happy if there were 0 deer on their ground. Plus, the shotgun hunters down there are the biggest threat to the deer herd, not us that put in thousands of dollars each year for habitat and food.
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Well said Nanny, keep up the habitat work. Its never a bad thing to have good habitat on a property. :way:
 
At least I know where I can come shoot a few does during 1st gun season then! I'm seeing fewer deer than ever this year and so my 3 doe tags will likely go unfilled.
 
the habitat loss is a major point... just around where we hunt all of the old over grown pasture is being converted into tillable, crp is coming out and nnot getting put back in, farmers are dozing whatever brush or trees they can just to get an extra few rows in.. also those of us that spend all spring and summer palnting trees, windbreaks, warmseason grasses, food plots etc.. if we shoot some does chances are theres a good reason because we probably have a pretty good handle on what the deer numbers are on our farms.. just a thought.
 
Trees and high deer numbers

hotshott2289 said:
the habitat loss is a major point... just around where we hunt all of the old over grown pasture is being converted into tillable, crp is coming out and nnot getting put back in, farmers are dozing whatever brush or trees they can just to get an extra few rows in.. also those of us that spend all spring and summer palnting trees, windbreaks, warmseason grasses, food plots etc.. if we shoot some does chances are theres a good reason because we probably have a pretty good handle on what the deer numbers are on our farms.. just a thought.
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Totally agree Hotshott... and I might add that you are planting trees, windbreaks, food plots etc...which is great, but if your doe numbers are too high, they will eat or rip up every tree, and wipe out your food plots. So there has to be some kind of balance.

Sure you can tube your trees, but sorry in areas of extremely high deer numbers it is very hard to get a tree to live unless you cage them which is impossible if you plan on planting 100 trees or more.
 
There is truth to the OP's point. We as hunter control how many deer tags are purchased. If we purchase less tags (and obviously shoot less does) the population will upswing back. But, I still like to take a doe early (get the jitters out) and my one buck. There were years I'd take 4-5 does and a buck. But now, I'm down to 1 doe tag and take a buck during bow season and maybe one during late muzz.

He's right, we control our own deer destiny, so to speak. They can open up tags everywhere, but if 'we' don't buy them, no one will shoot the deer. I'd like to see population numbers higher on public ground. I think if the DNR did a survey of the public land hunters they'd find the #'s (as we sit it) truly down a very large percentage.
 
I have WI experience in the CWD zone (earn a buck)... it can go from good (in regards to population), to okay, to bad in matter of 2-3yrs with a kill does mentality. Those that will complain most in 5yrs are the same guys that shoot 4,5,6 adult does a season... :eek:
 
WIWhitetail ...thanks for your input...tell these guys how quick it can go from ok to really bad. You have lived it and seen it...some of these guys while there intentions are great still dont see the large picture. Share some of the storys...I heard guys of guys going to such extremes of poaching a doe so they could get a dang buck tag.
 
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