Super Does?

[Kokomo Joe]

Another controversial issue.

Is it or isn't true that we have big bucks here in Iowa partially due to the fact that our doe population as a whole is older than a 21/2 yr old.
This directly reflects the outcome of when the dominant buck in your area breeds the oldest doe in your area, that this is the first generation of your genetic line. Only if you don't harvest him. And the reason for the explosion of bigger bucks that has happened is the same as the peas in the pod theory. That buck is eventually going to breed that dominant doe (she normally goes to him when she is ready anyway).

This fall, if you truly are into trophy management,shouldn't you cull those runty does (meaning body size)for the meat, and pass on that 150" ten point and concentrate on the mature 8's? Another question related to this topic--How many are just seeing one fawn with its mother this summer? I haven't seen the twins and triplets like I've seen in the past. Is it high mortality due to coyotes?

 

[Ollie]

I'm not sure if I agree with you Joe. An older doe is not necessarily genetically superior to a young doe. A fawn doe carries the same genetic material regardless of age and all of her offspring get the same genetic material passed to them. Doesn't matter how old the doe is when bred. One could make an argument that the smarter does tend to live longer and pass along some of that warriness to their offspring.

 

[Kokomo Joe]

Thanks for the comment john v. It's kind of an inside arguement that I have with another friend who deer hunts. I'm fascinated by the question of what factors produce the big boys--genetics, age, food sources, ect. That momma doe is always left out of the equation. She passes along her chemical make-up as well. Does anybody out there recognize a correlation? I feel like it can be a useful tool if we knew the truth. Thanks--Kokomo.

 

[okla hawkeye]

Are you talking about antler size or body size when you are refering to big boys? Do you think a doe has anything to do with antler size? I wouldn't think that is factor. I can see where a big fat doe might produce a big fat buck though.I dont know I am stupid about these things.

 

[Kokomo Joe]

I'm trying to find out if the doe has anything to do with antler size. Big boys I guess refers to a 150" deer or better. More controversey--I classify a "dominant buck" (usually a big eight or ten that has a harem of does that go to him to be bred) he beats up the locals and controls the does during the rut. A "superbuck" might get into the breeding pool but usually is a confangled mess of antler and highly nocturnal and most likely a loner. Both categories of these bucks are seen or shot during the rut because of the "traveling stage" running fence lines and checking doe beding areas to try to find that last doe in heat. Probably too much info----I better shut-up----Later!

 

[150 Class]

You're darn right the doe has something to do with the outcome of the genetics of her offspring. 50% to be exact. So, if the doe has the genetics for antler size or body size, she will most likely pass that on the her offspring. The biggest body isn't always the biggest antlered and the biggest antlered isn't always the dominant buck.

Look at us humans. on the average, usually, tall people have tall kids. Shorter people have shorter kids. There are exceptions.

If you breed that super buck with a dud doe, you're probably not going to have baby super bucks. Same goes for the dud buck that breeds the spuer doe. Her baby bucks won't be super bucks, but they will probably have better genetics and bigger racks than their dad did.

 

[DONW]

KOKOMO JOE-
150 Class is correct! And the genetics are in the doe the day she is conceived. The reasons for large bucks in Iowa, or anywhere, for that matter is: Genetics, nourishment and age.
Don

 

[DONW]

Oh, and I forgot to add that, no, it is not true that the partial reason for Iowa having large bucks is because your doe population averages 21/2 years of age. I'll get off and let someone else talk now.
Don

 

[Kokomo Joe]

Thanks for the feedback on this subject.

A lot of us" buck only" hunters, including myself, need to appreciate those "skinhead" does and practice deer herd management--not just trophy buck management.

 

[arrowsmith]

One of the factors for Iowa's larger buck population has got to be the timing of the gun season. Here in Minnesota we send our guns to the woods during the peak of the rut. Instead of passing on superior genetics our bucks are either killed or running for their lives. With Iowa starting in December the big boys get a better chance to chase the ladies.