Switchgrass question

[Daver]

I would like to follow Dbltree's good advice and frost seed switchgrass here in a month or two... the problem is I don't have those specific areas prepared the way he has described. They are still covered by standard brome grass. (Now I do have a few areas ready to go and killed down with Roundup but those are destined to be clover plots, not switch.)

Since there is no snow to speak of in my area, what if I burned an area here in the next couple of weeks to remove the brome and then frost seeded the switch? I know I would get competitive regrowth from the brome, but would the swtich at least get a start in that area?

OR Just forget the late winter burn idea and Roundup the brome a couple of times this Spring and then plant the switch?

OR Just do it right next year by killing the brome late summer/early fall and then frost seeding the switch next year?

 

[dbltree]

[ QUOTE ]
Just do it right next year by killing the brome late summer/early fall and then frost seeding the switch next year

[/ QUOTE ]

You would be much better off to wait Dave.

1) NO the switchgrass will not and cannot compete with brome on it's own...no chance at all.

2) You can burn, frost seed and then spray the regrowth with roundup at first green up...that can work but timing is obviously important.

The only problem is...if you don't get a good kill you can't respray a second time, where as an early Septemeber spraying would allow time to inspect the field and hit "missed" spots a second time.

3) If it's a spot where RR soybeans could be planted so you can spray it all summer and then seed next winter...that works very well also.

(I have a 4 row no-till corn/bean planter if you ever want to go that route...can be "costly" though

)

If it's next to the road though...that's a bad idea.

A complete and total kill of brome and fescue is the single most critical thing in establishing switchgrass and NWSG

Remember the golden rule...KILL KILL and KILL again...then plant....

 

[Daver]

Glad I asked, no switchgrass for this Spring I guess.

But I am going to be a brome killing machine later this Summer and we'll planting switch next year!

 

[Skully]

Bummer, I was thinking of throwing some seed down too. My brome has choked out most of my switch in my CRP. Every year there is less and less. Just a patch here and there. I did a burn to see if it would "re-generate" the switch but it didn't help much. I am sure though that my mid-contract mgt. contract involves inter-seeding switch into my existing stand. How does the NRCS expect this to be effective?

 

[dbltree]

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How does the NRCS expect this to be effective?

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate to say this but they are often stuck in the "cool season" mode and many don't have a clue what will work or won't when it comes to prarie grasses.

In your case Skully you need to be doing some very late spring burns...like May to set back the brome and encourage the switchgrass.

or

burn very early and spray the first green growth with Roundup.

then if you want to add some switch seed...do it next winter about this time. (I wouldn't add seed ahead of a burn)

As far as the NRCS is concerned...I do what I know needs to be done, when it needs to be done...but...

I tell them I did it when they wanted it done and how they wanted it done...and their none the wiser...

 

[Skully]

[ QUOTE ]


As far as the NRCS is concerned...I do what I know needs to be done, when it needs to be done...but...

I tell them I did it when they wanted it done and how they wanted it done...and their none the wiser...

[/ QUOTE ] Sounds like a plan!

 

[dbltree]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


As far as the NRCS is concerned...I do what I know needs to be done, when it needs to be done...but...

I tell them I did it when they wanted it done and how they wanted it done...and their none the wiser...

[/ QUOTE ] Sounds like a plan!

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously...I talked to them about mid-contract management and they said they won't be checking to see what is done.

So you can buy your seed during the time frame they require it to be done...turn in your bills (for burning, light discing etc.) and then just do the actual practice when the time is right

Let me know if you need help "torching" the place Skully...

 

[FarmlandQDM]

[ QUOTE ]
My brome has choked out most of my switch in my CRP. Every year there is less and less. Just a patch here and there. I did a burn to see if it would "re-generate" the switch but it didn't help much.

[/ QUOTE ]

like Dbltree pointed out ... I would bet you burned in March or April which would have invigorated the brome ... late May / early June will invigorate warm seasons grasses more effectively and severely set back cool seasons.

Switchgrass is one of the best habitats for holding and protecting mature bucks but from my experience in southeastern IA and northeast MO it also has a tendency to die-off, 10 to 15 years after establishment, even in well managed stands. I don't know if this is true with all variaties of switchgrass, I know Dbltree has had great success with cave-in-rock switch. The only theory I have is that perhaps in the stands I have seen die-back the seed source was of a more western origin that can not tolerate long term exposure to the humidity and moisture we have in Iowa. Don't know if that is why your switch died out Skully but that is one thing I would try to determine so if you go with switch again I would definitely search for another seed source that perhaps is better adapted to your area ... if you can find it.

 

[Skully]

[ QUOTE ]


Let me know if you need help "torching" the place Skully...

[/ QUOTE ]

Will do Paul, you do the same. I'm always looking for a reason to have a few cold ones and play with fire!

 

[dbltree]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Let me know if you need help "torching" the place Skully...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm always looking for a reason to have a few cold ones and play with fire!

[/ QUOTE ]

There may be some things more fun...but best not mentioned here...

Rob mentions the fact that some switchgrass dies out over time and no where is that more obvious then at the SE ISU Research station!

If one takes the time to read thru page 2 of my Switchgrass thread you can see why I encourage Cave In Rock in this area.

The switchgrass at the ISU station has been there for 20 some years and has been burned very early, every year without fail (the manager hates a mess...and he thinks the prairie grasses look "messy" in the spring

)

Even though he's doing everything wrong...the Cave In Rock Switchgrass has not only thrived but it has spread...into other plots (it appears by wind blown seed)

Most of the other varieties have either died out or barely holding their own.

Cave in Rock is the most dormant and difficult to establish...but the longest lived and most dominant once it's there.

I've found the same thing on my own place when I made the mistake of buying cheaper varieties thinking it would make no difference...

it does...

 

[ibohunt65]

I planted CIR this fall and can't wait to see how it does. I have a bag of Nebraska 28 left and was wondering if anyone had any experience with it in SE Iowa? Is it worth putting in the dirt or not? I think it is a shorter version than CIR.

 

[dbltree]

[ QUOTE ]
I planted CIR this fall and can't wait to see how it does. I have a bag of Nebraska 28 left and was wondering if anyone had any experience with it in SE Iowa? Is it worth putting in the dirt or not? I think it is a shorter version than CIR.

[/ QUOTE ]

You might mix it with a NWSG mix because it isn't very dominant.

Here's a pic of an older stand of Neb 28 which is mostly gone. It's been taken over by Little Bluestem...

I really can't say I see any switch in this pic...

Compared to Cave In Rock which has dominated and thrived!

Huge difference! Both plots over 20 years old, burned yearly.

I don't know what to tell you as far as what to do with it...but I'm glad I don't have it!

 

[ibohunt65]

Those pictures are exactly why I have the bag left and also the reason I planted several areas of straight CIR switch.

 

[Benny]

Alot of the Pheasant Forever Chapters have habitat specialists that might be able to assist you.

If you have a local chapter it would probably be worth a call.

Good Luck

 

[Muddy Fork]

Got my CIR seeded last week!